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The Messiah!
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151 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
We are witness to probably one of the weakest generation of left backs in Brazilian foortball. The best left back of the past years in Brazilian league has been an above 30 years old player - Kleber, and no outstanding younger prospect in the making yet. How do you rate the players of other Brazilian top teams like Santos, FC Sao Paulo, Gremio, Cruzeiro etc. by the way ? I can't make up my mind. If I miss some serious names please let me know and I will add them! Under 30 players only!

the obvious candidates:

1. Filipe Luis (25)

He already should have played this World Cup that would have been a very useful experience but life is not fair and Filipe suffered a serious injury already in January. On club level he looked like a promising player though so lets hope he will continue there when he will be able to play again expected later this year [unproven but promising]


2. Michel Bastos (26)

Well I actually like him as a player because he is an ellegant guy with some nice ball touches but the World Cup proved that it is always a risk to play him out of position. He has been reliable to play against weeker opponents as a left back but the first World Class wingers he had to face (Snejder and Robben) explored his weekness. A decent back up though [risky]


advanced candidates:


Marcelo (22)

Sadly he both failed in National team and Real Madrid to establish himself as a reliable left back and turned into a useful but not great winger so far.

Andre Santos (27)

another left back turned into a winger, not reliable, and not as good as Bastos.

Fabio da Silva (20)

time is against him as he is playing at a club with one of the better left backs around (Evra), might become a starter in 2 or 3 years so he might join the 2014 World Cup squad taking the last flight. Will be pretty unproven though.


conclusion:

Filipe finally could solve the left back problem - if he recorvers well and knows how to perform in yellow.
 

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The Messiah!
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151 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Seems to be crap.

Our Cruzeiro supporter DarkwingDuck said he is really weak in defence.
 

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Cachorro
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18,741 Posts
2. Michel Bastos (26)

Well I actually like him as a player because he is an ellegant guy with some nice ball touches but the World Cup proved that it is always a risk to play him out of position. He has been reliable to play against weeker opponents as a left back but the first World Class wingers he had to face (Snejder and Robben) explored his weekness. A decent back up though [risky]
To be fair, Bastos grew more and more confident into his role during the WC; he was solid against Chile's dangerous rightwinger Alexis Sanchez, and was doing very well against Robben too until he got a yellow card and Dunga moved him upfield - it was Gilberto who failed to contain Robben, not Bastos. Overall Bastos was one of the few players who performed convincingly, and I'd personally like to see him in the NT again. Filipe Luis seems to be the best candidate to compete with Bastos for the #6, and Andre Santos is a dark horse in this race (but Mano's familiarity with his style may give him an edge). I just don't trust Marcelo defensively, though I certainly hope he proves me wrong.

I honestly don't think Brasil's leftback situation is as dire as some people say; I'm much more concerned about who will be our DMs and striker. We have several good names for the DM, but we still don't know how they'll perform for the NT.

And most disturbingly, I don't see ANY convincing young Brasilian striker around yet. Pato is pretty lightweight, I fear that Andre (ex-Santos) will disappear in Dynamo Kiev, and Alan Kardec (Brasil's #9 in FIFA's 2009 U20 World Cup) is physically strong but rotting away in Benfica's bench may not be the best way for him to carve out an NT spot. We may very well find a way for our attack to function without a more "physical" #9 (it IS possible), but that's definitely a position where we'll need to test new players in the coming years. :undecide:
 

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Bernard > Messi
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2,687 Posts
Actually you're wrong. The only thing bastos did against Robben was foul him from behind constantly. He, deservedly, received a yellow card already in the first half and if he didn't play for Brazil he would get a red card in the second half on the faul that originated Holand's first goal. Only after the first goal that Dunga took out Bastos...

Watch the video here:
http://globoesporte.globo.com/temporeal/futebol/02-07-2010/holanda-brasil/#vejavideo

(clique em "mais lances" daí vai no primeiro gol da holanda e do lado esquerdo da tela mostrará o vídeo do gol da holanda e o galvão falando da falta do bastos que ele seria expulso. O sneidjer cobra a falta pro Robben o Robben devolve e ele cruza. Por sinal os caras tavam parados esperando a barreira, pena que no vídeo não mostrou. no youtube deve ter.)

So yeh, Michel Bastos was the responsible for their first goal and if the ref had cojones he would get a red card on that foul because he couldn't stop robben without fouling him and fouling him hard...

The second goal was from a corner kick that Juan stupidly gave to Holland because he had the control of the ball and could sent it to the side...

Gilberto sucks but he didn't do as bad as Michel did against Robben.

Btw, I couldn't find the # of fouls he did on Robben but Found this:

Das 20 faltas cometidas pelo Brasil, 8 foram em cima de Robben
At least 6 were done by him because I counted. So no, he wasn't doing well against Robben.


Also during the WC he did absolutely nothing, our left side was simple dead. He doesn't know how to play there and mano knows that so I don't even feel the need to bash the stupid players that Dunga chose I just don't want to see them anymore in the team because of people's "failing memories". Not talking only about you cause, Yeh, I heard many journalists saying that Bastos was shutting down Robben but Dunga took him out and they scored 2 goals on gilberto...
 

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Bernard > Messi
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2,687 Posts
I honestly don't think Brasil's leftback situation is as dire as some people say; I'm much more concerned about who will be our DMs and striker. We have several good names for the DM, but we still don't know how they'll perform for the NT.

And most disturbingly, I don't see ANY convincing young Brasilian striker around yet. Pato is pretty lightweight, I fear that Andre (ex-Santos) will disappear in Dynamo Kiev, and Alan Kardec (Brasil's #9 in FIFA's 2009 U20 World Cup) is physically strong but rotting away in Benfica's bench may not be the best way for him to carve out an NT spot. We may very well find a way for our attack to function without a more "physical" #9 (it IS possible), but that's definitely a position where we'll need to test new players in the coming years. :undecide:
I agree with this. We can live with a medriocre left back, as long as he knows how to play as a left back, but we can't live without a great dm and a great striker IF mano really wants to put the team to play on 433 formation (4231)

We need to find a great DM ASAP.

About the strikers you mentioned I agree.. Kardec sucks hairy balls and André is a mediocre/good player that was lucky to be on Santos on the right moment... He'll disappear there.

Anyway, I think he'll be our best choice for the Olympic Games; other than Pato.

If Pato gains muscle mass then he would be our best option.
 

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Rei Brasileiro
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8,569 Posts
Actually you're wrong. The only thing bastos did against Robben was foul him from behind constantly.
Actually, I thought the ref was being RIDICULOUS that game and calling preschool age fouls on us. Most times Bastos did not foul Robben AT ALL. Including the gol

So yeh, Michel Bastos was the responsible for their first goal and if the ref had cojones he would get a red card on that foul because he couldn't stop robben without fouling him and fouling him hard...
ESPECIALLY the foul that led to the gol. That was a CLEAR dive by Robben and ref mistake. I cant find the clip because no one has highlights of this mess. But we were robbed(ned) in that play.

Also, Robben suffered all the fouls because he was the only player who knows how to dribble in that team + he's a ball hog + he's a diver.
 

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Cachorro
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18,741 Posts
Actually you're wrong. The only thing bastos did against Robben was foul him from behind constantly. He, deservedly, received a yellow card already in the first half and if he didn't play for Brazil he would get a red card in the second half on the faul that originated Holand's first goal. Only after the first goal that Dunga took out Bastos...

Watch the video here:
http://globoesporte.globo.com/temporeal/futebol/02-07-2010/holanda-brasil/#vejavideo

(clique em "mais lances" daí vai no primeiro gol da holanda e do lado esquerdo da tela mostrará o vídeo do gol da holanda e o galvão falando da falta do bastos que ele seria expulso. O sneidjer cobra a falta pro Robben o Robben devolve e ele cruza. Por sinal os caras tavam parados esperando a barreira, pena que no vídeo não mostrou. no youtube deve ter.)

So yeh, Michel Bastos was the responsible for their first goal and if the ref had cojones he would get a red card on that foul because he couldn't stop robben without fouling him and fouling him hard...

The second goal was from a corner kick that Juan stupidly gave to Holland because he had the control of the ball and could sent it to the side...

Gilberto sucks but he didn't do as bad as Michel did against Robben.

Btw, I couldn't find the # of fouls he did on Robben but Found this:



At least 6 were done by him because I counted. So no, he wasn't doing well against Robben.


Also during the WC he did absolutely nothing, our left side was simple dead. He doesn't know how to play there and mano knows that so I don't even feel the need to bash the stupid players that Dunga chose I just don't want to see them anymore in the team because of people's "failing memories". Not talking only about you cause, Yeh, I heard many journalists saying that Bastos was shutting down Robben but Dunga took him out and they scored 2 goals on gilberto...
I didn't say Bastos committed no fouls (although, as WFA pointed out, many of the fouls that were given were dives), or that he was flawless. But I thought he did well overall... and I definitely don't agree that the only thing he did against Robben was foul him from behind, come ON.

Michel isn't a perfect leftback but he plays the role competently, with the advantage of being useful in more than one position. I agree that Michel didn't lock down the #6 yet, but I do think he established himself as a decent alternative for a 4-man backline. I trust him in a 4-man backline much more than I trust Marcelo, for example.
 

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Bernard > Messi
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2,687 Posts
Actually, I thought the ref was being RIDICULOUS that game and calling preschool age fouls on us. Most times Bastos did not foul Robben AT ALL. Including the gol


ESPECIALLY the foul that led to the gol. That was a CLEAR dive by Robben and ref mistake. I cant find the clip because no one has highlights of this mess. But we were robbed(ned) in that play.
:happy:Are you serious, William? Don't force me to download a torrent and upload all bastos' fouls on robben, specially the on that lead to their goal because it was a clear YELLOW CARD Foul. Please:lazy: The ref was going to give him his second yellow that's why Dunga rushed to substitute him for gilberto because he knew michel bostas would get red-carded...

What made people believe it was dives was because after each foul the WARRIORS would complain with the ref and with Robben. The mediocracicratas were infuriated because they wanted robben to accept their tackles on him without diving...

Also, Robben suffered all the fouls because he was the only player who knows how to dribble in that team + he's a ball hog + he's a diver.
The thing is, he didn't even had time to try to dribble and dive... Most of Michel Bostas' fouls on Robben were from BEHIND. He was shitting on his pains every time Robben received the ball he would go try to anticipate the pass Robben would protect the ball and he would hit Robben's leg.
 

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Bernard > Messi
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2,687 Posts
I didn't say Bastos committed no fouls (although, as WFA pointed out, many of the fouls that were given were dives), or that he was flawless. But I thought he did well overall... and I definitely don't agree that the only thing he did against Robben was foul him from behind, come ON.
Ok, what else he did? How many balls he stole from Robben? The only thing he could do to stop Robben was fouling him from behind.

accentuating a foul to make the ref. blow the whistle is part of the game. Brazilians should be the last ones to complain...


Michel isn't a perfect leftback but he plays the role competently, with the advantage of being useful in more than one position. I agree that Michel didn't lock down the #6 yet, but I do think he established himself as a decent alternative for a 4-man backline. I trust him in a 4-man backline much more than I trust Marcelo, for example.
Really? Useful in more than one position? Really grinch?

Anyway, even Marcelo would look a great defender in a team playing with 3 volantes against the likes of north korea, Cost D'Ivorie, Portugal and Chile...

Na primeira vez que ele enfrentou um bom ponta direita ele se cagou todo...

If Mano wants to play with a 4231 formation then we can't use Michel Bostas in the left back but as I said Mano wont even consider him because he doesn't like laterais like him.
 

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The Messiah!
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151 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
by the way .. anyone interested to open some threads to discuss the other positions ?
 
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