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Discussion Starter #1
To all Spain football lovers:

After seeing the horrible performances of Spanish sides Depor and Madrid (considering Barca's line-up, I am not sure that is a spanish team:confused: ) I must say we see similar mistakes at the national team level. Let me say one thing, the most disappoint occurrence was Depor's loss to an unworthy team, and at home. I say unworthy because in comparison to players, Depor is light years away from Man U, (as they have shown defeating so many of Europe's top sides this season) however, the PHYSICAL aspect of football has once again disappointed.
Depor, like Madrid in Munich, did not know how to defend. This is also a problem with la Seleccion. Defending (fighting) with determination... Its not that the team has poor defenders (some of the best actually) its just that they are not acostumed to INTENSE defensive measures when it is necessary. Like Depor and Madrid in the Champs league, Spain's national team has also shown problems making the "transition" from attack to defence (it is something we have seen at Euro 2000 as well)

I believe that our wonderful ball skills are always going to be with us, but it is time to face the "dirty work" Hard running, complete concentration, strong agressiveness and determination.....these are characteristics that we can all work on and improve, and this is something that must be taken seriously in Spanish football, because it is a shame that teams like Bayern, Man U ...or portugal/holland (recent friendlies) are able to steal the better from us when in comparison to these rivals with ourselves, they are very "ordinary" these days and should not overcome us. In the World Cup, we wont have the luxury to play Bosnia and Chipre, we wont be facing potential winners, but we will have to meet decent rivals which it seems even they are able to cause too much trouble, something that doesnt occur with the rest.......

Another thing I mention is these "members" who come to these forums and try to tease..."wind up" the members here in order to contribute useless arguments. Dont pay any attention and eventually they will leave (it seems the majority of these "hooligans" are british fans) so I remind you that if you see a thread like "La Liga is sh*t compared to Premiership" or "Spain is a joke compared to ........" whatever, I advise you to not apply and likely you wont see such rubbish anymore.

(I am 99.9% sure that such "members" would never change their ilogical opinions anyhow...)
 

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mallorquin said:
To all Spain football lovers:

After seeing the horrible performances of Spanish sides Depor and Madrid (considering Barca's line-up, I am not sure that is a spanish team:confused: ) I must say we see similar mistakes at the national team level. Let me say one thing, the most disappoint occurrence was Depor's loss to an unworthy team, and at home. I say unworthy because in comparison to players, Depor is light years away from Man U, (as they have shown defeating so many of Europe's top sides this season) however, the PHYSICAL aspect of football has once again disappointed.
Depor, like Madrid in Munich, did not know how to defend.
mallorquin, you write some good posts but sometimes you let your bias get the better of you. Depor are light years ahead of ManU?? You got to be kidding. You have to remember Depor's victories over ManU earlier this eason were pretty fortunate with 2 mistakes leading to 2 goals at Old Trafford while scoring 2 goals very late on at the Riazor to snatch victory.

1 thing that should be pointed out though in defence of Depor is their inexperience at the top level. ManU have been down this road many many times while Depor are pretty new to this game.
 

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Mallorquin

ANYBODY can claim their team has potential to be the best, and you are asking for nothing but embarrassment making statements like,

because it is a shame that teams like Bayern, Man U ...or portugal/holland (recent friendlies) are able to steal the better from us when in comparison to these rivals with ourselves, they are very "ordinary
What is 'ordinary' about Portugal, (my team), and Holland in comparison to Spain? What has Spain done to show it is superior to these two teams?

Of course Spain is a good team, but please my friend - don't get too far ahead of yourself ok? Wear the clothes that fit you. You don't deserve France's robes yet.
 

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it is a shame that teams like Bayern, Man U ...or portugal/holland (recent friendlies) are able to steal the better from us when in comparison to these rivals with ourselves, they are very "ordinary"

Oh, please give me a break man. I want the Spanish NT to win just as much as any other Spaniard. But, to say that a team such as Bayern or Holland is ordinary. What the hell have we accomplished to say that we are superior to Holland or Portugal?
 

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Tinto said:
What is 'ordinary' about Portugal, (my team), and Holland in comparison to Spain? What has Spain done to show it is superior to these two teams?
With all my respects, Spain is way better than Portugal, you only need to look at their players... about Holland, well, now I ask you: what has Holland done? it's not even in the World Cup.

But of course, they're not ordinary, but right now Spain has more quality than them.
 

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That's my whole point. Neither of these teams have accomplished anything, so you can't say one team is better than the other. Yes, quality wise, I would say Spain has more quality players than Portugal. But, that doesn't mean crap, if the coach can't make a team out of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
hmmm

Think a little more carefully:

Hoseman:

I wrote that Depor's squad is better than Man U's,..... BUT in terms of club structure and history, there is a massive difference, but let me tell you. (Man U is superior in that case) but tell me:

Besides Veron & Ruud Van,... who would choose Man U's players before Depor's??? I am sure every top continental club would rather have Valeron, Mauro Silva, & Naybet before Scholes, Butt and Neville!! This applys to almost the whole squad, this is why Depor has achieved such great results against Juve, Madrid and Arsenal consecutively, something not even Man U would have even got close to accomplishing. Biased? Not me, i just see the obvious. Depor lost to a team that simply does not have any ball skills as Depor footballers do, but overcame them through the physical basics: Run, tackle, etc....

Mendieta & Tinto:

Let me say another "obvious" I am not being disrespectful, but lets compare Spain and Portugal. The only portuguese player that would be in Spain's national team is Luis Figo. He is the only one that we (or anyone else!) would choose. In every other aspects, Spain is superior. I am not letting pride in my way, it is a fact? Anything you say to the contrary is nonsense, I am not about to hear that "nuno gomes is better than any forward in SPain" or Jorge Costa or Paulo Sousa would "walk" into the spanish national team, because its a joke. (Besides if you saw the way the portuguese performed in that recent friendly against Spain.....you would know who was "2nd best")


As for Holland, read carefully what I said. I stated that they are "ordinary THESE DAYS"

Yes this includes the dutch, who did not advance to the world cup finals because mighty Ireland (!!) stopped them, if we ever should have the best chance to beat the dutch, it is TODAY.



SuperPuyol understood me well, one reason may be because he is in Spain at the moment.
 

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mallorquin,

Obviously you are a reasonable person, comfortable that your knowledge is rooted in fact. What other kind of person could write,

I am not letting pride in my way, it is a fact? Anything you say to the contrary is nonsense
If Spain is so superior, why didn't they win against Portugal? I did not see even one report that said the game was anything but a challenge to both sides. Neither team had to be ashamed, but to my eyes neither was clearly superior. We were better in the first half, you were better in the second.

If Figo is the only one worthy of a place in your national team, what are Pauleta, Costa, Conceicao, Couto, Costa (J), Gomes, Sousa and more, all doing playing outside of Portugal? You want to tell me that big foreign clubs don't employ talent that is comparable to your National Team? With a population 1/4 of Spain's we seem to produce quite a few players that others want.

You claim to stick to the facts, and disprove it everytime you post. So you either don't know the facts, or like a little boy who is lying, you hope that repeating something will make it so.

True confidence is quiet. I don't need to make claims about Portugal, they showed their potential at Euro 2000, (unlike ah...which country???? Oh yeah.. Spain!), and they've qualified for the W.C. beautifully.

Boa fortuna. I am glad you are Spain's fan and not Portugal's.
 

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Tinto said:

If Figo is the only one worthy of a place in your national team, what are Pauleta, Costa, Conceicao, Couto, Costa (J), Gomes, Sousa and more, all doing playing outside of Portugal?
Pauleta has no chance against Raul or Tristan
Costa, Conceicao, etc... would be in the bench with players like Valerón, Helguera, Lucho, Baraja, Albelda, Mendieta...

The fact those people are playing outside Portugal is because portuguese league is not a big league and they have to go to the best ones: Spain, Italy, England... I'm not saying they're bad players, but Spain has better players than Portugal in every position (except Figo, who's a world class)

You talk about Spain Vs. Portugal... damn, it was a friendly. Do you think Spain was playing its "ideal" starting 11? Camacho was proving young players to give them an opportunity to play for the NT (Joaquin for example)... not to mention that I'll never understand what is doing a horrible player like Munitis in Spain;)

Portugal is a very good squad, indeed it is, but Spain is just better.
 

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Another one. You guys are hilarious. Let me tell you, money is money, and big teams don't pay big bucks unless the players are good. Period. These are business men my friends, they don't care about nationality.

I love it when you start trotting out the excuses. "We're the best, but oh, it was a friendly so we weren't really trying". But we were right? One set of rules for your team, another for the other guys. You make me laugh.

I would agree that our Primera Liga does not see the same quality of play as La Liga, Series A, or EPL, but that is an indication of the size of the respective economies not the quality of players turned out. How can you seriously contend that Rui Costa is not a world class player? Join your friend mallorquin, your post betrays your ignorance.
 

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You call me ignorant just because I have a different opinion... good. I never said Rui Costa wasn't a world class player, I know he is, along with other good Portuguese players. Damn, I never said Portugal was a bad team. What I'm saying is Spain has better and more players in each position (once again, except Figo).

Also, according to your theory, Finland is a lot better than Portugal, because they trashed you 1-4 at home. Obviously, we all know Finland is way worse than Portugal, my dear friend.
 

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but Spain has better players than Portugal in every position (except Figo, who's a world class)
That statement seems to cut out Rui. And it was that statement I intended to brand 'ignorant'.

QUOTE]Portugal is a very good squad, indeed it is, but Spain is just better.[/QUOTE]

As far as Finland, yes they WERE the better team on that day. Portugal stank the place up. It doesn't bother me to admit it because I know one game doesn't tell the whole story.

Accordingly, Portugal's performance over the last couple of years suggests they are better than Finland overall. Just as their performance at Euro 2000 suggested they were a better team than Spain at that tournament. So once again, I ask; where do you get off making a claim for Spain being better than Portugal? Based on what? Your hopes? Your dreams? Every international ranking (FIFA, ELO) disagrees with you, placing Portugal ABOVE Spain. I don't say the rankings are 100% accurate, that remains to be seen at the W.C. But for now the best thing you can do is be humble and wait and see. Otherwise, if Spain continues its recent tradition, they will choke and you will have another lousy tasting dish of embarrassment to eat.

Sorry to give you a lesson in your own discussion area, but hey it's better to hear it from a friendly neighbour than from an Englishman or an Italian? No? ;)
 

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Tinto,

Not to change the subject or anything but are you guys worried about not having Rui Costa? It seems to me he is the only one to take the pressure off of Figo on the NT. I believe Simao is injured as well no? You guys have a fairly easy 1st round group but after that I think it's going to be tough.

As far as us, Spain, well with Camacho at the helm I see us getting to the 2nd round at most. If we had a decent coach we could make a run at the semifinals but not with this clown.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
hmmm

Tinto:

Lets straighten one thing here, (i dont judge friendlies or foolish FIFA rankings.....did you see how high the likes of colombia or the czechs are as well???...I only mentioned the Spain-Portugal friendly to emphasise the portuguese approach, their initial intentions.....not the performance.) However, you are simply not agreeing with me based on being a Portugal fan. Yes, I do recognize that Portugal is a great rival, a good team, but more on a colective base. Your arguments are weak, those so-called "star" players on the team, are still, "no-where" near the level of spanish footballers. (Except Figo, who is better than the rest) I understand how there are portuguese players abroad, but does that make any difference? I judge by their performances compared to those of Spain, and the difference is huge. I didnt say Spain is superior to Portugal in terms of results or efectivity but Spain's squad, is (i will repeat) light years away from Portugal.....

(Also, since you mentioned it.. yes Spain failed at EURO 2000, but against who? the french.
who did Portugal go out against? the french. or the italians?)


but putting that aside, as I said before, I know Spain are not the best, perhaps not even title candidates, but that "curse" has nothing to do with being poor in footballer production. (Its evidently a strategical issue)

I am 100% sure that any Euro nation, Italy, Germany, and even France would choose spanish footballers for their national sides before their own, if they had the chance or possesed that capacity.....
 

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Tinto said:
So once again, I ask; where do you get off making a claim for Spain being better than Portugal? Based on what? Your hopes? Your dreams?
I repeat AGAIN: based on the fact Spanish players are better than Portuguese OVERALL. My dreams? My dream is having Naomi Campbell as sex slave my friend ;)


Tinto said:
Sorry to give you a lesson in your own discussion area, but hey it's better to hear it from a friendly neighbour than from an Englishman or an Italian? No? ;)
What's a lesson to you? You're just a Portuguese fan defending his football team, and you have the right to do so. Unluckily you all seem to have an inferiority complex and get angry for nothing.
 

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Mallorquin and El Cid,

If you interpreted the tone of my responses as 'angry', then I have to take a course on writing. Which is bad news for me, since it is what I do for a living. You both keep claiming Spanish players are better than Portuguese players, (except for Figo), but you offer no objective logical explanation of why you believe that. Both of you admit the answer is not in the results the Spanish team achieved in recent times. So I'm not trying to be argumentative or angry, I'm just asking you to support your statements. I don't think either one of you has yet prompted me to 'defend' Portugal, I've just stated facts. Lets agree to disagree. Seems we both agree that both teams are worthy of respect.

By the way, at Euro 2000 we went out against the French on a pretty controversial hand ball call. I kept most of the media reports of that game and all agree on two things, 1. Portugal was dominating the game, 2. It was unusual for such a call to be made in so important a game.

Juanele,

You are absolutely right. It looks like the God of Futebol is not smiling on Portugal. When he's in form, Rui is in some ways almost more important to us than Figo, and this weekend he was hurt AGAIN! At this moment it is unknown if he will be available for the W.C. and almost for sure won't play against Brazil next week. Simao was in super hot form all year, he's gone for 4 to 6 months because of an injury sustained in that horrible friendly against Finland. The only good news for our mid-field is that Figo looks to be back and Conceicao was brilliant in the game against Finland.

Our group (D), looked easy at first, but now I don't know. S.K. is at home, the U.S. play like mad dogs on the field and at the moment have momentum, and Poland is an unknown quantity to us. We have trouble with east euro teams, Poland is solid, and they have the excellent Dudek between the posts and that 'African-Pole' striker who I hear is pretty good.

You guys should be ok for your first round, and in the second will probably be facing either Germany or Ireland. Both those teams have potential, but with any luck whatsoever you should be through. We will have a tougher time in the second round (assuming we make it), if we have to face Italy. If we don't get them than we'll have to face Slovenia and I don't know much about that team.
 

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With the risk of sounding like a traitor to my country, I don't think Spain can lay claim to being better to Portugal or Holland. Big deal, so Holland didn't qualify for the WC, but they demonstrated to us, what they are capable of the other day. As for Portugal, I'm sorry but I saw the game against them and it could of gone either way. This is one of the reasons why Spain fails so many times. We think we're better than all these teams before we have even accomplished anything. That is one comment that I will agree with Camacho on, which he makes all the time, Spain always thinks they are favorites to win or better than other teams before having proven themselves. Some of you are pointing out that these games are friendlies and they don't mean anything. Mabye, that is the case, but Spain do not exactly have a good track record even when they do play with their official 11 during big tournaments. You know, I truly hope I'm wrong, I really do because I would love to see Spain do well this year. But, one thing I do know, is that we should be keeping our mouths shut before the WC, cause if we should of learned anything by previous tournaments is that we end up eating our words afterwards. I'm taking a different attitude this year. If they do well, then great, but I'm not putting my hopes up, until I see it. And so far it hasn't looked very promising.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
hmmm

Tinto:

A spaniard you can talk to? Are you sure about that? Mendieta supports both Madrid and Valencia, how is that possible?? (just a joke......)

Anyhow, this has become a dead conversation, as none of us are going to change our opinions, but as I said before, I am not judging results or team performance, rather individuals when I say Spain is better than such teams.....
 

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Mendieta and Tinto,

I'm not sure where you get the idea that the majority of Spaniards think the NT will do great. Every one of my family, friends, and generally everybody I know thinks Spain will do crap. I find Mallorquin to be the exception in this case and I admire his optimism. Truth be told, most people I know are looking forward towards next league season a lot more than the WC. Why? Because they know we'll be crap this summer.

I'll be very pleasantly surprised if I have to eat my words. But I'm not counting on it.
 
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