Xtratime Community banner

1 - 20 of 83 Posts

·
Pepe the Beast
Joined
·
4,493 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This will be the thread where we can talk about the man. He is possibly one of the most frustrating managers in football today, neutrals would agree I'm sure.

He is still a legend for Arsenal, though I do question whether he will go down as one in the football world. His accomplishments with our club mean we will always have atleast some love and respect for the guy. There is a point though, where you have to start asking the once unthinkable questions.

This can be a thread where we discuss our frustrations, joys, confusion, and agreements with our coach.
 

·
Ze Don
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
I love Arsene. But he's lost the plot, 4 years in a row, not a single trophy and its almost always been because of his stuborness and his refusal to spend. I don't want him to spend big and go for Kaka or something, i'm willing to take signings like Nasri, Hleb etc as long as i don't see players like Denilson, Diaby, Fabianski, Song, Bentdner and Silvestre at the club. I can take a couple of them for the bench, but the rest are just too poor to be playing for a club of our stature.

Furthermore, players like Almunia, Toure and Adebayor should not be starting for us, i'd take them as second choice players though.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,822 Posts
I'd give him 'till crimbo '09, to see what he's done in the summer transfer market and where that's taken the team in terms of league and cup performances. He should really earn the right to manage Arsenal like he did at the start of his tenure, and not rest on past accomplishments.
 

·
Pepe the Beast
Joined
·
4,493 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
stubborn in the transfer market is one thing.

Stubborness by not playing Adebayor, Almunia, and for some reason Djourou. He is ruling like a ruthless dicator, not allowing players to speak up. (perhaps I exagerate a bit :) )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,979 Posts
he has my full support, he has never gone into a summer with this much pressure on him, and to see the way we conceded goals to day and struggled to finish our chances i fully expect him to respond.

after all, in jan/feb when we couldnt buy a goal for our lives he signed arshavin, arsene had hope in this set of players but he is realising this was misplaced, and thus i am of no doubt he will make changes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,441 Posts
Arsenal will never axe AW...Stop wasting your time on that notion as IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Arsenal needs to get bigger, faster and more athletic in all departments, without dropping skill level. Thing is it's not easy to find those type of players. .

Tactical changes are also required. We don't put enough pressure on the ball carrier, allowing them to get deep into the proverbial danger zone without being stopped or their passing lanes cut off. That is not simply a personnel issue rather we must fundamentally change the way we defend.

Frankly my biggest issue with AW is not money, I could handle money not being spent if AW had real number 2 at his side, if our team defence was on par with the standard that is expected at a club such as Arsenal, if we had real captain in-place post Vieira etc

These are areas that AW as manager can and must improve upon. I remember watching the Villa game when we blew the 2-0 lead at Villa park and our team defence was totally and utterly shambolic on the day, don't even get me started on the 4-4 calamity vs the Scum. We have seen far inferior sides i.e Fulham and West Ham produce superior defencive displays than we have in far too many games. No doubt we all admit this Arsenal side is hardly the best we ever seen dawn the red and white but there really is no excuse for some of the abject opportunities and goals we have conceded time and again this season. That has nothing to do with our transfer kitty and it's an area AW has to come to grips with if we're ever to win another trophy.

As for money...Frankly I have no idea what the truth is, some say the money is there and others say otherwise. My take is look at our history.

It's popular to lay all the blame at AW but history is clear Arsenal have rarely been a club to go the extra mile to be it transfer fees or wages. The dismantling of the 71 double side and the Irish Arsenal side of the late 70's. The malaise of the early 80's until David Dein brought the club from a Victorian era of thinking to the 20TH century. AW's conflicts with the board over Cashley Cole and Patrick Vieira wages.

The Fiszman, Dein, Kroneke, Usmanov mess hardly gives Gooners the impression that winning trophies is the top priority for the powers that be at Arsenal. FFS no CEO for nearly a year, really that is something that should never occur at any club let alone the Arsenal.

Again I hardly have any inside info so I' m reluctant to go over the top with the theory that AW is simply an idealist and a miser. I'll stick to questioning him on tactics, squad selection, squads mental fragility, lack of defencive nous, the tangible areas he can improve upon regardless of the money he may or may not have at his disposal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,999 Posts
No good looking back at history Tunis. The moment that the club moved to The Emirates was the moment that made past history irrelevant. The reality now is that Arsenal rely heavily on the "corporates", the fans who have heavy pockets and can throw thousands of pounds in watching the team. These fans pay the highest ticket prices of any in the country and they are very demanding. The honeymoon period is now over when first moving to the Emirates and Wenger explaining that a policy was in place. Well the years have ticked by and these fans are getting impatient. No-one is saying that the team is entitled to win anything but the gap atm between Arsenal and the other top sides is too big. In a way it is not a bad thing because these fans will put huge pressure on the club to show more ambition in the transfer market in the coming years. The club rely heavily on the "corporates" and they can't afford to lose them. Cheaper season ticket holders can be replaced but not these fans that pay the top dollar.

The moment the team moved to The Emirates the "quaint" Arsenal we knew was gone forever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,441 Posts
No good looking back at history Tunis. The moment that the club moved to The Emirates was the moment that made past history irrelevant. The reality now is that Arsenal rely heavily on the "corporates", the fans who have heavy pockets and can throw thousands of pounds in watching the team. These fans pay the highest ticket prices of any in the country and they are very demanding. The honeymoon period is now over when first moving to the Emirates and Wenger explaining that a policy was in place. Well the years have ticked by and these fans are getting impatient. No-one is saying that the team is entitled to win anything but the gap atm between Arsenal and the other top sides is too big. In a way it is not a bad thing because these fans will put huge pressure on the club to show more ambition in the transfer market in the coming years. The club rely heavily on the "corporates" and they can't afford to lose them. Cheaper season ticket holders can be replaced but not these fans that pay the top dollar.

The moment the team moved to The Emirates the "quaint" Arsenal we knew was gone forever.
Than blame the board.

Either the money is there and AW refuses to spend or the money is not there and it's more of the same. Either way it's the boar that run the club not AW. If the money is there to be spent why does out board not pressure AW to spend it? If we have the resources to match Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool than why does our board not only not pressure AW but bend over backwards to grant him a contract extension?


Arsenal board have never demanded trophies, that mentality is non existent. The Fiszman, Dein, Kroneke, Usmanov mess hardly gives Gooners the impression that winning trophies is the top priority for the powers that be at Arsenal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,999 Posts
Yes but the pressure from the fans will in the end.

They can't afford to lose the fans that pour so much money into the club.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,441 Posts
Yes but the pressure from the fans will in the end.

They can't afford to lose the fans that pour so much money into the club.
Only time we tell but the powers that be at Arsenal and AW need to have a series of in depth discussions and map out a clear, concise and effective strategy for the summer. How steep is AW's "war chest"? whom can we realistically acquire? whom should we sell? etc etc

Bottom line no more of the Nasri and AA23 saga's we can't spend 5 damn weeks working out deals for every potential acquisition. Frankly I'm not optimistic, just do not believe the Arsenal board feel trophies is a top priority. We hope to win but simply challenging is considered a decent campaign.
 

·
Ze Don
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Arsenal will never axe AW...Stop wasting your time on that notion as IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Arsenal needs to get bigger, faster and more athletic in all departments, without dropping skill level. Thing is it's not easy to find those type of players. .

Tactical changes are also required. We don't put enough pressure on the ball carrier, allowing them to get deep into the proverbial danger zone without being stopped or their passing lanes cut off. That is not simply a personnel issue rather we must fundamentally change the way we defend.

Frankly my biggest issue with AW is not money, I could handle money not being spent if AW had real number 2 at his side, if our team defence was on par with the standard that is expected at a club such as Arsenal, if we had real captain in-place post Vieira etc

These are areas that AW as manager can and must improve upon. I remember watching the Villa game when we blew the 2-0 lead at Villa park and our team defence was totally and utterly shambolic on the day, don't even get me started on the 4-4 calamity vs the Scum. We have seen far inferior sides i.e Fulham and West Ham produce superior defencive displays than we have in far too many games. No doubt we all admit this Arsenal side is hardly the best we ever seen dawn the red and white but there really is no excuse for some of the abject opportunities and goals we have conceded time and again this season. That has nothing to do with our transfer kitty and it's an area AW has to come to grips with if we're ever to win another trophy.

As for money...Frankly I have no idea what the truth is, some say the money is there and others say otherwise. My take is look at our history.

It's popular to lay all the blame at AW but history is clear Arsenal have rarely been a club to go the extra mile to be it transfer fees or wages. The dismantling of the 71 double side and the Irish Arsenal side of the late 70's. The malaise of the early 80's until David Dein brought the club from a Victorian era of thinking to the 20TH century. AW's conflicts with the board over Cashley Cole and Patrick Vieira wages.

The Fiszman, Dein, Kroneke, Usmanov mess hardly gives Gooners the impression that winning trophies is the top priority for the powers that be at Arsenal. FFS no CEO for nearly a year, really that is something that should never occur at any club let alone the Arsenal.

Again I hardly have any inside info so I' m reluctant to go over the top with the theory that AW is simply an idealist and a miser. I'll stick to questioning him on tactics, squad selection, squads mental fragility, lack of defencive nous, the tangible areas he can improve upon regardless of the money he may or may not have at his disposal.

That's right. It's also damn depressing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,323 Posts
This is simple really. His quest to reach the top with a squad that is young and has no experience hasn't worked. He has had a few set backs with certain players deciding to move on, but he did ultmately decide to look internal rather than looking to see who was available on the market.

Now that his quest to reach the top with a limited squad has failed, he has to look externally and bring in players that are already proven and can play the Arsenal style like Arshavin. Not players that are experienced and over the hill like Silvestre, but players that are proven and are quality.

I want him to sign players that shows that Arsenal are intent on winning the league and not just being happy coming fourth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,225 Posts
I want Wenger to stop reacting to teams and start playing our best formation regardless of the opposition. Today we played scared the same way we played scared in our FA cup and CL semis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,999 Posts
We hope to win but simply challenging is considered a decent campaign.
Ah but they didn't really challenge did they? That's what really should be in all their minds. EPL campaign over by Christmas. A favorable CL run until we bumped in to Man.Utd. Another favourable draw in the FA Cup until we meet Chelsea. The EPL is the yardstick not a CL run. The board and Wenger can in no way feel that we are "challenging" for anything atm unless fourth is the new first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,441 Posts
Ah but they didn't really challenge did they? That's what really should be in all their minds. EPL campaign over by Christmas. A favorable CL run until we bumped in to Man.Utd. Another favourable draw in the FA Cup until we meet Chelsea. The EPL is the yardstick not a CL run. The board and Wenger can in no way feel that we are "challenging" for anything atm unless fourth is the new first.
You don't need to convince Gooners mate.

FA cup and CL semi finals=a decent campaign to the board. There is simply not the demand for trophies at the top one sees at the likes of Barca, Man Utd, etc etc. It's in our DNA as a club, one trophy every 6 years would suffice for our board. Perhaps things will change with Kroneke/Gadzis and the demands of new age Gooners but frankly I'm not optimistic. Seems the board is far more concerned about selling their shares and turning a handsome profit rather than what's occurring on the pitch.
 

·
Pepe the Beast
Joined
·
4,493 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
He has had a few set backs with certain players deciding to move on
It is more than likely that this will happen again.

I am betting about two of Cesc, Adebayor, RVP, Gallas, Toure, and Clichy will leave. For Wenger to keep all of them it will be a miracle. This means that on top of the two or so experienced players (DM and CB) that I agreed we need, we would have to bring in players with equal skill to replace any of the above who leave. Otherwise a similar situation to last summer will happen. The club as a whole cannot take another season like this one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,690 Posts
It is more than likely that this will happen again.

I am betting about two of Cesc, Adebayor, RVP, Gallas, Toure, and Clichy will leave. For Wenger to keep all of them it will be a miracle. This means that on top of the two or so experienced players (DM and CB) that I agreed we need, we would have to bring in players with equal skill to replace any of the above who leave. Otherwise a similar situation to last summer will happen. The club as a whole cannot take another season like this one.
Cesc is a European Championships winner and will defo want to be seriously challenging for titles and CL's every season, at his age I fully expect both Barca and Real to be interested. Adebayor thinks he's top drawer and will be looking for someone to provide wages to match (close the door on your way out). RVP seems awfully injury prone and also thinks he's top drawer (he's good but not that good). Gallas has not brought the maturity/experience he was supposed to, he's done the opposite (l'egoiste). Toure is just pissed off at having to play with Gallas and getting so little respect. Clichy will stay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,323 Posts
Gallas will only leave IMO if someone comes in with a serious offer for him. Wenger has made it quite clear that he still rates Gallas and has stuck with him at times when Gallas wasn't too popular.
The board turned down Toure's transfer request so I don't think he will be going anywhere.

I also doubt whether Cesc will go anywhere this summer. I do think though that if nothing is won next season then he is defiantly gone. Especially with him likely to figure for Spain in the World Cup next year, I can see the next summer getting really silly in terms of Cesc leaving is concerned.

Van Persie is a maybe because of his contract offer. He has said that if the team shows that it can win things that he will stay. Over the past few weeks the team has shown that it isn't good enough, so with van Persie I don't know. I hope he does stay because he is quality and can win a game on his own.

Wenger is right though, he has to make sure that he keeps the team together first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28,216 Posts
Lacking a monster in the middle of the park, Lassana Diarra anyone?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,720 Posts
Toure's transfer request was half-hearted, he's not going anywhere. He's a pillar and a reminder of our best days as a team and at least he still knows how to win wearing an Arsenal jersey not to mention Toure is the most experienced player in our team besides Gallas. You don't sell seniors thats just ludicrous and any of you who want Toure's head are just stupid as fvck. He's had to deal with so many fvcking makeshift backlines and partners its ridiculous. Try throwing John Terry or Rio in Kolo's boat and see how they adapt.

People so seriously underrate Toure its funny because he's still one of the best defenders in the world and it disgusts me fans keep turning on this guy.

Anyway, I watched AW's post match interview and he doesn't at all sound confident of what he saw on the pitch so I know he's making changes.

More players like Sagna and Arshavin this summer please AW in the DM, CB, and GK roles.
 
1 - 20 of 83 Posts
Top