Xtratime Community banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,455 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Its obvious that recently we have got in to a terrible form and our manager just isnt up for the task. So some of us here have started to hope this form continues so Ranieri will be gone sooner than later. But what concerns me, is that are you sure, the one who replaces him, is gona be better? And i am not talking about management skills here.

Deschamps left cause of different views with management (and not enough say in transfers). So the management went for a coach who doesnt make much noise and who they can have control over. Thats why the transfers business is going like it really is going. A proper coach would have his say and demanded better players than free transfers aka Mellberg and Knezevic.

So instead of just replacing Ranieri with Conte or Vialli, we should replace the Giglis and Blancs with men like Ferrara. People who care, not just run business.

Seriously if Ranieri leaves (what i think might not actually happen that fast, cause the management is happy enough to have a coach they can manipulate) we need to get in someone who has balls. But with this management, they will just get the next "dummy".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,535 Posts
You make valid points, but the problem is more of the same is not going to do us much good. Ranieri is not a winner, the team is playing abysmally because there is no strategy in place, and the squad is inherently flawed as well, giving us very little to look forward to. Ranieri has to take the responsibility first and foremost for the failure to adequately reinforce, because he's responsible for the results on the pitch.

It's true as you said the root cause of our problems is an inept management, and they are the ones that need to go for us to really pursue a new direction befitting of our club's stature. Secco is already under a lot of criticism, and i think it's only a matter of time before Juve's shareholders start calling for his head. Blanc and Gigli, well as long as they're not meddling with the club in a detrimental way, i couldn't care less about them. If we got good replacements for Secco and Ranieri we'd be well on our way, but obviously the management have their own agenda.

I would just add that one of the major reasons the management have had a reprieve is because of how well we did with limited resources last season. If they were to replace Ranieri with another lackey, they'd be just writing their own dismissal letters. The point is that having a coach who is in the pocket of the management and does not stand his ground, will always be a recipe for failure. I knew the minute we signed Knezevic, Poulsen and didn't get rid of Molinaro that this season had a good chance of going sour. Those are not the type of players that will bring you to the next level, and Ranieri on some level as well must be either incredibly delusional or incredibly arrogant to think he can fulfill our objectives this season with such players. Btw, don't get me wrong, i like Poulsen for example, but it's clear that he was never an alternative to someone like VdV or Alonso. That was a slap in the face of the supporters, and honestly if the results continue to go pear shaped, i'd try to organize a boycott or something to show the fans are serious about dissatisfaction with how things are being deal with. Of course, the real sway and clout is with the Italian Juventini.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,239 Posts
The management are nothing more than cheapskate nobodies in the football world. They're trying to make a name for themselves by not taking any advice, not showing any respect whatsoever to the players who are loved by the Juventus faithful, and astonishingly not showing any remorse whatsoever for the mistakes they have made. Gigli, Blanc and Secco are in charge, and this is our reality now.

However, that doesn't mean we have to support them. I side by people such as Deschamps, people such as Ferrara and Lippi, along with the captain. The players and staff who have loved this club for a long time and have guided us through our toughest moments should be respected and have our support, not a bunch of big business football neanderthals such as those who control the club. I believe that anybody who supports the management now, or in the past, are a bunch of blind "yes men," much like Ranieri. More people need to speak out against the direction of this club because we're going nowhere; a few of us happened to see this coming.

Now, we could either laugh off suspicions of trouble by saying the usual "we're doomed" like some do, or we could discuss how to fix the problems and the utter lack of respect for people who had a part in the history of this club. I've never seen so many bad decisions, so much horrible play, and such a lack of respect for club legends in my entire life. Hell, we needed Boniperti to act as a consultant to renew the contract of David Trezeguet. Such a fact should make your brains pop up "red alert" signs across your vision spectrum, because trouble renewing contracts with players who love the club and have been here for a while should NOT be an issue.

I don't know exactly what is going on, but it's clear this management is making decisions that are destroying the morale of the club and destroying us as a world power in football. Not using the exploits of our leaders throughout history is very shameful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,270 Posts
Before we sack Ranieri, we should think about who is available to replace him. Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of good choices out there at the moment. Prandelli and Spalletti are options but are already employed. Ferrara has some coaching from Lippi but I think he is too green at the moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
Frank Rijkaard would be our best option at this point, he did do great things at Barca. A Champions League and two consecutive La Liga's should count for something. At least he has proven himself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,988 Posts
Gasperini! He is an ex-Juventino. I think he was with our Primavera but never played at senior level for us. I think he coached our Primavera too. Anyway, they way he has Genoa playing is just great.

He is the most realistic and appropraite option. Prandelli is unattainable at the moment. In Spalletti, I see another Ranieri, except for being so tactically inept. Manicini? I'm not too sure about that one. He seems like a loser to me. His ex-Juve past, our recent close relationship with Genoa and the fact that they are not as ambitious as say, Fiorentina, make him a more possible option.

A high pressure, fast and direct, yet not long ball style that would suit us perfectly. Kinda like how Juve was playing last year when the team was at its best. The defence is very compact an organised as well. If we could play the way Genoa play except with our players instead, we would be very difficult to stop.

I hope he wouldn't want to bring back the Juve rejects though. :scared:
 

·
Outstanding Post of the Year 2007
Joined
·
2,487 Posts
...So instead of just replacing Ranieri with Conte or Vialli, we should replace the Giglis and Blancs...
So why don't you just go ahead and replace them...oh i forgot, you have no say in the matter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,639 Posts
what about zoff?
yes i am just throwing a name, but he can bring back the face of Juventus and i never thought he was a bad a coach.
 

·
MVP
Joined
·
8,990 Posts
Here, here!

Cobolli believes in Juve Scudetto
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/oct28w.html

Despite Juventus’ stuttering start to the season, President Giovanni Cobolli Gigli still believes they can win the Scudetto.

“This is not the moment to make plans, but to get back into a position where we can focus on the Scudetto again,” said the chief.

“All is not lost, we are coming off a good week and the tournament has levelled out thanks to the many outsiders getting results.”

The Bianconeri have narrowed the gap from the Serie A leaders to five points despite an epic injury crisis.

It is their first real title push since their demotion in the Calciopoli scandal in 2006 and this evening the club went over the accounts in a shareholders’ meeting.

The last year has seen Juventus run at a loss of over £16m, but they consider that to be very nearly a success.

“Juve are close to breaking even, which is good considering before going into Serie B the club lost on average between £22m and £32m,” explained general manager Jean Claude Blanc.

“The path we have taken is to improve sporting results by focusing on youngsters and containing costs. This is the only approach we can take.

“If Jorge Andrade’s injury had not knocked £5.5m off his valuation, the situation would have been even better. Considering we were not in the Champions League, it is a good result.”

The Old Lady is also set to start work on building a new stadium and announced the demolition of the Delle Alpi will begin in three weeks.

The new arena should be ready in May 2011, getting rid of the unpopular athletics track and reducing capacity to 40,600.

-------------------

I respectfully, disagree. This is just professional PR, to increase the team, fans, and public morale and intimidate your opponents. Perhaps psychologically, it's good to say something like that. But I won't for a minute be deluded into thinking we can achieve the Scudetto this year...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,535 Posts
What's frugal about overpaying for players that are not good enough for the club?

Have we really gotten our money's worth for the 121m euros we've spent over the past 2 years? Of course not, Gigli is talking out of his ass.

He's just trying brush our terrible meracto under the carpet of fiscal responsibility, it's bogus and Gigli is just showing he's another incompetent dipstick we need to get rid of.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,360 Posts
“Juve are close to breaking even, which is good considering before going into Serie B the club lost on average between £22m and £32m,” explained general manager Jean Claude Blanc.
Is this correct? I thought you were balancing the books and even having a profit usually. or was this because of Giraudo's "creative" accounting?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,219 Posts
So instead of just replacing Ranieri with Conte or Vialli, we should replace the Giglis and Blancs with men like Ferrara. People who care, not just run business.
To build a good football side you need money. Simply "caring" doesn't earn you money. But running your football club like a business and exploiting football related business opportunities earns you money. There are only two alternatives to that: a) going bankrupt or b) having a billionaire as your owner. We all agree that a) is not option, and unfortunately Ferrara is no billionaire. Ironically, we are in fact owned by a family worth billions, but they don't consider our club as a toy but as a business. If you want to go the "caring" vs. "business" way you have to do that at the owner level not at the management level.

Replacing Gigli and/or Blanc with Ferrara would probably change nothing to the better. Ferrara can't create money out of thin air and he is not a business man. From a business (read: money) point of view we would be worse of.

I think the only reasonable criticism towards the management is about transfers, but that still is way over top IMO. I think many critics underestimate the effect calciopoli had on our drawing power in terms of prestige, perspective and money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,219 Posts
Is this correct? I thought you were balancing the books and even having a profit usually. or was this because of Giraudo's "creative" accounting?
Any accounting experts here? I have a business background, but I always hated accounting and I'm not familiar with the English expressions. Anyway, according to the "net result" column in our finiancial reports (they are available on our website) we lost 36,5m euros (not pounds) in 05/06, in 04/05 we lost 3m €, in 03/04 we lost 18m, 02/03 we gained 2.2m and in 01/02 we gained 6,1m. The "financial position" column doesn't support Blancs numbers either. Those numbers can be influenced through choices of valuation methods and similair things, though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,535 Posts
No one is saying Ferrara should replace Gigli or Blanc, i don't know where you're getting that from.

And i simply do not buy the notion we have trouble attracting top talent, Alonso and VdV for example were perfectly willing to come here, if you are ready to spend the necessary money, you can pretty much get any player you want.

The problem is that we're spending too much on mediocre players, when in our history have we had complete write offs like Tiago, Almiron, and Andrade at their combined prices?

That's mismanagement any way you spin it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,350 Posts
I wouldn't say that the Tiago failure is the managment's fault. He is a good player afterall, a lot of us was very happy with the transfer at the time it happened, I surely was. Sometimes player just doesn't work out in a certain club or a league, and I don't think we can fault the managment for that.

Andrade and Almiron on the other hand... what were they thinking??!! We have also spent about 40 million euro on Iaquinta and Amauri when we already have Trez/DP. Amauri and Iaquinta are both fine players, but we could have spent that money more wisely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,535 Posts
Yeah, but anyone who has ever worked for a company knows, you're liable for the successes and failures you are in charge of. When you're the guy in charge of transfers that translates to how well the players you bring in perform. And there is no excuse in my view for him to still be on our payroll, okay it's clear he didn't work out and that couldn't have been foreseen, but then at least come to an agreement that sees us recuperate some of the money we paid for him. Right now, he's riding the bench and his value will surely drop to peanuts by the end of this season.

On Amauri i disagree, we paid 12m in cash plus players we didn't require to get him from Palermo. And with Trezz out injured he has certainly come through for us, so i think it was a good deal. Iaquinta, we paid too much for a player who is clearly not starting material.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,350 Posts
I agree on Amauri, I didn't mean to say that transfer was wrong. All I was saying is we spent to much on attackers when we have two as good as Trez and Del Piero. Mainly Iaquinta, who was very expensive for a sub.

Nero you got to remember that Tiago refused all the clubs that wanted him. The managment did all they could.

And I'm not meaning to defend the managment, I want them out as much as the next guy.

EDIT: speaking of Tiago, he seems to be starting the game tonight. Let's see what he can do. :sigh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,219 Posts
Andrade and Almiron on the other hand... what were they thinking??!!
We didn't get Milito as he prefered Barca. Andrade was not an excellent choice, but suggest a different player! As far as I remember the other players linked with us were Barzagli (who flopped badly since then) and Meira who would have costed 20m and is just average. It was a lose-lose thing for our management. You could suggest Zapata, but I guess our management feared a lack of experience which is reasonable enough. For either choice they could have been critizied today.

Almiron had a great season for Empoli and lead them to UEFA-Cup. Since we had problems to attract players from big clubs it was naturally to go for rising stars. Almiron was considered to be one of them. So in the first season we got Tiago who won 3 championships in a row with Chelsea and Lyon, a proven and rising Serie A player in Almiron, a proven Serie A striker and world champion in Iaquinta and a proven but damaged Andrade. That's hardly terrible considering the circumstances. Things went really bad with Andrade indeed getting injured badly again and both Tiago and Almiron flopping. My only problem was that we spend decent money on two players who obviously wouldn't be able to play together (Tiago, Almiron), but apart from that the choices were reasonable, IMO.


Nero said:
No one is saying Ferrara should replace Gigli or Blanc, i don't know where you're getting that from.
I quoted it. It's in the original post. Even if it was meant figuratively my point still stands.



And i simply do not buy the notion we have trouble attracting top talent, Alonso and VdV for example were perfectly willing to come here,
vdV was just desperate to join a big club and until Madrid showed up no other big team wanted him (Valencia were in for him before, but had already chosen different options). That's why he wanted to come to us. We were more attractive than Hamburg. Big deal. And Alonso was on the out-list of Liverpool and there was no real competition for him either. And still he seemed reluctant to come. It was more Liverpool wanting to sell him to get Barry than Alonso wanting to leave. I don't think that proves anything. We could attract good players for whom there was no big competition by other clubs, but as soon as we had to compete with other big teams, we lost out.

And keep in mind that was last summer when we already had a ticket to CL. Most criticism towards the management focuses on the summer after we got back to SerieA and when nobody knew whether we would be able to compete or not.


if you are ready to spend the necessary money, you can pretty much get any player you want.
But that's exactly the point. We can't! You seem to think that somewhere Gigli, Blanc and Secco are hiding tens of millions that they just don't want to spend to piss the fans off. I'm pretty sure they would love to spend more if our economic sitution allowed it. In the end their heads are on the line. Why wouldn't the spend as much as we reasonably can?


There is some reasonable criticsm towards our management, but most things are vastly exaggerated in my opinion. Sometimes you get the impression that we could just go to ManUtd and take Evra and Vidic to improve our defense, go to Arsenal to get Fabregas for midfield and go to Bayern to take Ribery as Nedveds replacement. It doesn't work like this. We have a tight budget (it's not only about transfer fees, but about wages, too) and other teams can outbid us and offer more attractive options.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top