Xtratime Community banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,958 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
It's strange how history repeats- or not. 5 years ago a club from Dundee accommodated the green and grey by moving their fixture back to allow Celtic a free week before their UEFA Cup final. 5 years on we have the other Dundee club unwilling to help us out. Contrary to what some half-whits think this is not to help us in the SPL but in our quest for a European trophy. Their chairman is still greeting about some final they got humped in 2 decades ago and probably still in a huff that we pumped them out of silverware at Hampden this season.

That should in theory be good though. That is something to bring up in the dressing room before the game. As if this Rangers side needed more motivation to win a home game in the SPL but judging by the performance against Motherwell it would appear we need more than just the prospect of winning the league.

It's a little like when we were the first club in Scotland to make the last 16 of the Champions League. For some reason we looked disinterested domestically and in Europe looked a good side- or at least a couple of levels better than on league duty. It's the same again at the moment. As soon at the final came into site our league form has dipped starting ironically enough with the draw at Tannadice.

The Tangerines will be more than motivated for their visit. They want revenge for Hampden. they want to be in Europe next season and they know they have a great record against us. They will prove to be more difficult opposition than Motherwell. They have won at Ibrox in recent seasons.

We will have our work cut out. They will come to put on a solid defensive show first and foremost and are well equipped to do that. If we thought we had trouble breaking down Hibs and Motherwell then we are going to find it doubly tough in this one.

But we must win or forfeit the title. Destiny is still in our hands for the first of these 4 remaining matches. Win 4 games, win the title. It's that simple.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
It’s not (not) strange at all. The Celtic-Dundee game could be moved a few days earlier as there was enough room in the calendar to accommodate this. The polar opposite is the case this season.

I don’t envisage any problems for your lot to overcome Dundee United, so long as the goals don’t flow in. I am looking at one of the three away games for you to drop points.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,958 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
It’s not (not) strange at all. The Celtic-Dundee game could be moved a few days earlier as there was enough room in the calendar to accommodate this. The polar opposite is the case this season.
Yes I know the circumstances were different but my point is that Dundee agreed to help Celtic in their quest for the UEFA cup whereas Dundee United refused point blank to help Rangers.

The thing is it could have been changed and the league could have been extended. This "sporting integrity" is a cop out. More games than normal have been postponed and should not have been but since they have they should be extending the league and give Rangers the same benefits in their European quest as they gave Celtic if they want their "sporting integrity" to remain intact. Ultimately though the SPL have made an arse of things this season with regards to the fixtures and no doubt will do again in future.

I don’t envisage any problems for your lot to overcome Dundee United, so long as the goals don’t flow in. I am looking at one of the three away games for you to drop points.
I'm not that confident but again that's not what it is about. It's not about cancelling the game so that we have a better chance winning it at a future date. The game Rangers feel should be cancelled so they can prepare for a European final in which they are representing not only Scotland but the very organisation who are not helping at the moment. As far as I am aware most organisations do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
Because Dundee could help us, Dundee United by virtue of there being no alternative date, cannot. The SPL have made an arse of things since last year i.e. agreeing to cancel the rangers game against Gretna, allowing games to be cancelled before the Scotland-Italy game etc. They have nowhere to go in the current situation however and extending the league by what they have done, is the best they can do.

The situation since Monday has became farcicle and has not been helped by David Murrays ludicrous comments. His claim that the SPL will be seen as a laughing stock around Europe is just nonsense and he has deliberately introduced a siege mentality at rangers, especially more so now given that the league is very much back on. Maybe someone should direct him to the fixtures Sevilla or Middlesboro had to play prior to their UEFA Cup final two years ago. Can anyone remember holding the Spanish League or the English League up as laughing stocks?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,978 Posts
You don't think the SPL is being seen as a laughing stock in other countries?? You only have to look at some comments on this global forum to see that's not true. I've said long before this fiasco that the SPL is a total joke. When was the last time we had a real leader running one of the organisations in charge of our game? I had some hope that Gordon Smith would be different because he'd played the game, but he seems to be involved in as many cock-ups and PR disasters as Gordon Brown.

And I doubt Middlesboro or Sevilla played as many matches in such a short period of time as Rangers.

Anyway, the Dundee United match...

They've been a real bogey team for us, but I still think we'll win. They're results have started to tail off a wee bit and I hope that continues on Saturday.

I've got a feeling Adam might start the game, and as much as I dislike him, he does actually add a bit of balance to the team.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
You don't think the SPL is being seen as a laughing stock in other countries?? You only have to look at some comments on this global forum to see that's not true. I've said long before this fiasco that the SPL is a total joke. When was the last time we had a real leader running one of the organisations in charge of our game? I had some hope that Gordon Smith would be different because he'd played the game, but he seems to be involved in as many cock-ups and PR disasters as Gordon Brown.

And I doubt Middlesboro or Sevilla played as many matches in such a short period of time as Rangers.

.
You should maybe go and check their fixtures then. Middlesboro were far worse off then rangers and Seville played the midweek before the final and the weekend before.

I presume the same people who are apparently laughing at the SPL also laughed at the EPL and La Liga? I only ask, as I can honestly say I cannot recall any furore over their respective fixture lists and the fact they were playing the midweek and weekend before the final.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,958 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Middlesborough had nothing to play for in the game before the UEFA Cup final. They sent out a reserve side that lost 0:1 at Fulham and only one of the starting 11 started in the UEFA Cup final.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
Middlesborough had nothing to play for in the game before the UEFA Cup final. They sent out a reserve side that lost 0:1 at Fulham and only one of the starting 11 started in the UEFA Cup final.
However Sevilla did - both that season and last season.


P.S. If rangers wanted to field a reserve side on Saturday then go ahead!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,958 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Lol, I'm sure Walter wouldn't mind doing that.

Yes you are quite right about Sevilla but the same still stands for Boro. And ultimately the same still stands for Celtic 5 years ago. I agree they could be accomodated at that time easier than it would be to accomodate Rangers now but just because it was easier then it doesn't mean we should not still be helped now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,978 Posts
We have a heavier schedule in May than Sevilla did.

P.S. it's hard to take a guy/girl seriously when they are so petty that they type rangers instead of Rangers :howler: Get a life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,978 Posts
And I guess you're having to go and check your facts, which is why you're editing your posts all the time :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
We have a heavier schedule in May than Sevilla did.
What have subsequent games after the final got to do with anything when all this furore is apparently only about helping rangers out in their quest for a European trophy?

In the fortnight prior to the final, Sevilla played:

Thursday
Sunday
Wednesday
Saturday
Wednesday – Final

That is the exact same as rangers have. As I said, I can’t recall any outrage over this nor can I remember La Liga being a laughing stock –can you?

It’s time your clubs stopped bleating about this. The situation is at it is for numerous reasons, many the fault of rangers, others not. The best possible extension available was given, and that’s that. You should be looking forward to the final instead of creating a siege mentality and convincing yourself that the whole of Scotland is plotting against you. It’s not every season you can look forward to a European final after all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,958 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
What have subsequent games after the final got to do with anything when all this furore is apparently only about helping rangers out in their quest for a European trophy?

In the fortnight prior to the final, Sevilla played:

Thursday
Sunday
Wednesday
Saturday
Wednesday – Final

That is the exact same as rangers have. As I said, I can’t recall any outrage over this nor can I remember La Liga being a laughing stock –can you?

It’s time your clubs stopped bleating about this. The situation is at it is for numerous reasons, many the fault of rangers, others not. The best possible extension available was given, and that’s that. You should be looking forward to the final instead of creating a siege mentality and convincing yourself that the whole of Scotland is plotting against you. It’s not every season you can look forward to a European final after all.
The difference with Sevilla, and Boro, is that they were not going for a title so saw no need to postpone their matches. Rangers are going for a title and see the need to have a free week just as Celtic did 5 years ago. Sevilla never asked, Boro never asked but Rangers and Celtic did and only one team was refused. That is it at it's most basic level.

Your claim that many of the reasons why the situation is as bad as it is is down to Rangers is laughable. Rangers were granted one postponement- is that what got us into this mess? Or are you saying that by granting Celtic's request for a postponement was Rangers' fault too? By far and away the biggest reasons for this current situation is the mess at Fir Park and the SPL inability to deal with it. The latter being the biggest reason because all the problems this year would not still exist if they were managed properly. Integrity is not something you associate with the Self Preservation League.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
The difference with Sevilla, and Boro, is that they were not going for a title so saw no need to postpone their matches. Rangers are going for a title and see the need to have a free week just as Celtic did 5 years ago. Sevilla never asked, Boro never asked but Rangers and Celtic did and only one team was refused. That is it at it's most basic level..
You said, “Contrary to what some half-whits think this is not to help us in the SPL but in our quest for a European trophy” – now you are quite happy to introduce the fact rangers are going for the SPL title and use this as a reason as to why rangers should have had games postponed. A slight contradiction to say the least. To clarify, this is you admitting the extension/postponment is intended to help rangers win the SPL as well as the UEFA Cup?

Sevilla were not going for the title, however they were going for a Champions League spot and had all to play for on that front. They carried on their league campaign as normal. As I ask, can anyone recall La Liga being the laughing stock of Europe over this?

Again, the situation with us 5 years ago is completely different. Dundee contacted us and indicated that they were willing to have our game moved forward to the Wednesday if we wanted, which we agreed to. That could happen because their was room in the fixture calendar for it to happen. There simply isn’t any room for that to happen this season. I don’t understand why this is so hard for some to take on board. The season has already been extended as best it can. You'd have thought your manager would have been grateful for that, after all, he is the one who came out and said last month that no-one from rangers asked for an extension and no-one would be either!!

Your claim that many of the reasons why the situation is as bad as it is is down to Rangers is laughable. Rangers were granted one postponement- is that what got us into this mess? Or are you saying that by granting Celtic's request for a postponement was Rangers' fault too? By far and away the biggest reasons for this current situation is the mess at Fir Park and the SPL inability to deal with it. The latter being the biggest reason because all the problems this year would not still exist if they were managed properly. Integrity is not something you associate with the Self Preservation League.
You were granted one postponement as ridiculous as it was. You also agreed to postpone your game against St Mirren prior to the Scotland-Italy game. Your failure to keep your pitch in shape led to a postponement of a Scottish Cup tie and in addition, you faced two extra games due to your failure to see off two teams in the Scottish Cup – one a first division side. I’d say that amounted to ‘many’.

Of course I agree that there are other serious problems with the SPL this season and they should have taken action against Motherwell before the situation, as it did, got out of hand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,529 Posts
honestly, what's the big deal with this? scotland successfully got old firm games postponed, didn't help them beat italy, likewise, postponment didn't exactly help gers beat lyon either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,958 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
You said, “Contrary to what some half-whits think this is not to help us in the SPL but in our quest for a European trophy” – now you are quite happy to introduce the fact rangers are going for the SPL title and use this as a reason as to why rangers should have had games postponed. A slight contradiction to say the least. To clarify, this is you admitting the extension/postponment is intended to help rangers win the SPL as well as the UEFA Cup?

Sevilla were not going for the title, however they were going for a Champions League spot and had all to play for on that front. They carried on their league campaign as normal. As I ask, can anyone recall La Liga being the laughing stock of Europe over this?

Again, the situation with us 5 years ago is completely different. Dundee contacted us and indicated that they were willing to have our game moved forward to the Wednesday if we wanted, which we agreed to. That could happen because their was room in the fixture calendar for it to happen. There simply isn’t any room for that to happen this season. I don’t understand why this is so hard for some to take on board. The season has already been extended as best it can. You'd have thought your manager would have been grateful for that, after all, he is the one who came out and said last month that no-one from rangers asked for an extension and no-one would be either!!
The postponement of the Dundee United game would have no effect on the league. The reason I mention the difference is that this is why both Rangers and Celtic asked for a free week while teams like Sevilla and Middlesbrough got on with it. Going for a Champions League spot is not akin to going for a title. If they were in that position then maybe they would have asked too but they weren't and they didn't.

There are obvious benefits to having a free week before a European final. For one you cannot really train in such fixture congestion as everyone knows.

There was room for the SPL to allow Celtic to move a game and have a free week before the UEFA Cup final 5 years ago granted. Just because there is not room now due to their bad management that doesn't mean they could not have made room. Are you really seriously saying extending the league by another 3 or 4 days would have been a problem? And lets not forget. Rangers wanted to play games when their were free midweek slots available and the SPL refused. Had they granted this there would be no need to extend the league.


You were granted one postponement as ridiculous as it was. You also agreed to postpone your game against St Mirren prior to the Scotland-Italy game. Your failure to keep your pitch in shape led to a postponement of a Scottish Cup tie and in addition, you faced two extra games due to your failure to see off two teams in the Scottish Cup – one a first division side. I’d say that amounted to ‘many’.

Of course I agree that there are other serious problems with the SPL this season and they should have taken action against Motherwell before the situation, as it did, got out of hand.
So we asked for the same amount of postponements as Celtic and I think we both agree that both clubs were wrong to ask in those instances and the SPL were wrong to grant them. The waterlogged pitch posteponement was the fault of Rangers so that is one more than Celtic. You cannot really be think that playing replays is the fault of Rangers. Replays have been part and parcel of our cup season for years and in most other countries. That is hardly the fault of Rangers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
The postponement of the Dundee United game would have no effect on the league. The reason I mention the difference is that this is why both Rangers and Celtic asked for a free week while teams like Sevilla and Middlesbrough got on with it. Going for a Champions League spot is not akin to going for a title. If they were in that position then maybe they would have asked too but they weren't and they didn't.

There are obvious benefits to having a free week before a European final. For one you cannot really train in such fixture congestion as everyone knows.

There was room for the SPL to allow Celtic to move a game and have a free week before the UEFA Cup final 5 years ago granted. Just because there is not room now due to their bad management that doesn't mean they could not have made room. Are you really seriously saying extending the league by another 3 or 4 days would have been a problem? And lets not forget. Rangers wanted to play games when their were free midweek slots available and the SPL refused. Had they granted this there would be no need to extend the league. .
If you want to make it out that this has nothing to do with the league, then I think it was unadvisable for you to say “Rangers are going for a title and see the need to have a free week”.

Out of interest, how do you know Sevilla never asked for a postponement? Regardless the point is, they had competitive games left and as I said were going for a CL spot. Gaining a CL spot for them I am sure is every important as it is for rangers to win their 50th odd title. They got on with the firxture list without any furore, why can't rangers?

David Murray has made it out as though everyone will see the SPL as a laughing stock for not allowing rangers, what he sees, more than enough time to rest before their UEFA Final. La Liga didn’t do this with Sevilla and as I have said, I cannot recall anyone laughing at them. Murray makes it out as if this is the norm and that the SPL are conspiring against rangers, when this simply isn't the case.

The league has already been extended as best it can, there simply isn’t enough room left to extended it any further.

So we asked for the same amount of postponements as Celtic and I think we both agree that both clubs were wrong to ask in those instances and the SPL were wrong to grant them. The waterlogged pitch posteponement was the fault of Rangers so that is one more than Celtic. You cannot really be think that playing replays is the fault of Rangers. Replays have been part and parcel of our cup season for years and in most other countries. That is hardly the fault of Rangers.
What have Celtic got to do with this? Celtic weren’t wrong to ask for any game to be postponed.

If not beating teams at the first chance of trying in the cup isn’t the fault of rangers, then whos fault is it exactly?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
honestly, what's the big deal with this? scotland successfully got old firm games postponed, didn't help them beat italy, likewise, postponment didn't exactly help gers beat lyon either.
I know, that’s another I don’t understand. We seem to have some myth growing whereby a break will ensure rangers are going into the game with a better chance of winning.

Conveniently for rangers of course, if they don’t win the UEFA Cup (and/or the league), they now have the ready made excuse and scapegoats they require.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,958 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
If you want to make it out that this has nothing to do with the league, then I think it was unadvisable for you to say “Rangers are going for a title and see the need to have a free week”.

Out of interest, how do you know Sevilla never asked for a postponement? Regardless the point is, they had competitive games left and as I said were going for a CL spot. Gaining a CL spot for them I am sure is every important as it is for rangers to win their 50th odd title. They got on with the firxture list without any furore, why can't rangers?

David Murray has made it out as though everyone will see the SPL as a laughing stock for not allowing rangers, what he sees, more than enough time to rest before their UEFA Final. La Liga didn’t do this with Sevilla and as I have said, I cannot recall anyone laughing at them. Murray makes it out as if this is the norm and that the SPL are conspiring against rangers, when this simply isn't the case.

The league has already been extended as best it can, there simply isn’t enough room left to extended it any further.
I don't know why you are having trouble grasping this but I'll try again. Rangers will not play an understrength team in the league. They cannot afford to do it at this stage in the season. So whether the game against Dundee United is played tomorrow or after the UEFA Cup final has no impact on the league. But it does have an impact on their preparations for a European final because playing on Wedneday night then Saturday morning and then Wednesday again they cannot train properly. A free week like Celtic were granted would have given Scotland's representative's in Europe a better chance of winning the final.

To be honest I don't know if Sevilla asked for the game to be postponed but I'm going on the assumpiton that they did not as I've not heard otherwise. I'd imagine though as they were not going for silverware they were happy enough to rotate their squad but again I don't know what eleven they put out each time.

How can the league not be extended further? That is nonsense. As I said before if some unforseen circumstance occurred after the UEFA Cup final that led to one of Rangers' games having to be postponed then the SPL would have no choice but to extend the league. So it can be done but the SPL don't have the spine to do it becuase they know they would get hassle from another club and they are afraid of that.

What have Celtic got to do with this? Celtic weren’t wrong to ask for any game to be postponed.

If not beating teams at the first chance of trying in the cup isn’t the fault of rangers, then whos fault is it exactly?
So both sides of the divide asked for the same number of games to be postponed and only Rangers were at fault. Without dragging up Celtic's request for a postponement again I would personally say that didn't have to be requested and that game could have gone ahead. The same goes for Rangers' request. The waterlogged pitch was solely Rangers fault which cannot be argued I feel. Replays though don't come into it. Replays should be accomodated in the season's fixtures and teams should not be punished for having to fullfill them. Even at that Rangers only played one more replay than Celtic so I hardly think that causes a backlog in fixtures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,958 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
honestly, what's the big deal with this? scotland successfully got old firm games postponed, didn't help them beat italy, likewise, postponment didn't exactly help gers beat lyon either.
True. There is no guarantees that it will help but that isn't the issue here. As soon as Celtic's Peter Lawwell started mouthing off about extending the league jeopordising the sporting integrity of the league then by definition it is right that Rangers question a decision that denies Rangers the same luxury as Celtic were granted 5 years ago.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top