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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Soccer Sports equipment Light Ball Line


TBH what Thiago Motta says is not much different from what we already see in other teams (the goalie is the first to build, the forward is the first to defend). What is original (reading the formation from left to right or viceversa) looks more formal than substantial, but I might be wrong and miss something. What is your opinion?
 

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looks like a 433
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
lol, it probably is.
In completely different disciplines, I have met people who wanted to give their own formal description of things, but they really added nothing from a substantial point of view, simply made those things more difficult to understand to other people who met them for the first time.
 

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looks like a 433
Yep.

I think the most interesting development these days is seeing teams attack in 2-3-5, 3-2-5 or 3-1-6 formations and defend in entirely different set-ups (often 4-4-2). Always having players occupying the half spaces and wings and with plenty of support and players back to either recycle or not get caught out.

Think of Liverpool with Robertson and TAA on the wings, Salah and Mane in the halfspaces and Firmino up top. Central midfield is very workmanlike and there for defensive stability and support. Meanwhile Man City tend to use the inverted wingbacks as midfielders in possession and have De Bruyne and Silva as free 8's, with the wingers staying wide.
 

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Yep.

I think the most interesting development these days is seeing teams attack in 2-3-5, 3-2-5 or 3-1-6 formations and defend in entirely different set-ups (often 4-4-2). Always having players occupying the half spaces and wings and with plenty of support and players back to either recycle or not get caught out.

Think of Liverpool with Robertson and TAA on the wings, Salah and Mane in the halfspaces and Firmino up top. Central midfield is very workmanlike and there for defensive stability and support. Meanwhile Man City tend to use the inverted wingbacks as midfielders in possession and have De Bruyne and Silva as free 8's, with the wingers staying wide.
Guardiola's 4-1-4-1 formation is imo a godsent for peeps who like to make hypothetical all-star XIs. I made this post 3 years ago about this

Damn, I just wanted to open this thread. Well, here it goes. Guardiola's 4-1-4-1 formation at Man. City just about seemes the best possible formation to include legends in a modern formation, and nobody is using this yet for all-time XIs but I think it will spread like wildfire. Check it out:

Great article explaining the formation:

Guardiola, the 4-1-4-1, and Tactical Flexibility

The defense will be the obvious:

Goalkeeper: Lev Yashin, the greatest keeper ever

Left-back: I always preffered R.Carlos to play brazilian football and it makes especially sense seeing how R.Madrid dominated football the last4 years with atacking full backs but to balance out what extreme offense will be up-front, I'll pick Paolo Maldini

Right-Back:
This is the hardest position the choose and the least important since either way it's the "weak" link. It's either Djalma Santos or Thuram.(should discuss more on this one or open a thread)

Center-back: Bobby Moore, rated higher by football historians than Baresi, but the Italian is a fine choice aswell(what's above the defense is the most important thing to discuss here anyway)

Center-back: Franz Beckenbauer(simply the greatest defender ever)

Ok now lets start assigning the roles.

In the Fernandinho/Schweinsteiger, I pick Lothar Matthaus hands down the best player ever in this respective position. He has trieless stamina and far better defensive abilities than what Guardiola has fitting for an All-time XI. He was even rated as the best defender in the world at old age. It's nice because in the flexible total football spirit my team has, he can switch his place with Beckenbauer easly even in games.

In the Nolito/Sane role, I obviously pick Cristiano Ronaldo, Europe's greatest player ever and best left-winger ever.

In Kevin de Bruyne's role, I pick Johan Cruyff and he should fit like a glove. Nicknamed the Total Footballer, Cruyff was praised as a complete player and "conductor of the team". "Pythagoras in boots" will have the same atribution De Bruyne has at City, to get the best of the others. Eric Cantona - "He was at the heart of a revolution with his football. If he wanted he could be the best player in any position on the pitch."

In David Silva's role, I pick Diego Maradona. Not much to add, here. Maradona will have the role to unlock defsnes with his dribbles and passes.

In Sterling's role I pcik Lionel Messi. They have been likened as players and I think the role suits Messi perfectly.

In Aguero's role I have the greatest player of all time, Pele. Enough said.

I think this is simply the best XI anyone can make and at the same time respect the positions of a modern formation with compatible players.

As you can see I'm stretching it big time and the result is a crazy offensive team, but it's still not quite ridiculous like the all-star teams you usually see made by various associations. At least here you can rationalize that there's no genuine anchorman (so you can pick a CM with strong defensive qualities) and D.Silva+De Bruyne look much more like an AM partnership than Kroos-Modric/Xavi-Iniesta, so you end up with the option of stacking up the formation with all the best attacking players and pretend it's somewhat balanced :D
 

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lol, it probably is.
In completely different disciplines, I have met people who wanted to give their own formal description of things, but they really added nothing from a substantial point of view, simply made those things more difficult to understand to other people who met them for the first time.
That's the vice of many experts in a given field, particularly in the social sciences. Intellectuals generally don't have much to say that is original, so they restate the obvious in the fanciest terms. If they didn't and kept it intelligible, they would just be random smart peeps, whereas to deserve the tag "intellectual" you HAVE to be unintelligible to mere mortals 😁
 

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It's a 4-3-3, the most common tactic in use.

It's compact through the middle, which is a hallmark of practically 95% of all Serie A teams ... ever.

Meanwhile, he sits second from last with the worst defensive record in the league. So his revolution doesn't seem to be achieving much.
 

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View attachment 74353

TBH what Thiago Motta says is not much different from what we already see in other teams (the goalie is the first to build, the forward is the first to defend). What is original (reading the formation from left to right or viceversa) looks more formal than substantial, but I might be wrong and miss something. What is your opinion?
I googled this waste of time idea, and this diagram is misleading. He claims to play a 2-7-2 with standard notation, as in 2 CB, not 2 left, 7 central and 2 right players. But either way, it's either a very standard formation or a dumb CM idea that will send Spezia to Serie B.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The problem with former top players is that most of them get a chance when they retire and want to try a career out of the pitch, either as coaches or sporting directors or other positions inside the club. The flops can be brutal, at the expense of the clubs of course. I'd never try a former player without a (succesful) experience in some minor clubs.
 

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Jobs in football are for people who have been in football, so naturally managers and 'sporting' or 'football' directors are mostly former footballers. There is little place for those from outside of football. Those like Sarri, Sacchi and Mourinho are rare.

For clubs like Spezia, it might be worth a try - they are likely to go down regardless, and at least with someone like Motta they might be able to attract some better footballers in the meantime.

And you have to remember, most of the managers who have become successful were once upon a time ex-footballers that a club took a chance on. Ancelotti for instance wasn't ready to manage Parma or even Juventus afterwards, and only really established himself at Milan - but gladly, someone did take a chance on him and he's given a lot back to football.

Plus, in Italy they at least have to go through a fairly rigorous preparation at Coverciano. This isn't the case in a lot of other countries, where ex-footballers are fast tracked through their certification, and pass solely due to their reputation.
 
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