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Second Place winner, October 2012 XT Photo Contest
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Discussion Starter #1
On April 6 1994, one of the most shameful incidents of the last 40 years (at least) began in the tiny African country of Rwanda. Within 95 days over 800,000 people were dead and pretty much everyone in the population was affected in some way, as either a perpretator, enabler or victim. A horrific event that certainly did not have to happen and could have been stopped/greatly shortened had their been any political will amongst the involved great powers (Belgium, France, the USA) and the UN, it is now basically a monument to ass-covering and faux mea culpas by the very same people that spent three months lying about the situation and avoiding doing anything about it until it was over. People knew what was happening when it happened and people did nothing. One hopes their sleep is troubled from time to time, but they probably get 8 hours a night.

There isn't enough cloth in the world to cover that ass:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1182431,00.html

A good overview:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/evil/

Lesson learned?
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2536344

Another overview which mentions the colonial roots of the Tutsi Hutu divide (often overlooked in the ass-coverer's rush to ascribe the genocide to "ancient tribal hatreds"):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1288230.stm

another excellent overview:
http://mediafilter.org/caq/CAQ52Rwanda.html

Despite what ass-coverers said at the time, it was certainly, legally GENOCIDE:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/rwanda/

What is the point of dredging up decade old news? What is the point of studying and debating the mistakes and crimes of 1994? Why not leave the Rwandan genocide six feet deep in the nice little memory hole it has been consigned to and focus on more important matters?
If we don't examine the horrors of history and understand exactly how they occured, we can never be in a position to prevent the next horror from happening. Plus those accountable must be made to pay, if that can be said to happen when the worse thing that can happen to most perpretators is a jail sentence (for the Africans involved), a feeling of extreme guilt (for the lower-level Western people), and perhaps a less important position at some think-tank or some less money on the motivational speaking tours (for the higher level Western people involved). We, as human beings, should still try.

RIO
 

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Nasty Woman
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1. Again it's the USA's fault. It has nothing to do with the people (i.e., MEN) who ran around hacking each other to death with axes. What is so hard about NOT hacking your neighbor to death with an axe? The fault lies with the Rwandan monsters who committed the acts.

2. Where was the rest of the world? The last time I checked, there were several more countries in the world other than the US.
 

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RIO is my neighbor Hummy and lives in San Fran.

Nonetheless, we have alot of liberals out here who like to speak their mind all the time. I don't think is RIO is one of them though.
 

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International
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Horrific and sad...but the main culprits here were the butchers themselves, and not the US. Also Annan and the UN, deliberately cut its peace presence shortly after the airplane crash that fueled the genocide indirectly affecting its escalation as it refused intel by the leading UN military figure there.

As usual the UN sats on its inept ass when it could have intervened.
 

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A couple of days ago general Romeo Dallaire said something very wise in the UN's General Assembly. He made the comparison with Kosovo where Nato intervened because everybody agreed on the fact that a genocide was going on. However in Rwanda it was just referred to as nothing but some tribal troubles. The reason for that is that people just do not care when it comes to Africa. Some lifes have more value than others. I think although they bare huge responsaility it's ot only our politicians that are to blame. Clinton covered his ass because he understood that politically he could only loose.

In Belgium we still mourn our 10 paracommando's that we captured and murdered by Hutu-militia's. Nobody deserves to die the way they did, but fact is that their entire regiment was misbehaving (racism, visiting hookers, violence towards the locals,... you name it). Still they are seen as the innocent victims here whereas nobody, but really nobody cares about the other 800.000 people that were slaughtered.
 

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Nasty Woman
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Open the first link, then, Flo.

Typical.

murder in Rwanda, thousands of people in mass graves, the US does nothing and the world criticizes.

murder in Iraq, thousands of people in mass graves, the U.S. does something and the world criticizes.

Sheesh.
 

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This definitely isn't the "US's fault" in the first place. Belgium has an enormous responsibility here. Still we were the only country pepared to givetroops for the initial UN-mission. Problem is that when the whole thing started a couple of regiments would have been able to stop the worst part of the killings. Still the Belgium and theUS along with others fought a huge diplomatic battle in the UN not to call it a genocide althoug they very well knew it was.
 

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Where was the rest of the world? The last time I checked, there were several more countries in the world other than the US.
Yes Amercia needs to save all its resources for the liberation of Iraq people
Who need to be saved

Rwanda?
Thats just some place in Africa thats not oil loaded
 

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i'm ashamed that my country didn't make something to stop it. because france had the possibility to stop it.
i'm 100% agreed with you rio.
 

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Humbird said:
Open the first link, then, Flo.

Typical.

murder in Rwanda, thousands of people in mass graves, the US does nothing and the world criticizes.

murder in Iraq, thousands of people in mass graves, the U.S. does something and the world criticizes.

Sheesh.
There is a huge difference between leading a country to complete chaos and sending soldiers to prevent a genocide. I by the way wonder why in the first case they had a diplomatic war to get in whereas in the African case they gave a way a fight as fierce as the one 1 year ago... not to go in.

But still don't let this slip aay in one another Iraq-discussion.

I by the way do not see a reason to duck responosibility no sane person can deny is ours.
 

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Nasty Woman
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Fabiocapello said:
Yes Amercia needs to save all its resources for the liberation of Iraq people
Who need to be saved

Rwanda?
Thats just some place in Africa thats not oil loaded
You're in London. Why don't you tell us what England did to stop the Rwandan massacres?
 

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Humbird said:
Open the first link, then, Flo.

Typical.

murder in Rwanda, thousands of people in mass graves, the US does nothing and the world criticizes.

murder in Iraq, thousands of people in mass graves, the U.S. does something and the world criticizes.

Sheesh.
I know Hummy. I feel you and agree. Like I said, most folks out here are all 21st Century Hippies and while RIO is quick to criticize, she's not as extreme as those hippies.

Fabio, you're a fricken bonehead.
 

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Why don't you tell us what England did to stop the Rwandan massacres?
They did nothing
Just let it go ahead

But they did make up lies to go to find some oil.. I mean weapons in Iraq

So does that make them good guys like you?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Where did I singly blame the USA? Please point out that part of the post for me? Unless Belgium, France, the UN Security Council and General Assembly and several other nations have suddenly become the 51st, 52nd and 53rd state (and if so, I failed to get the memo), I fail to see how you could have come to that understanding by reading my post. You did READ it right? As a matter of fact, not one of the articles cited makes that leap of logic (although one has a very unfortunate title).
Of course, the people who perpretated the crimes are responsible for the crimes themselves. That is so obvious I didn't even feel it necessary to mention. Point out where I have absolved them please.
The fact remains that there were a number of international enablers of this genocide, of which the US, Belgium and France are only the most powerful and prominent (Belgium in its role as former colonial power, not in its general international power status, which is rather negligible). I will make it simple for you: Hutu extremeist in the 'interammwe' hacked and shot to death over 800,000 people and the INTERNATIONAL community signed their death warrants by 1. pulling out any semblance of an international peacekeeping force 2. actively conspiring to keep from calling the genocide an genocide (which would have legally compelled them to act) and 3. undercutting any attempts made by the remaining UN peacekeepers to save lives via ridiculuous rules of engagement, foot dragging and double talk.
How that translates into " the USA is solely at fault and those poor Hutus had nothin' to do with it", I fail to see. Unless the rush of air caused by the jerking of your knee made you temporarily lightheaded...

RIO
 

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Nasty Woman
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Fabiocapello said:
They did nothing
Just let it go ahead

But they did make up lies to go to find some oil.. I mean weapons in Iraq

So does that make them good guys like you?
Flo was right. You are a bonehead.
 

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Well that didn't take long. Somehow a thread about the tragedy of Rawanda is already about what the U.S. did or didn't do.
 

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RIO said:
Where did I singly blame the USA? Please point out that part of the post for me? Unless Belgium, France, the UN Security Council and General Assembly and several other nations have suddenly become the 51st, 52nd and 53rd state (and if so, I failed to get the memo), I fail to see how you could have come to that understanding by reading my post. You did READ it right? As a matter of fact, not one of the articles cited makes that leap of logic (although one has a very unfortunate title).
Of course, the people who perpretated the crimes are responsible for the crimes themselves. That is so obvious I didn't even feel it necessary to mention. Point out where I have absolved them please.
The fact remains that there were a number of international enablers of this genocide, of which the US, Belgium and France are only the most powerful and prominent (Belgium in its role as former colonial power, not in its general international power status, which is rather negligible). I will make it simple for you: Hutu extremeist in the 'interammwe' hacked and shot to death over 800,000 people and the INTERNATIONAL community signed their death warrants by 1. pulling out any semblance of an international peacekeeping force 2. actively conspiring to keep from calling the genocide an genocide (which would have legally compelled them to act) and 3. undercutting any attempts made by the remaining UN peacekeepers to save lives via ridiculuous rules of engagement, foot dragging and double talk.
How that translates into " the USA is solely at fault and those poor Hutus had nothin' to do with it", I fail to see. Unless the rush of air caused by the jerking of your knee made you temporarily lightheaded...

RIO
RIO, it was the fact that the article you posted first was about the Clinton Administration doing anything at all. In addition, the USA was named in another conflict that happened and why they were inactive. It's all about perception RIO don't take it personally or I'll accuse you of plotting behind closed doors with folks on Haight & Ashbury. ;) :tongue:
 
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