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World Class Player
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The Higher Education Bill second reading division was only won by the government by a mere five votes. The abstention of the (only and only) Scottish Conservative MP, Peter Duncan, and the subsequent Point of Order issued by the entire Opposition, has led to the West Lothian Question rearing its ugly head.

Scotland has a population of 5.5m people, who form roughly one-eleventh of the population of the United Kingdom. However, Scottish constituencies are represented by no fewer than 72 MPs, who form roughly one-nineth of the House of Commons. Until the Scotland Act of 1998, there was a minimum number of seats (to reflect the absence of a Scottish devolved body), yet there are no requirements any more.

Scotland has its own Parliament now. Should its MPs vote in the House of Commons on issues not affecting Scotland? And should its number of seats be cut to reflect its population, especially in lieu of its own Parliament?
 

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Nasty Woman
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Free Scotland!

Kilts for all!


:bagpipe music here:
 

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World Class Player
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Discussion Starter #6
Tinto said:
What Bastin says makes sense, (geez that felt funny), but Sean Connery is just too cool to contradict. :)
Sean Connery opposes Scottish MPs voting in the House of Commons, but, then again, he wants an independent Scotland (read "he's crazy").
 

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Whats wrong with independent Scotland? I am not saying it shoudl happen or not, as I dont know what the ppl of Scorland think and want (for me, thsi is always teh most important issue in these debates) but if happens - what's wrong with it? I really cant see it. For the people who live in Scotland I mean.
 

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What wrong with a federated system with regional legislative bodies and a national one? Why should one preclude the other. It works in Germany, the US, Italy and Spain (to a smaller extent)
 

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What fangul said.
It doesn't make sense to have all of the British provinces (is that what you call them? I've never been clear on that actually) have a measure of autonomy except England. If Wales has it's own elected autonomous institutions, if Scotland has autonomy, if N. Ireland has a devolved government (well, in theory at least) - why not England?

Just to add to fangul's point, Italy and Spain are not really federated states. Spain has a whole bunch of regions with differring autonomy levels (assymetrical regionalization) while Italy is a "regional state" - somewhere in between a centralized state and a federation (or so this was last time I read anything of the subject). Now I don't exactly what level of autonomy Scotland and Wales actually have - so maybe the "regional state" can fit the UK better than a true federation?

Federalism also works nicely here in Canada (more of a true federation than the USA).
 

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World Class Player
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Discussion Starter #10
bono said:
Whats wrong with independent Scotland? I am not saying it shoudl happen or not, as I dont know what the ppl of Scorland think and want (for me, thsi is always teh most important issue in these debates) but if happens - what's wrong with it? I really cant see it. For the people who live in Scotland I mean.
Are you mad? The Scots don't want it, and it would not be economically viable.
Andrija PFC said:
Is that what you call them? I've never been clear on that actually
England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are nations. However, since Wales is a part of England, the definitions are screwed up.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Scotland's extravagent budget is funded by funds from taxpayers in the southeast of England. Almost all of Scotland's trade is with England. Scotland's economy is very primitive. Scotland has few natural resources. Scotland's workforce is ill-educated. Scotland has no large airports. Scotland has no top quality harbour facilities. Scotland has no stock exchange or other large financial institutions.
 

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HEY, WHA' HAPPENED?
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Scottish MPs have every damned right to vote on English matters, just the English MPs have had the right to vote on them since 1610 or what ever awful year the Act Of Union was signed by the spineless cowards that were the land-owners.

The English Tories voted for Poll Tax to be "tested" in Scotland, which has hardly been known as a Tory hot bed, since, well the last 50 years anyway. So whilst I think tuition fees are wrong, & that the vote was for Tony Blair's leadership rather than the actual topic being discussed, I think the Scots MPs had every right to vote. However, they voted utterly wrong.

Plus in theory this bill could eventually come into play in Scotland as well, so it does indeed affect us.

My local MP, David Stewart, is a Labour member & he supported the act, as he does every Tony Blair bill as he is a spineless coward & an opinionless 'yes' man will be recieving a strongly worded letter of my disapproval, I'd recommend all other Scots whose local MP voted for the bill to do the same.
 

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Nasty Woman
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If Scotland is lacking in education, why is Prince William going to university there? It can't be all bad.
 

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IOW they are missing all those things that economic theory retrogrades like you believe are infrastructural antecedents to economic development, rather than concomitants...and you parade yourself as some money wunderkind hahaha, rich
 

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HEY, WHA' HAPPENED?
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Bastin said:
Scotland's workforce is ill-educated.
Ah goodie, it's back to normal business regarding utterly disagreeing with the ever ridiculous Bastin:)

Proof please.
 

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cam said:
Ah goodie, it's back to normal business regarding utterly disagreeing with the ever ridiculous Bastin:)

Proof please.
This is gonna be great....

And so it begins boys...Bastin, you've done it.... :howler: :howler:
 

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HEY, WHA' HAPPENED?
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Flo said:
This is gonna be great....

And so it begins boys...Bastin, you've done it.... :howler: :howler:
I've done nothing except ask Bastin to show prove for his ridiculous & insulting claim.
 

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cam said:
Ah goodie, it's back to normal business regarding utterly disagreeing with the ever ridiculous Bastin:)

Proof please.
Proof is that 9/10 of his landscapers are Scottish. The other is Lili.
 

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Scotland's extravagent budget is funded by funds from taxpayers in the southeast of England. Almost all of Scotland's trade is with England. Scotland's economy is very primitive. Scotland has few natural resources. Scotland's workforce is ill-educated. Scotland has no large airports. Scotland has no top quality harbour facilities. Scotland has no stock exchange or other large financial institutions.
You're just sore because the Scots still haven't stopped laughing from that time the Queen tried to actually command em to do something.
 
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