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Discussion Starter #1
Its a great read. Just started it today and I think some of you who are into stats and a little more stuff like why AC Milan players can play when they are older and other suff like that. The book goes into great detail about lots of topics and it has frequently mentioned Turkey as a future power. And the authors were inspired at a soccer conference in 07 in Istanbul for FB's cenetary year.

http://www.amazon.com/Soccernomics-Australia-Turkey-Iraq-Are-Destined/dp/1568584253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267500215&sr=8-1
 

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stopped by barnes and noble, read the part about Turkey's future. interesting stuff
 

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dont wanna ruin it for those who wanna read :D, just a summary, because of the population growing, and Turks throughout Europe thriving in leagues such as Germany and Holland, it will help the NT
 

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Sounds interesting and the type of thing I could enjoy.

I'm looking at at a few books on Amazon, maybe I can do a batch order with this and others to make postage cheaper.

I was looking at a few books from/about Mourinho, Wenger etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I've read 50 pages so far. They use stats to clearly explain how england nt is overacheiving and why it won't win another cup unless it is hosted in england. Also great examples about transfers by using the wenger approach and an indepth look at why anelka is such a transfer **** up.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Also looks at Notts forest as a transfer success story in the 80s when they won 2 CL cups. Also, has a brief statement regarding Turkey's fitness cooridantor during Euro08-trying to make a connection with the last min goals. But by far the most interesting was the story regarding O.Lyon and how they are able to accomidate their newly transferred players properly. As well as the 'AC Milan Lab' where they are able to determine which players will be playing till later ages and who wont.

I really reccomend this book, esp to those of you who want to look at things from a different perspective such as by the numbers or by case results.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I cant stop commenting on the book. So its interesting that they use some sort of equation that consists of the GDP, the soccer pool and the home field advantage to the nt's score. and they argue that the forienger restrictions should be lifted because local players get lazy and so they do not see the need to fight to earn a place ( they are subsidised by the club for their shitty effort=they get to play regardless).

So with that said, the main arguement is that a country like England and I use England because so far thats the chapter I have read about, is apparently exceeding expectations because their soccer pool is shrinking due to the middle class getting larger and the working class is getting smaller. so I think that the main arguements were that (which i have not gotten to yet) a country like Turkey has a larger working class, has a larger population, the GDP is increasing and so Turkey should be a power.

The critical point here was location=wester Europe. Because the toughest and the best leagues are in western europe means that the managers and players and clubs get to exchange ideas easier than other regions (considering the population density and the number of clubs). in fact if we look at the number of succesful wester european nations in international games and clubs, there is no doubt that the region is more advanced.

So Turkey is at a location that is just outside this area, but still close enough. But they will talk more about Turkey later. I'll be sure to update futher.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
To our american based members,

The book mentions Theo Epstein. Because long ago a certain someone named Bill James started tabs on stats that 'mattered' such as AB%. and then this was applied by the owner of the Oakland A's, and one of the followers of this system was in fact Epstein. The red sox hired this guy as a consultant and he brought in Epstein.

here is a link on a brief bio of this james guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_James
 

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Really does sound like an interesting read. I might go and purchase it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Just a little more info abourt O.Lyon:
1) they buy players between 20-22 and sell them when they get an offer that is much higher than they expect. so they always deny that they will seel just to increase the price 'benzema is not for sale'
2) do not buy players after major tourneys as they are over valued. also, centerforewards are overpriced.
3) accomidate the players (house, car, school for kids)
4) the coach is just a temp, the team goal is perminant. any coach will win the champion ships ( i think it was 3-4 different ones in 8 years). the system is the same. no need for the coach to change all the players, the coach and staff meet and staff decides who to buy and who to sell as the coach merely just makes the most of what he has to work with. I think this is the most critical part of what I have read so far.
 

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we have the potential to have one of the biggest audiences around the world. Obviously not as big as the English and Spanish but still...

Starting off with the young 75 million in Turkey, the huge Turkish diaspora amongst the world, we also have a following from a lot of people amongst the Balkan nations, the middle east is a huge potential since us Turks are usually frowned upon but our TV dramas have absolutely boomed in their media market so there is no reason why our football wouldn't, we also have a lot of Turkish fans in Iran which for some reason the general Turk don't know nothing about, plus we are also highly regarded in South Korea and Japan and finally the Australians have been praising and following our league for the first time (Kewell plus the other aussie footballer factor).

So yeah, money wise we will become one of the biggest in the world... but I dunno if that will bring us results though.

If we do get to host Euro 2016 then I think our league would also excel, then we could possibly see three teams qualifying for the CL with three more for the EL by the end of the decade.
 

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4) the coach is just a temp, the team goal is perminant. any coach will win the champion ships ( i think it was 3-4 different ones in 8 years). the system is the same. no need for the coach to change all the players, the coach and staff meet and staff decides who to buy and who to sell as the coach merely just makes the most of what he has to work with. I think this is the most critical part of what I have read so far.
This is .. dangerous.

Lyon had it worked out well and the system works for them, however in recent times they have been overhauled by a club who gave it's (talented) manager the freedom to build his own team - Bordeaux & Blanc.

That way of operating is generally how Turkish clubs work as well, and it has done us no good. The successful sides in Turkish football have been the ones which allowed a manager the freedom to build his own squad - Daum in his first stint at Fenerbahçe, Zico's second season (he had choice over transfers), Terim's first stint at Galatasaray, Lucescu at Besiktas.

Whilst I believe there aren't enough "good guys" out there as managers, I feel that if clubs oppress the way they operate then we're going to have even less of them in the future.

A club should be able to draw the line with it's manager, saying "no" as required, but to also appreciate that these guys are here to build something. They require the freedom to put their own ideas into fruition in order to be successful, either short term or long term.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well another key point later on to follow up with that was that managers are usually unqualified for that team or that the appointment is quickly done. Usually based on recent 'success' such as Mclaren for NT of England. But the real deal is done by clubs like Milan who appoint Sacchi.

Also, no matter how much debt or shit the club is in, the club will most of the time survive. If your company produces a product that is shit, then you switch products. If your company downgrades the quality, you switch. If your football team plays like shit, loses, doesnt do well, people are still going to support. they wont switch teams. Or, the team can downgrade into a lower league( aka lower quality product). So teams will never really be wiped out no matter what. So this is why bit Turkish teams always get away with bs.

But that is enough paraphrasing for now. I wont post anymore.
 

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Milan is an interesting case, with Sacchi and later Capello you can really say they were onto the right plan.

Later with Ancelotti you can argue the same, yet they clearly overdone his cycle and held on for too long. Now they brought in Leonardo who offers a newer, fresher view and could pay dividends yet again.

But between Capello and Ancelotti? Cesare Maldini, Fatih Terim, Alberto Zaccheroni, Capello & Sacchi with short stints again, that's all I can stand to remember! There were very dark times for Milan here.

So clearly, the model may be in place but the model is always dependent on circumstances and it's leader - the manager.

What you can take out of a club like Milan is,
1. Their loyalty - they don't sell out their managers or their players as cheaply as a Turkish club would.
2. Their willingness to do something new - they aren't scared to give a Capello or Leonardo a chance, and in doing so won't back away from point #1 either.
3. The structure - the club doesn't abandon it's history or it's culture when things go bad.
 
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