Suker is the best Real has ever had

591 Views 20 Replies 15 Participants Last post by Gwydno, Apr 27, 2002

Profesor

Discussion Starter · Apr 19, 2002

suker was the best striker during his spell at real it was the coach that didn't give him the chance to prove it first season with real he scored 24 and than the following season new coach and suker is on the bench

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

Micke

· #2 · Apr 19, 2002

Ever had? Ok thats just a littttle bit biased :tongue:

But iam sure Davor could hae given a lot to RM with the right coach, right tactics, right teammates, right apartment in Madrid...... Its all BS, either you are good enough and score no matter what or you are just another player who "never realised his potential"...

raul17

· #3 · Apr 19, 2002

:wth:
He could have been one of the best if he wasn't painting the town with Ana Oberego(?) I don't know if she was a model, but the Spanish press always following her and “Sukerman” around. He was good scorer before he came to Madrid, but he became better known when he wore the white shirt.

Jun-Lei

· #4 · Apr 20, 2002

Suker contributed a lot to Real, but surely he isn't the best of all time, from what I understand of your title. The all-time Real greats and even Raul would be more likely contenders for that honour.

raul17

· #5 · Apr 20, 2002

I didn't mean to say he was the best. He would have been one among many. "Pugsley" Puskas is the best. I think Raúl will be considered the best about sixty or seventy years from now if he get a few scoring titles, European Cups, league titles, and at least one World Cup. Any player between now and the late 80s, I can not include for a best of Madrid team. For recent history: Michel is the best midfielder, Butragueño as best striker, Iker in goal, and I could not name the best defender. Hugo Sánchez and Bam Bam Zamorano tied for second best forward. Alfonzo Peréz would have been up there, but the kid wasn't given opportunity.

AMOROSO!

· #6 · Apr 20, 2002

raul17 said:
Any player between now and the late 80s, I can not include for a best of Madrid team. For recent history: Michel is the best midfielder, Butragueño as best striker, Iker in goal, and I could not name the best defender.

You surely don't mean Casillas, right?

raul17

· #7 · Apr 21, 2002

AMOROSO! said:
You surely don't mean Casillas, right?

Yes I do. Francisco Buyo, José Cañizares, and Mario Illgner were the only other major starters from 1988 to present. I picked Iker because it is very rare for a teenager to become the #1 keeper in big time football. I can only remembered Cañi being replaced as the starter in two different seasons. Buyo was good, but it was like trying to pick a defender!!

cliffordil

· #8 · Apr 21, 2002

AMOROSO! said:
...Casillas, right?

Talking about Casillas.. I was accompanying my friend to buy PS/2 yesterday.. we saw this kid playing some football game, Spain vs Saudi and guess what!? Casillas's taking the PK for NT and actually scores!! :dazed:

:eekani:

:excited: :howler: :happy:

Realsupporter

· #9 · Apr 21, 2002

hei guy! where is Di Stefano

No doubt he was the Real's all time best player.

Che

· #10 · Apr 21, 2002

let's just say Suker was the best Croatian to paly for Real!

colocolo

· #11 · Apr 21, 2002

How about Campos ??? :dielaugh:

:dielaugh:

No.......really are we here forgetting "La saeta rubia: Alfredo D'Stefano ??

AMOROSO!

· #12 · Apr 21, 2002

raul17 said:
Yes I do. Francisco Buyo, José Cañizares, and Mario Illgner were the only other major starters from 1988 to present. I picked Iker because it is very rare for a teenager to become the #1 keeper in big time football. I can only remembered Cañi being replaced as the starter in two different seasons. Buyo was good, but it was like trying to pick a defender!!

Look mate, Casillas became a starter cause there was NOONE else around. NOONE. Reina became a starter for Barcelona too, does this make him a good goalkeeper? Moreover, Casillas has been nothing but average so far and he needs to learn a lot before he is seriously good enough for Real Madrid.

Now, how can you ever claim that Casillas has been better than Buyo, Canizares or Illgner for Real, is beyond me. Mind you, I rate none of them particularly high during their time with Real, but for sure they have done more and better than Casillas. Especially Buyo.

el niño

· #13 · Apr 21, 2002

AMOROSO, raul17: I disagree with you both

Casillas is not the best keeper the club ever had. You have to show your worth for at least four or five seasons to be included in a Real Madrid dream team. Buyo was probably better tham Iker, but the all time best is Ricardo Zamora

roud:

However, Iker could well be the all time best. At present time, César is better, but Iker will be better than him in a few years.

And Iker is not a mediocre player. It is wrong to compare him with Reina. What has Reina accomplished in Barca? He lost his place to Bonano (César is WAY better than that guy) and now he is probably leaving the club. May I remind you that Casillas cept a clean sheet in a CL final? I watched most of our liga matches in the 99/00 season, and Casillas was the only one who didn`t play like crap from time to time, he followed up the good in the next season and only just recently lost his place to César. IMO César is one of the top 3 keepers in Spain (Cañizares and Molina, with Ricardo, Esteban and Iker in the heels)

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Juanele

· #14 · Apr 21, 2002

Re: AMOROSO, raul17: I disagree with you both

el niño said:
IMO César is one of the top 3 keepers in Spain (Cañizares and Molina, with Ricardo, Esteban and Iker in the heels)

Cesar is ok. Definitely better than Casillas. However, I rate Toni Prats, Contreras, and Notario better than Casillas or Esteban or Ricardo.

AMOROSO!

· #15 · Apr 21, 2002

Duh, we are talking about the 90s. Zamora was somehow older, wasnt he?

Casillas is indeed mediocre. He has hype, he has time on his side but right now he is an average goalkeeper. Do the words "I drop crosses" sound familiar?

Reina is crap, agreed, but apart from playing in a worse team than Real and not being one of Camatcho's obsessions he has "proven" himself as much as Casillas (mind you, I'm not saying Reina is as good as Casillas). Don't forget that when Casillas broke into the side he had in front of him the best defence Real had for years (with Helguera libero, and both Karanka and Campo in the form of their lifes with Real), as soon as the defence changed to the usual crap, Casillas' inexperience was badly exposed. He makes mistakes, he concedes silly goals, and he is overrated. He has the talent but there are several other goalkeepers more talented than him in about the same age (not in Spain though).

PS. Prats of Betis whips the floor with both Cesar and Casillas. One more to add in your list.

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The Merengue

· #16 · Apr 21, 2002

Paco Buyo is clearly the best Real have had in the last 2 decades.Illgner is a close second,he was fanatstic in his first few years.

As for where Casillas stands right now,he is a good goalkeeper.He is not average,he isn't special.He has some problems with crosses,but almost all keepers (except the exceptionally good ones) have some problems with crosses in their early years,especially playing behind a defence which is so weak,especially in the air.His shot stopping is brilliant,he is brave,and he can develop character with more experience.

As for Suker,yes,he is the best Croatian to ever play for real Madrid.

Allright,I'll make it best Croatian to have played in Spain.

el niño

· #17 · Apr 21, 2002

AMOROSO! said:
Duh, we are talking about the 90s. Zamora was somehow older, wasnt he?

Yup, I just felt I had to mention him, as el Madrid has had no better since il divino. Zamora - Quincoces - Ciriaco, those were the days

roud:

As for Casillas, he may well be a tad overrated, but that`s because he is a god in the eyes of the fans, not because there is anything wrong with his talent. He has great reflexes, and good positioning. One could get the impression that he screws up a lot, but that`s mostly because of costly mistakes in defence. With our attacking minded football, we are very vulnerable to counterattacks, and every personal foul (Salgado and Pavon has done some strange things lately) will expose the goalie...

Regarding the aerial cababilities of Iker, we pretty much agree, they are nothing to boast about, and that`s the main reason why César is preffered. However, Casillas will improve as he keeps on getting more experience.

AMOROSO! said:
PS. Prats of Betis whips the floor with both Cesar and Casillas.

Correct

, I just forgot Prats somehow...

Then there i level 1 goalkeepers: Cañizares, Molina, Prats and maybe César

level 2: Notario, Esteban, Ricardo and Iker

Contreras never impressed me, but then again, I haven`t seen him much this season

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labas

· #18 · Apr 21, 2002

Casillas isn't as overrated as he is currently underrated by a large amount of "football specialists"

amongst them AMO, who by all means knows a lot, but sometimes gets carried away due to his pre-occupation with Serie A

He's made some miserable blunders this season, and that's what's given him a lot of bad public. Mind you, he's still a great keeper with a lot of skill, only now he has to deal with the return of our legendary defense, and that can't help.
Cesar IMO has been a better choice for Real ever since he arrived in the summer of 2000 (I believe?, or was it 99?...). Ever since Iker made his way into the team beating Illgner, I thought Cesar should've played, but until now the answer has been no. Iker finally got penalized for his constant flaps on crosses, and with the addition of some other silly mistakes, it meant relegation to the bench.
Both he and Cesar are potential for national team material though. Trust me, that if he was in Contreras' boots down in Malaga, or Prats' at Betis, you'd be saying the same things about him, the way you are now about them.
You expect more from Real, the way you expect more from the great teams.
That's precisely the reason why Barca's goalies are always deemed to be failures. These guys aren't as bad as they're made to look, they're just not ingenious, and at such a club anything less makes you look bad. Particularly bad when you have a totally shi*ty defense in front of you, as is the case with Barca now, and Real of 2 or 3 years ago.

Everything is IMO just a bit relative, and sometimes these small differences are a bit hard to judge if you're not a close observer. As much as I respect your opinion AMO, I think you're victim to the general trend of overly criticizing Casillas just now.
And saying all this in defense of Casillas, I must say I'm a bit disappointed with Cesar myself. I expected much, much more from him... when he arrived from Valladolid he was the 3rd keeper for Spain

Of course, being benched for 2 years can't help, but a call up merits class and I can't say i see anything better than <good> in his performances right now. Of course, than again, doing the Xavi thing v Barca is something you repay with a year of ingenious defending, such is the magnitude of such an error, and at this particular point I can't exactly objectively tell if I'm not the one being influenced by "relativity" on Cesar

:devil:

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raul17

· #19 · Apr 22, 2002

raul17 said:
I didn't mean to say he was the best. He would have been one among many. "Pugsley" Puskas is the best. I think Raúl will be considered the best about sixty or seventy years from now if he get a few scoring titles, European Cups, league titles, and at least one World Cup.

Any player between now and the late 80s, I can not include for a best of Madrid team. For recent history: Michel is the best midfielder, Butragueño as best striker, Iker in goal, and I could not name the best defender. Hugo Sánchez and Bam Bam Zamorano tied for second best forward. Alfonzo Peréz would have been up there, but the kid wasn't given opportunity.

Iker Casillas is not the all-time best. I counted four keepers who were starters: Buyo, Cañizares, Illgner and Iker. In two different terms, Cañi was given the job and he lost it because of bad form! Illgner had one great season and he lost his job because of injuries! Buyo was like a bad rash

1995 or 1996, Francisco was to give way to Cañi, but he couldn't give the job away. He became the Spanish David Seaman

Rod

· #20 · Apr 26, 2002

Suker was great at CF Madrid.

One of the top strikers of our time...

Too bad he never played for one of the major clubs...

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