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Juventus wiretaps raise questions
Football Italia

Purported wiretapped conversations claim to show Juventus President Andrea Agnelli knew ultras leaders “had killed people” as early as 2014.

The Bianconeri President has been called to testify at the Anti-Mafia Commission after the FIGC deferred him and the club to the Disciplinary Commission for knowingly interacting with members of organised crime.

Agnelli protested his innocence, insisting he and his staff were unaware that these leaders of the fan groups had any links to the ‘Ndrangheta (Calabrian mafia).


Today The Huffington Post published what it claims are unreleased elements of the investigation, in which FIGC prosecutor Giuseppe Pecoraro states “not only was Agnelli aware of the structural rapport and favours allowed to the groups of organised fans who had associations with crime, but also allowed such conduct.”

The Huffington Post also published what it claims are unreleased extracts from two wiretapped telephone conversations President Agnelli had with Juventus security chief Alessandro D’Angelo.

In 2016 he confirmed that he had met “them,” but the big scoop – if confirmed – is that in March 2014 Agnelli said this of ultras leader Loris Grancini: “The problem is this – he killed people.”

D’Angelo replied: “He sent people to kill.”

This would suggest Agnelli and D’Angelo were aware that the people they were dealing with were involved in organised crime.

In other conversation, D’Angelo tells chief of fan rapports Alberto Pairetto that he is “afraid” of being involved in a criminal inquiry, because “everyone knew the family Rocco Dominello came from.”

D’Angelo also said in another wiretap that “I spoke to Rocco (Dominello) on the phone, he told me he is sending loads of text messages to the Coach (Antonio Conte).”

Today, Agnelli’s lawyer Luigi Chiappero urged the Anti-Mafia Commission and FIGC to release all the relevant information, assuring they had nothing to hide and welcome the opportunity to explain their side of the story.

:)
 

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Juventus wiretaps raise questions
Football Italia

Purported wiretapped conversations claim to show Juventus President Andrea Agnelli knew ultras leaders “had killed people” as early as 2014.

The Bianconeri President has been called to testify at the Anti-Mafia Commission after the FIGC deferred him and the club to the Disciplinary Commission for knowingly interacting with members of organised crime.

Agnelli protested his innocence, insisting he and his staff were unaware that these leaders of the fan groups had any links to the ‘Ndrangheta (Calabrian mafia).


Today The Huffington Post published what it claims are unreleased elements of the investigation, in which FIGC prosecutor Giuseppe Pecoraro states “not only was Agnelli aware of the structural rapport and favours allowed to the groups of organised fans who had associations with crime, but also allowed such conduct.”

The Huffington Post also published what it claims are unreleased extracts from two wiretapped telephone conversations President Agnelli had with Juventus security chief Alessandro D’Angelo.

In 2016 he confirmed that he had met “them,” but the big scoop – if confirmed – is that in March 2014 Agnelli said this of ultras leader Loris Grancini: “The problem is this – he killed people.”

D’Angelo replied: “He sent people to kill.”

This would suggest Agnelli and D’Angelo were aware that the people they were dealing with were involved in organised crime.

In other conversation, D’Angelo tells chief of fan rapports Alberto Pairetto that he is “afraid” of being involved in a criminal inquiry, because “everyone knew the family Rocco Dominello came from.”

D’Angelo also said in another wiretap that “I spoke to Rocco (Dominello) on the phone, he told me he is sending loads of text messages to the Coach (Antonio Conte).”

Today, Agnelli’s lawyer Luigi Chiappero urged the Anti-Mafia Commission and FIGC to release all the relevant information, assuring they had nothing to hide and welcome the opportunity to explain their side of the story.

:)
Cute :laugh:

I see interisti are desperate for another Calciopoli to win something again huh? :dielaughing:
 

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Well if you think that ultras of other clubs in Italy are part of church choir then you're naive... this is just a storm created by the media and wasn't Thohir interviewed too as part of corruption scandal in Indonesia? :surprise:

Obviously Suning has nothing to do with this, I'm referring to interisti as fans hopeful of another Calciopoli....
 

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Agnelli was not 'talking to the mafia'... one of the ultras is being investigated for links with the Calabrian mafia, even though he had a clean record... most ultras in Italy are associated in one way or another with different gangs...
 

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I separated the subject from the serie A thread. Please try to understand calciopoli and this tickets scandal have in common just the involvement of Juventus but are two completely different matters. Andrea Agnelli , not a random guy, shitting his pants because he is forced to talk to "a man who kills" should tell it all on what we are talking about. He is the victim here.
 

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I understand that they are different issues.

From the article, the most that Agnelli can be done for is the knowing interaction.

Even then, don't most ultra sets have organised criminal elements?

Was he shitting his pants? The article suggests that the biggest fear wasn't of the Mafia but being associated with the Mafia. I'm only going on this article though.
 

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Let's wait for the updates on the matter. The different newspapers jumped on their favorite bandwagons and it is not easy to make a proper opinion right now.
Its really about the dangerously outdated power and hegemony of the ultras since ages that doesnt fit modern football anymore. Try to hold clubs ransom for their fanhood with merc and tickets, heavy prize for their fanatic support by blackmailing clubs for tickets and merc touting, by basically threatening clubs with worse security/improper behaviour that gets them fined, thats basically been why someone like Agnelli felt necessary to make them quiet with more tickets, that he felt this was necessary as solution says too much of their hold on things, serious enough way before you even consider the heavy criminal influence that may come in when organised crime sees the advantageous play in this and want piece of it. Even see this as their main job? Come the heck on. I applaude passionate supporting but get a grip. Minority of them ruin it for the rest of them. I undertand some who have genuine issue with measures by the league or club (raised prices etc, or more boring athmosphere) but shouldnt take it too far.


Our stadio has directly banned some ultras (these losers have actually had turf knife war over curva for the financial gain and status of it, Vikings ultra in particular), but the security of the stadio is enough of a joke that they can get in again (season holding tickets is loose enough in terms identity checks, been there twice to see it myself, the checks). Its mostly policing issue since authorities handle banned fans part of it. Since poorly paid stewardess in stadio can easily be influenced by guys like that they need serious security force to hold things in check. Thats why measures like the tessera card and such effects more regular fans in other sections then the curva ultras, since they generally find ways to sneak in elsewhere. Tho actual convicted criminals cant and shouldnt get in, as would be mafia or organised crime assiocates would be, litterally cant get tickets if you have substantial record, even if ultras have allways have had semi criminal behaviours to a point, its why it becomes more silly when media makes it seem these stands are filled with mafiosi. It seems defenitely more like they try to make power play into the ticket touting scheme for profit, tried (or succeeded, lets what full investigation says) to take over ultra group or make deals with one for the sales of these tickets.



But people hear Juve and mafia and just think thats simple enough in what becomes a silly smear campaign. When its been clarified enough times club officials are witnesses to the closed criminal investigation on the ticket scandal and nothing more. The sporting discipline part of is what Agnelli and lawyer already admitted to, it was improper to give these utlras more tickets then allowed to calm them down, its hopeless when you feel pressured enough that you need to do that. The whole structure of this aspect of the system defenitely needs to be overhauled. Club like this shouldnt feel held back fans to the point they get threatened with fines and ban by a minority of its own fans unless they give them more tickets/influence. Agnelli has generally been doing a good job with this aspect, as evidenced by the new stadio. But its defenitely more difficult then we think. Thats why even if I dislike him, I have to applaude someone like Lotito, he has held a hardline and mostly succeeded in holding back or completely off stadio, the criminal grip the hardass ultras of Lazio had on the club.
 

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The situation per se is obvious and is the one you described in the first part of your post.
What is not clear is whether Agnelli is lying or not, but we will know it as soon as we listen to his voice in the wiretaps. Does it really change the scenario? Not in courts perhaps, but it would be another hard blow to the image of Italian football as a whole.
That doesn't justify the CEO of FIGC who tells us that the Board which is responsible for the investigations on the activities of mafias should investigate on other matters. Not at all. People trying to convince us the image of Italian football is saved by sweeping the dust under the carpet are not the kind of people who should be managing Italian football, if we want it to have some credibility.
 

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If he said that he is completely wrong. But I listened to his full press conference when this started and he didn't say that then tho. Talking more about the difference between being witnesses into serious case and the witch hunt rash judgements in media or FIGC in jumping to conclusions to try to find anything to pin on Juve when the investigation they gave witness statements to didn't see them as anything then that.


Did you read what one of the members of mafia commission said? Absolute joke level if this is allowed in a serious state organization. He basically said he is heavily biased against Juve, Napoli fan who hates Juve and know they are criminals by default pretty much because of Calciopoli. How impartial is that? If he doesn't get fired or suspended it's ridicolous. Zero objectivity.


The wiretaps is a joke in how they revealed, in media in tiny bit, not through the investigation. And just transcript bit they choose, and when they, the paper, are asked to provide evidence of said transcripts they refused. Was even asked by a politician / senator to show the transcript instead of just allude to it, give suspicion. But they refused. Defenitely not how a serious matter is conducted.

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Did you read what one of the members of mafia commission said? Absolute joke level if this is allowed in a serious state organization. He basically said he is heavily biased against Juve, Napoli fan who hates Juve and know they are criminals by default pretty much because of Calciopoli. How impartial is that? If he doesn't get fired or suspended it's ridicolous. Zero objectivity.
The problem here is that we (the Italians) cannot choose the men in our Parliament. We choose a party and each party has a list of names. As a consequence it is not uncommon that idiots no one but their party wants (for reason only they know, but we can define "political") sit in the Parliament. These idiots are also members of boards such as the board we are talking about in this thread. The re is no way he is kicked out of the Parliament, but hopefully there is a chance he is kicked out of the board.

The wiretaps is a joke in how they revealed, in media in tiny bit, not through the investigation. And just transcript bit they choose, and when they, the paper, are asked to provide evidence of said transcripts they refused. Was even asked by a politician / senator to show the transcript instead of just allude to it, give suspicion. But they refused. Defenitely not how a serious matter is conducted.
Yeah, it is a joke in how they are revealed, but it is not the first time something like it happens. That politician doesn't live on Mars and knows how things work. The newspapers are hardly reliable.
 

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Yeah I understand things can work bit differently in a Italy, idiots can be everywhere regardless of status and get politicians pandering to a point, but he is on friggin anti mafia commission board and spews partisan filth like he is Napoli ultra airing his conspiracy theory, instead of a serious objective take on things. It shouldn't be a joking matter when it pertains to organised crime. Baffling. Don't expect consequences like his entire political profession, but get idiots like this away from actual substantial task like this.


And yeah the other politician who questioned media's use of transcripts isn't naive, and probably pro Juve (guessing not sure). But he is completely right in saying show what you have not just allude to it to drive an agenda, and it works because only thing media needs is the words Juve and mafia and little else of substance.


This is not just football too, in Grand sceme of things it's small time in society compared to real matters, but how does tabloid sensationalist media get wiretap from official state mafia investigation?

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