Ottawa may be the capital, but T.O. makes the decisions.
BUt all kidding aside, Marcoa, I've been to Montreal and the night life is nothing compared to here. It's a good place to go when you're 18 because of the drinking age, but other than that, the clubs are kind of cheesy. Old Montreal is very nice though.
I'm not much very familiar with Canada as i just moved in here 5 years ago but based on my experiences here, i would 100% agree with Marcoa's definition...but TO also has some great places to have fun if know how to spot them...
IVO..surely you jest...the Montreal club scene on St.Laurent is not matched anywhere in NORTH AMERICA. All stylish Europeanesque young people (such as myself ) walking aroung mingling...add the good looks of the french Canadian girls(however..my girlfriend is a fellow porker like myself ) and voila you have pure fun for the young people. Career-wise TO rocks...but to boring and that pathetic center-of-the-universe attitude is a large turn-off
I don't know, I guess you guys don't know the T.O. that I know. I've had a blast in T.O. and still do. There's so much to do, and there's a new night club opening every week, so you can't get bored.
I don't care much for the "French Canadians". I find a lot of them to be very arrogant and rude, once they find out you're not a "Quebecois".
I remember going to a cafe there, and the person working the counter spoke French to me. I told her I didn't speak it. I had to come up again, and even though we were the only people in there at the time, she spoke French to me again, knowing full well I didn't speak it. That was no accident.
But I do have the benefit of speaking Croatian, so I responded to her in my native tongue the second time. She seemed pretty annoyed by it, but I don't think she got the point.
But that comment about the night life not being matched anywhere in north america, come on, have you ever been to New York?
T.O. may have the "centre of the universe" attitude. But at least we know who are. We aren't posers. How pathetic a scene was it in 98 when all the French flags were out in Montreal and Quebec City. While I'm sure there was a lot of "real" French there, there was just as many wannabees. How pathetic is it to celebrate another country's success, as if it was your own(and they probably do think it was their own).
It's people like this that give a black eye to an otherwise beautiful city.
though I am 100% opposed to the quebecois politcal views....I have to say that English Canada are much more ignorant than we are here. We are clearly a bilingual country and I would bet any amount of money that Quebec has the most fluent French/English speakers whereas in TO and the rest of the nation very tiny minority. As for your 1998 comments...you would be very surprised at the amount of real French people (France) that live in Quebec. I work in a retail store and I tell you that at least 4 out of every 10 clients that I serve are franks.
oh yeah I must tell you 2 stories about Ontarionites
1. I used to play hockey, I rememeber going to a hockey tourney in smelly TO. The comments that I heard regarding our team where...pathetic.
"we'll beat these pansy frenchman"
Well the ignorance of Toronotonians paid off. Our team was a team of Portuguese, and italian immigrants. Perhaps these idiots should have tried speaking to us or better yet read the names on our shirts you morons...not to many Pilleggi or DaCosta francophones are there? I guess they thought we didn't speak english (when the dressing room language was english). By the way we won the tourney, beating some Manitoban team.
2. I drove down to TO with my friends a few years ago, needless to say we didn't stay long due to the blatant lack of class of the citiznes there and the pure raw boredom..no after parties and leaving a club at 2 in the morning is something unheard of here!
examples of the lack of class:
"Your from Quebec...did you vote yes or no?"
"D-O Y-O-U S-P-E-A-K E-N-G-L-I-S-H"
WITH WHICH i REPLIED:
"I A-L-S-O S-P-E-A-K F-R-E-N-C-H"
You have to remember something about the bi-lingualism. On a federal level, yes Canada is bi-lingual, but not on a provincial level. There's only one province that is officially bi-lingual, I'm not sure which one, but it's one of the maritime provinces, possibly New Brunswick. There's no reason why Canada as a whole should be bi-lingual. Quebec can have French as an official language, but why should that be the case with the rest of us? I was forced to learn French in high school and in elementary school. Why should I know it? It should be my choice, don't you think? It's always good to know more languages, and I didn't have a problem with learning the language, but I didn't have a choice in the matter, and I certainly should have.
As for your hockey story, sure you'll come across ignorant people, I don't dispute that. IMO the average "born and bred Canadian" is pretty damn ignorant. The only people worse are the Americans(and they are much worse). Being a team from Quebec, they obviously just assumed you were "French Canadians". The reaction you got is a result of the sensitive issues we face in this country.
The problem is that word "French Canadian" Now if you're a Frenchman who now lives in Canada, yes you are a French Canadian, but if you "just live" in Quebec you are CANADIAN and nothing else. You may be a "French speaking" Canadian, but you are certainly not a French Canadian.(keep in mind I'm not saying "you" as in Marcoa, it's just hypothetically speaking).
This is the reason that "Quebecois" aren't greeted with friendly smiles, instead are subject to a sort of "abuse", which they brought upon themselves. Another reason for this abuse is the fact that the official opposition on the federal level was a separatist party. How's that for a slap in the face and spitting on the flag so to speak?
Tell me what could the Quebecois possibly have against English speaking Canada. Is it the fact that we don't care to learn French? If so that's arrogance. Remember the "FLQ crisis"? Remember that idiot French president who came over and said "Vive le Quebec libre"? And that sea of idiot French wannabes cheering him on. How do you expect "English Canada" to respond to these things. When we see a bunch of idiots like Parizeau and Bouchard who want to take Quebec away from Canada? Those idiots would have referendums until they got a 50.00000000000001 vote in favour of independance, and then they'd do it, even though 49.9999999999 want to stay in Canada. To top it off they say they'll keep the Canadian dollar(another sign of pure arrogance).
An interesting fact: There are more Chinese speaking people in Canada than there are French speaking people. So they also have a claim to making Canada officially multi-lingual. The Quebecois would a hissy fit if they were forced to learn Chinese.
I think the "Quebecois" have given the rest of us in Canada plenty of reasons to dislike them. The worst thing about it is(and you may think this is an example of "centre of the universe" thinking) but the worst thing about it is that they are so dependant on us. Canada can do without Quebec, but Quebec can't do without Canada. They'd either join the STates, or try to join to the EU. But when they try to do that, the Indians won't let them take all of Quebec, because they're smart enough to know what Parizeau and Bouchard don't know, since they're blinded by their "nationalism" even though they have no "nation".
Maybe I'm getting a little bit carried away, but please keep in mind this is not directed at you personally.
no offense taken. I am not french nor am I a quebecois, I am a child of Portuguese immigrants and I have taken my fair share of comments from the quebecois.
I defend them because I live with them, work with them and yes some of them are my friends (though I would say that 85% of my friends are either porks or ****)
First of all this land we call canada was (okay it was inhabited by the natives first) was first colonised by the french. The english just came here and acted like the barbarians they are and slaughtered and instead of letting the french colonies live they tried to assimilate them thus destroying their identity and culture. Quebecois are different from the rest of canada, whether you want to accept it or not is your opinion. Different religion, mentality, and language...hell the education systems are different as well! If you go to NFLD or BC or MAN you will not notice much different in the outlook of those peoples (they all share that "I HATE QUEBEC" ATTITUDE).
About referendums....well asides from Quebec City no major Quebec area wanted to separte. You have those stupid un-educated farmers in the "Cote-Nord" of Quebec..of course they want to separate..but when you talk to the cultured francophone (I have yet to meet a cultured anglophone) living in MTL he wants to stay togther and last time I checked it was YES 2 NO 0
About the french president...that was DeGaulle...big big big idiot...he had no point in saying that and should have been banned from Canada.
About FLQ...you think they are bad..wait till Stockwell Day and Preston Manning team-up...those psychos will KILL quebec....
About the language issue...I am 100% firm on my view that EVERYONE in this country should speak 2 languages...French and English. If it was like that...these problems we have today would not exist. Think of the advantages..we go to war with the states and they tap our airwaves and hear us speaking french...we totally throw them off guard
for the record...I like Canada a lot, I don't love it, and I hate Quebec, but since I live here I defend it. I don't prescribe to their politcal bullshi_t...because thats all it is...bullshi_t. I am an allophone, a child of portuguese immigrants and once my studies are complete I will move to Portugal where I will live my life.
Oh yeah...when I get those smelly Torontonians at my store they treat me with such disrespect it just boils me up inside!
I don't think the problem will ever be solved. It might die down at times, but it will always resurface. I don't hate Quebecers, it's just that some things rub me the wrong way(the things I talked about).
But that being said, I'm an immigrant (or D.P.D)) myself, so it's not that big of a deal to me either. But I do follow politics quite a bit, so I have an opinion on a lot of things that don't necessarily mean much to me.
Look at the bright side, the relationship isn't that good, but it could be much worse.
I have visited both cites. They are very different. My impressions are as follows .....
Toronto ... A bustling city with a significant immirgant population. The city is a bit untidy maybe becauce the populace has not accepted it as the own. Every one seem to seek their own group and settle into their owm comfort zone. Many of the so called persons who think its "the centre of the universe" probably do very little civic work and most likely feel intimidated by other who believethat they belong.
Montreal .... This is a city with a bit of History and culture. This city on my visit was quite clean, which I think reflected the pride in it by its population. Many of the people were pleasant and kind. Idiots and assh#les live every where. Some people are proud of their heritage and it gives them a sense of belonging. Understanding that point, would allow many to assimilate and appreciate the culture of others.
[email protected] Night clubs do not make a city good. Its citizens and their tolerance levels do.
Therefore, I suggest you try and make an effort to GROW UP!!
When you decide to visit the Caribbean, let me know and I can show you a Trini lime.... Sand , Sun & Fun
Trini, it's not about growing up, we're not arguing like little kids, we're just comparing the two cities. I'm sure Trinidad is very nice, but you should visit Croatia. Land of 1000 islands with the bluest waters in the world.