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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #1
Last year Parreira tested the so-called "Quadrado Magico", with Ronaldinho Gaucho, Kaka, Adriano and Ronaldo. That unusually-offensive proposition sent the sports media into a frenzy of joy, to the point that some critics suggest that it's the best thing that happened to Brazilian football in decades. :rolleyes: In today's O Globo, "ultimate dumbass" Fernando Calazans said that if Parreira decides not to use the "magic quartet" he'll inevitably switch to an ultradefensive three-DM formation, which may just be the stupidest thing Calazans has ever written (and THAT'S saying something). :wallbang:

Me, I don't think the "Quadrado Magico" is the solution for all our problems, and I don't think it makes us unbeatable at all (as Calazans seems to think). IMO it's an interesting tactical alternative, yes, but also a potentially-suicidal approach, so I won't be heartbroken if Parreira decides to revert to a formation with more midfielders – after all, Juninho Pernambucano, who lost his 1st eleven position when the "Quadrado Magico" was adopted, should naturally return to the team if/when the "Quadrado" system is discarded... and any change that brings Juninho Pernambucano back to the first team can't be all bad. :D ;)

I'm not saying that I'm against the "Quadrado", I just don't think it's the Best System Ever, as some romantic commentators have been suggesting. It's a bold but also reckless tactical proposition, and I'm not entirely convinced that it will work when the chips are down. But what do YOU think?

Is the "Quadrado Magico" formation indispensable? Is it just a good idea that should be used only against certain opponents? Should Parreira keep the "Quartet" at all costs, and deal with all the defensive spaces that our team will inevitably offer to the opponents? Or should Parreira invest in a more cautious approach, and only employ the "Quartet" when the match's circumstances call for it? Maybe one of our mods can add a public poll here, so we can determine what the community thinks about the "Magic Quartet". :)

So, have your say! What's your opinion about Brazil's "Quadrado Magico"?
 

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Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Calazans is an idiot. =)

Like pvc usually says, the "magic quartet" haven't played together a full match (so all the fuss about it is pointless really...). And it won't work in practice if we continue to play with just Emerson in a holding role, when everyone knows that he only does well because Capello floods his team's with defensive oriented players... As well as having the likes of Lucio (who is a forward in a centreback's body: sometimes I play him as forward in PES to satisfy his needs... heh) paired with some other liability (should be Juan, but it really doesn't matter: they are all the same) and Roberto Carlos - Cafu/Cicinho as fullbacks (the way Cafu was ripped apart by Lee in CL semifinal last year should've at least flashed on the warning signal, and Cicinho is everything but a rightback).

But then you have to worry when you know Parreira/Gagallo just want to use Ricardinho passe-de-ladinho somewhere on the team. =\

Solution would be the 3-5-2 in my opinion. But you know Parreira/Gagallo won't use it as that was inevitably Felipão's solution for the past wc... And Parreira/Gagallo are as stubborn as a mule (much like all our coaches have been, in fact).
 

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The quartet is not a magical solution, but it was the best thing that happened in Parreira era. I remember Roberto Gallo saying here in the past that it would only work if Kaka took a more defensive aproach. And that's what happened, Kaka is doing what he needs to. He is marking and being the link from midfield to attack. Kaka is the key of this formation.
IMHO ,Stick with the quartet in the first round. If it works , keep it for the rest of the cup.
You guys have to remember how bad we were with Edmilson, Ze Roberto and Juninho behind Kaka, Ronaldinho and Adriano.
 

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I´d much rather see a 3-5-2 again

------------CB--------CB--------CB---------------
---Cafu/Cicinho----Edmilson/Emerson----Roberto---
---------Kaka(Alex sub)----Gaucho----------------
-------------------CF-------CF-------------------

or

----------CB--------CB--------CB-----------
Cafu--------Juninho----Edmilson-----------RC
--------Kaka--------------------Gaucho-----
--------------------CF----------------------
 

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Main problem with this formation
is that Ronaldo and Adriano are too fixed
could work okay in certain game situations
but in my mind not ideal as main formation
 

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The quarteto is the best solution and the rest of the team should be adapted to it. Saying it will have roles wont matter - all strategies have roles and we must use what we have of better.
We do not have great full backs anymore. Expecting their constant back-up is a dream. We do not have a great central defense. We do not have a great middlefield.
The problem lies - Adriano and Ronaldo are in bad shape. That simple. That is a problem. While Parreira (one of his merits) is good to put players fit to play and they will have time to do it and the World Cup motivation works here; there is no 100% seal of security. Having the finishers unable to finish kill any formation (Imagine a Romario in bad spell in 94?).
The other problem: The unbalance in the middlefield is not only caused by the quarteto. It is caused much by the duo of DMs; Emerson and Ze Roberto. In Emerson case, slow and old to cover so much area by himself. In Ze Roberto ? The guy is sacrificated by Parreira because he have to help emerson, help roberto carlos, run left and right, give Kaka and RG the ball, control the rythim of the game, open the game in the left side, give the first combat, start the game from behind. In other words, Ze Roberto have to do the job of 3 middlefielders and it is obvious that this is not working. In my opinion, since the vaccum between our defensive middlefield and offensive middlefield remains, Parreira should at least fix the holes in our defense and put a player that will perform just one of those options and defend it. Kaka would be loaded ? Yes, but it is not like he is loaded now.
Another thing - You get an offensive team basead on power and speed - and Parreira insist to vallue the ball possession, slow the game. Parreira is giving all that power to not use it. The big help the quarteto can give to defense is not them returning to defend - it is pressing the other team back so much that we will kill it quickly and let them frightned. Oh, it will leave us exposed to counter-attacks? Yes, but sorry, a good counter-attacking team, let's say Italy, will get us any ways, while we have poor side covering with two old full backs and an old and slow DM.
Then come the rest of the dumbness of Parreira - The end of quarteto is not a signal of Juninho Pernambucano return and if anything Calazans said it is true - it is signal of 94. Parreira is using Ricardinho to slow and control the game. He - and it is not a matter of opinion neither his lame excuses that we have 30 players to be called burnt Alex, who could easily be a starter because it is as good as many of the quarteto - which could be an opition for a more controled and slow game and a need to give a more distributed middlefield. He , when used Juninho, used him fixed, while he produces a lot running along the middlefield of Lyon. He basically used Juninho as second DM, not the Juninho we want to see.
All this period Parreira team have been crap, with quarteto or not, unbalanced, with a huge problem in the middlefield. (Amazing how the media discovered it in the friendly against Russia ? Can someone tell me when Parreira's team had a good friendly? Hong Kong ? Not to mention the hype caused by the good individual shape of our players, not because the team. We had a handful of really good games, but almost as many of bad games. For the Argentina and Germany game in the confederation cup we had Japan and Mexico) because parreira myope view always imposed the slow kind of game without having players for it. Because he started to give importance for Ze Roberto while he is just a sidekick, either he have his best performance ever, he is just it. Because he never gave balance to the defense, always picked bad names for it, never give cover - And this was proved by Scolari, how the covering of the wings is necessary with RC and Cafu in good shape, imagine now. Parreira just stepped back to Zagallo's when France used the lack of coverage to stop us. So much for the "scholar of football parreira - never got any critics (despite the festival of lies and stupidy he gave us those years that included Middlebourgh being one of the greatest teams in europe or that all eurpean teams play the same tatical system, 4-4-2) and his team always got the victories in the basis of, ball ahead, let's see what one of the stars do. It was mostly Ronaldo until the game against Argentina. In the Copa America we did not had a great team, but it was ball to Adriano. The quarteto improved the game because , simple, we have now four players doing it, not just one or two. (Because he gave more freedom to the quarteto, that he gave , surprise, when it was a trio).
His work was so bad that we have really only one chance: He put them fit, we do not face a team that know how to defeat us and come the quarteto and god help us. It is not because the quarteto is perfect tatically, it is not because it is the only option, but it is because it is the one that can produce more without back up of an organized team or strategy, which we won't have because in four Years Parreira showed to us that all the critics before 94 are not so in vain.
 

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This Quartet thing reminds me of the 4-2-4 Brazil used back in 58 and 62. It puts a lot of stress on the two midfielders. Hell, even with those teams Zagallo wound up playing as a slightly withdrawn wing to help with the midfield because Didi and Zito were left alone. With today's tactical midfields I don't know if two players can hold it. It would be defense and then 4 forwards runnign around without much of a link up. Unless Kaka or Ronaldinho drop back some to get teh ball.
 

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I quite like the idea of bei ng ultra offensive - a throwback to the "you score 3 and we'll score 4" days. We won't win it so we might as well entertain!!
 

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It can work if only A good center back is chosen to pair up with LUCIO, and Lucio must be advise that his not Pele, he should Know his limit. Get a quick Defensive midfielder i.e Machenaro type, since we dont have it juninho can be back in a fold But what will Happen to Adriano? or Ronaldo?
 

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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
About our strikers' bad spell... first, the fact that they aren't doing well right now doesn't necessarily mean they'll fail in the WC. As some wise pythons once said, always look on the bright side of life. :D And c'mon, Parreira isn't blind to a player's bad form – when Maicon failed to deliver in the latest Confederations Cup, Parreira soon saw the problem and put Cicinho in the team; and in 94 he benched his #10, Rai, around whom our midfield had been built. If Parreira replaced the prestigious Rai in 94, I don't see why he wouldn't do the same to an underperforming Ronaldo or Adriano in 2006. :hopefull:

I do like the idea of the "Quartet". But that bold system, wonderful as it is, has never been used during a whole match for a reason: it really exposes our backline, and any backline in the world has trouble when exposed. Despite all the criticism our defenders get, we do have some very good players in our defense. It's not the best defense in the word by any means, but it's a good defensive line overall. Any backline, no matter how good, suffers when it's unprotected, and ours is no exception.

Should we take Alex from PSV? If it were up to me, yeah. Should Roque Junior go? Even though I think Roque is seriously underrated, he's not among our four best central defenders so he shouldn't go (however - if Brasil still played in a 3-5-2, as we should, and consequently needed 5 or 6 centrebacks for the squad, Roque Junior could perfectly well be one of those 6). The four best Brazilian central defenders today are Lucio, Alex, Luisão and Juan, and that's the simple reason why Roque Junior shouldn't go. But every manager has his obsessions, and Parreira can always point to 2002 as proof that Roque can do the job. :stress:
 

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Parreira is very blind to players bad form - Took one year to notice that Rai was in bad form since he moved to france in 1993. He still use Roque Jr, never cared to prepare a replacement for Roberto Carlos either. It was needed Careca to ask "I want to leave" for him to notice Careca was over, he sustained Elivelton for months, used Taffarel when he was in worst momment in 1993. He may notice, but year, months, this does not help.
He needed god's help to use Romario in 1994, to build the central defense but not even god could help to make him notice how poorly Rai was that Parreira did not even took a replacement for him and we had a piano carry middlefield and no performer.
 

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What I´m talking about is not the problem that Ronaldo and Adriano are out of shape.
I´m talking about their characteristics that they don´t move enough without ball, running to create space for others and themselves.
Instead walk around waiting for long periods, not working for team.
A team mostly can´t afford to have more than one player of this type.
Instead one of them should be more of an assisting forward or both of them should be better at assisting each other with runs and passing.
Sure they can improve and adapt to this this but probably not enough since their main characteristics is working as a lone striker.
And sure being in shape can improve their abilities and contribution individually
but not necessarily increase their teamwork probably rather the opposite.
They rather risk of destroying team work by holding ball too much.

To put it simply
None of them are really a great assisting forward
and we lack a great assisting forward to balance this quadra properly.
But still this can be a good compromise, utilizing the strong points of Adriano and Ronaldo.

Kaka will work as assisting forward in the quadra and will also need, together with Ronaldinho, to have a more laid back position to do playmaking and ball distribution,
connecting midfield.
So having both Adriano and Ronaldo in the quadra puts a bit to much need for either of them to work as assisting forward or even attacking midfielder.

Both Kaka and also Robinho is better at this.
If Robinho can improve a bit further, he could be the perfect piece of the puzzle
but so far he hasn´t but rather developed more into a winger and his scoring ability isn´t good enough, both shooting and heading is too poor.
left winger tendencies competes with Ronaldinho
instead he has shown to be a quite good sub for Ronaldinho.

Ronaldo turning more and more into pure striker.
Adriano has shown right working attitude but does he have the speed endurance and stamina with the size of his body? Not really agile or vision enough for assisting forward?

Alex or Juninho could be used instead of Ronaldo or Adriano and help out Ronaldinho with playmaking/balldistribution and then Kaka/Ronaldinho could work more dedicated as assisting forward and get a better balance offensively.

To balance the team defensively with quadra needs another approach and gives other aspects that needs to be further dealt with and also wing play may suffer with middle too packed in offense etc.
 

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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #14
I do agree with ya, Dribble. Robinho would be MUCH more interesting in the "Quartet" than having a pair of redundant strikers, because Robinho would ofer more tactical alternatives.
 

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I cant wait until they announce the world cup squad. It will be interesting to see who gets on the squad and who starts.
 

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to tell u the truth, i kinda CAN wait...please no roque junior. i f i see him on the sqoad list...i will have a heart attack. and the thought of alex (both) not in the squad just frightens me
 

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Yeah that will be great to see some pedala's, when teams r tired. I'm sure when PUYOL see Denilson he shit himself.
 

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Cruzes, why do we need flipper if we have RG and Robinho that do it out of water and without the need of tired defenders ?
 
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