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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
History: SHAKHTAR DONETSK

The 7th November 1939 was the 22nd anniversary of Soviet power proclamation in the Soviet Union. Back in that day, one can recall the only League match was the rematch in Stalino. Beforehand, the local club Stakhanovets protested their home draw 3-3 versus Dynamo from Kyiv owing to a clearly preconceived arbitrary. After all their reasons were considered, and the told day the team from Ukrainian capital was exposely punished at 3-1.

Stakhanovets Stalino, founded only three years before in 1936, still remained a moderate club for many years after the World War II. In 1946 Stakhanovets received its present name Shakhtar. And only in 1961, the very year Stalino was renamed Donetsk, the talented coach Oleg Oshenkov brought Shakhtar Donetsk to their first great glory.

The Soviet Cup final in Moscow against the current USSR title holders Torpedo Moscow looked a hopeless affair. Along with that, Shakhtar didn't receive any proper conditions neither for training nor even for staying in the Soviet capital. Aged fans remember that final became a real shame for the best defence in the USSR, and ended a 3-1 victory of the away side.

Next year Shakhtar Donetsk made incredible efforts and regained the Cup, easily overcoming a widely unknown club from Moscow suburb at 2-0. In 1963 they forfeited a wonderful chance to leave the Cup in Donetsk forever, having lost only the final match.

The next dream team, perhaps the strongest in the club's history, was very likely to win the title in 1979 but for the doubtful decisions rumoured to be linked with Communist leaders. Having been heading the League the whole season, Shakhtar was surprisingly overtaken by glorious Spartak Moscow in several last matchdays. Next year the team leaded by its best player of all epoques Vitaly Starukhin and another successful coach Viktor Nosov won the third Soviet Cup for Donetsk.

Just after the collapse of the USSR, marked with mass disorders at CS Shakhtar in Donetsk, Shakhtar wasn't unfortunately a truly competitive team. Things changed the opposite way after the current club President came to power. The year before, in 1995, despite unsuccessful performance in the domestic league Shakhtar defeated Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk in the Cup final only after an exhausting penalty shoot-out.

Two years after, Shakhtar Donetsk repeated this achievement once more, beating Dnipro with the score of 1-0 in the Cup final, and initiating a five-year-long series of silver conquests in the League. Meanwhile, the Miners took part in 2000/01 Championship League, taking 3rd place at the first group stage and defeating Sparta Prague by 2-1 and Arsenal London by 3-0.

The first foreign coach in the club history, Mister Nevio Scala, at last accomplished what was the dream of the generations to accomplish. Though in 2001 weakening Dynamo Kyiv managed to deny Shakhtar severely zapping for the title thanks to successful work with referees, the next year Shakhtar Donetsk made a golden double, beating Dynamo first in the Ukrainian Cup final by 3-2 after extra time, and then in the decisive League match in Donetsk by 2-0.

While the Miners took part in 2004/05 Championship League, taking 3rd place at the group stage and defeating Celtic FC by 3-0 and FC Barcelona by 2-0, they failed to qualify for 2005/06 League, but still remaining no doubt far the best club in Ukraine. The Ukrainian Cup is an only trophy currently not being held by the club, but the runners up from Dynamo Kyiv have been beaten 2-0 in Kyiv and 3-2 in Donetsk the season before. Shakhtar have also secured their first Ukrainian Supercup in the penalty shoot-out in July 2005.

So, this newly begun season of 2005/06 Shakhtar supporters expect their players and their coach, wise Romanian Mircea Lucescu, to dramatically improve at their lengthy way to the EFA Trophy...
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Summary information: SHAKHTAR DONETSK

- Founded in 1936, named Stakhanovets in 1936-1946, professional since 1989;

- Honours in the USSR (1936-1991):

The Championship of the USSR: never
The Soviet Cup (4): 1961, 1962, 1980, 1983
The Soviet Season Cup (1): 1984
The Runner Up of the USSR (2): 1975, 1979
The Runner Up of the Soviet Cup (4): 1963, 1978, 1985, 1986
The Runner Up of the Soviet Season Cup (2): 1980, 1985

- Honours in Ukraine (since 1992):

The Champion of Ukraine (3): 2002, 2005, 2006
The Ukrainian Cup (5): 1995, 1997, 2001, 2002, 2004
The Runner Up of Ukraine (8): 1995, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004
The Runner Up of the Ukrainian Cup (2): 2003, 2005
The Ukrainian Supercup (1): 2005

- Colours: orange and black

- Nickname: the Miners, the Moles

- Ground: RSC 'Olimpiysky' (capacity: 25,500);

- Greatest players of all times: Georgiy BIKEZIN, Grigoriy BALABA, Konstantin SKRIPCHENKO, Yuriy ZAKHAROV, Nikolay GOLOVKO, Valeriy YAREMCHENKO, Viktor ZVYAGINTSEV, Vitaliy STARUKHIN, Anatoliy KONKOV, Mikhail SOKOLOVSKY, Yuriy DEGTYARIOV, Viktor GRACHEV, Valentin ELINSKAS, Sergiy ATELKIN, Oleg MATVEYEV, Yuriy VIRT, Sergiy POPOV etc;

- Greatest coaches of all times: Oleg OSHENKOV, Viktor NOSOV, Valeriy YAREMCHENKO, Viktor PROKOPENKO, Nevio SCALA.
 

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Nice history:) You always were known as a "Cup" team, even when you were huge underdogs against Dnipro you managed to get the title. It's a shame Shakhtar never won a Soviet title though, coming second couple of times:tongue:
 

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How are Razvan Rat, Stoican and Florea doing? Do they have regular starting places? How would you rate them each out of 10?

Thanks. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Scarface said:
Nice history:) You always were known as a "Cup" team, even when you were huge underdogs against Dnipro you managed to get the title. It's a shame Shakhtar never won a Soviet title though, coming second couple of times:tongue:
Thanks for appreciating my humble efforts, and welcome!! :)

...and don't even try to provoke a quarrel. ;) One could become possible only after Dnipro wins just SOMETHING in Ukraine. :D

Raven said:
How are Razvan Rat, Stoican and Florea doing? Do they have regular starting places? How would you rate them each out of 10?

Thanks. :)
Daniel Florea, joined the club in August 2001. Unfortunately this guy doesn't play since 21st May 2003, when an unexpected injury in Dynamo - Shakhtar clash put his further career under threat. He is almost fit by now, though the latest news report him as an injured player again. A sure starter during those two years, he could be marked no lower than 8 for the low percentage of unsuccessful performances.

Razvan Rat, joined us in July 2003. A capable and ambitious youngster whose main drawback is said to be defensive play. Fairly speaking, his debuts have provoked a wave of criticism, but Razvan grew adult in a few months and not accidentally he won the right to enter my personal list of Living Glory (see below) :D But to tell you the truth, his mark should be approximately 6 with a significant potential for growth.

Flavius Stoican, hopefully will make his debut in March 2004. Mmm, I expect him to take his place among the Living Glory. :strong: No mark so far.
 

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Thanks. :) Why hasn't Flavius debuted yet? :confused: He will replace Gay very soon. He's a direct back up to our current right-back, Contra, and if you remember he set up Mutu's goal after a good run against Ukraine back in August. Watch the clip. If you don't have it tell me and I'll post a link. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Raven said:
Thanks. :) Why hasn't Flavius debuted yet? :confused: He will replace Gay very soon. He's a direct back up to our current right-back, Contra, and if you remember he set up Mutu's goal after a good run against Ukraine back in August. Watch the clip. If you don't have it tell me and I'll post a link. :)
'Cos Ukrainian League will resume only in March, that's the point. :tongue:

What about Stoikan's future, I should be only delighted if a stronger player comes to the club. By the way, I hope you know Shakhtar signed Flavius immediately after being defeated by his former club Dinamo Bucurest?? :groan:
 

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Kostja said:
'Cos Ukrainian League will resume only in March, that's the point. :tongue:

What about Stoikan's future, I should be only delighted if a stronger player comes to the club. By the way, I hope you know Shakhtar signed Flavius immediately after being defeated by his former club Dinamo Bucurest?? :groan:
Yea, I know. I think a player as good as Stoican (and Razvan Rat, in fact) are wasting their time in Ukraine. They should be playing in better leagues. I would be so upset to see Razvan Rat sign permanently at the end of the season. He should go to France or Germany.

Here is your clip by the way. :) Flavius Stoican at his best.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Raven said:
Yea, I know. I think a player as good as Stoican (and Razvan Rat, in fact) are wasting their time in Ukraine. They should be playing in better leagues. I would be so upset to see Razvan Rat sign permanently at the end of the season. He should go to France or Germany.
Your speech is not new at all. Ukrainian fans got bored, fairly speaking, persuading their colleagues from Serbia and Montenegro, Croatia, Romania and even Nigeria that they often underappreciate our clubs and sometimes, I dare to say, overvalue their admired players.

At least now we have a clear example of what can happen if a Ukrainian League star leaves for a seek of the better life to the West. Isaac Okoronkwo, :star: who arrived to us as an unknown player from a widely unknown club, received an opportunity to take part in the African Nations Cup and the Japan & Korea World Cup with Nigeria NT thanks to the progress at Shakhtar. He was even seriously linked with Newcastle.

But after he expressed his desire to leave too agressively and was given a free transfer, Newcastle didn't sign him up finally. Rumours say he was ready to come back to Shakhtar, but they didn't take him after all. The last day of the transfer window he was signed for Wolverhampton Wanderers... and does a good job of polishing the bench, rarely playing for their reserve squad.

Now consider Rat is only 22 years old. Do you really believe he would satisfy the demands of the top leagues, while young Italians, Germans and Frenches rarely do?? Do you really believe he could have another chance after his insure performance in the first matches for a big club?? And, to be honest, do you suppose Donetsk is not a satisfactory place for living, not a typical European megapolis (excepting Lenin's monument at its central square :D )??

Good luck and please keep posting.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
To coaches' joy, all international players returned to the team exactly the appointed day - on the 19th February. Moreover, Lewandowski has even managed to take part in the evening training. The 20th morning 25 players left for the training at a sport complex some ten minutes away from Juan Carlos I hotel where the team stays. Aghahowa must arrive by the end of the week - his national team was invited for the President's ceremony on the occasion of winning the bronze. Assane Ndiaye and Bielik are so far in Donetsk. Alexey is finishing a course of therapeutical rehabilitational procedures, and Assane was operated on his leg, not so complicated as they feared, as it turned out.

Bernd Schuster ran a two-sided match on a slightly shortened pitch (70x50) in the final part of Tuesday morning training. The game passed actively, the players exulted goals scored. Among them one should mention Lewandowski's header after Zakarliuka played a corner, and a powerful bottom shot by Rat that Pletikosa couldn't deny. Coaches and scientific group members certainly devoted particular attention to novices' actions - Stoikan's, Duljaj's, Kalachov's. With satisfaction one can specify Andrey Vorobey's actions. He laboured in the general group with full load after three weeks break, and along with that the coach trusted him an uneasy role of a joker in the two-sided match, like to Sergey Zakarliuka.

In Friday evening the whole team headed by Bernd Schuster who currently has his 15-year-old daughter Rebecca on a visit have attended Planet Football exhibition. For Saturday two trainings are planned, if a friendly won't be arranged.

http://www.shakhtyor.donbass.com/new.shtml?573
 

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I don't think Shakhtar is a bad team. I just think that Ukraine is a dead end for our players. Nobody turns to the Ukrainian League for players and they can't really build quality. If Rat goes to a small Franch team like Lens for example, he can build skill whilst playing against players better than him.

Anyway, Daniel Florea, if this guy is so good then why doesn't he play for our NT? Which positions can he play?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Raven said:
I don't think Shakhtar is a bad team. I just think that Ukraine is a dead end for our players. Nobody turns to the Ukrainian League for players and they can't really build quality. If Rat goes to a small Franch team like Lens for example, he can build skill whilst playing against players better than him.

Anyway, Daniel Florea, if this guy is so good then why doesn't he play for our NT? Which positions can he play?
Oh man, you have hurt the weakest place in the system of my self-defense. :yuck: Yes, right you are absolutely. The main drawback of playing for a powerful Ukrainian club is that in 90% of official matches one faces weaker teams.

I am confessed this can't even be recompensed with two facts. First, a player has a European campaign guaranteed, as e. g. last years Shakhtar had four starts in the CL qualifiers in a row. The only reason Shakhtar players are scarcely being noticed by larger clubs is that last two or three seasons were all a permanent failure.

Second, you shouldn't imagine minor Ukrainian clubs are all bands of local dumbasses; they still purchase second-class legionnaires and distinguish themselves with incredible fitness and decent tactical awareness. So, in fact it's no easy to struggle every match for a victory both at home and away. Every big club's lost point is being discussed for weeks, and serves a ground for media wars.

Well, what Shakhtar can suggest to players is mostly a salary from five to fifteen times higher than they had in Serbia and Montenegro or Romania, and a good payoff to their clubs. Mention also we don't receive top fit footballers, only useful but slightly aged like Predrag Pazin :star: or Flavius Stoican, :star: or those who have to pass a good school with their elder mates ahead and underperform for their first season or two: Mariusz Lewandowski, :star: Milan Jovanovic, :star: Razvan Rat. :star:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Raven said:

Anyway, Daniel Florea, if this guy is so good then why doesn't he play for our NT? Which positions can he play?
And a few words more about Daniel. He's the absolute competitor for his compatriot Razvan Rat - a determined left wing back. He had three or four caps for Romania NT, but it was clearly hard for him to play as a starter, because these days he had Christian Chivu :cool: :star: above him there.

Moreover, I suppose he's the kind of a player who contributes more to his club than to the National team. You know, it's never so easy to perform together with the people you don't train with. :stress:
 

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Aged? Stoican is 26. :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Raven said:
Aged? Stoican is 26. :confused:
I beg your pardon, but... :nasty: Last November Stoican celebrated his 27th anniversary. Plus those two seasons or so to get used to the sort of French or German football - and I am sad to state his move to a larger club becomes quite problematical. :( Shakhtar is still a chance, owing to his intermediate position between European monsters and the Central European clubs who bear talents for selling abroad, I think.
 

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Kostja said:
I beg your pardon, but... :nasty: Last November Stoican celebrated his 27th anniversary. Plus those two seasons or so to get used to the sort of French or German football - and I am sad to state his move to a larger club becomes quite problematical. :( Shakhtar is still a chance, owing to his intermediate position between European monsters and the Central European clubs who bear talents for selling abroad, I think.
Oh, sorry. I knew he was 26 when we played Denmark anyway. What about Florea? Where doe he play and why is he never in out NT?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Raven said:
Oh, sorry. I knew he was 26 when we played Denmark anyway. What about Florea? Where doe he play and why is he never in out NT?
Refer to the previous page for a more or less detailed description... :D
 

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Kostja said:
Refer to the previous page for a more or less detailed description... :D
Chivu plays centre-back. If Florea plays left-wing, Razvan Rat's position, and he is better than Rat, then logically Florea should be our #3. Iordanescu (NT boss) is a bit :wth: though. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Raven said:
Chivu plays centre-back. If Florea plays left-wing, Razvan Rat's position, and he is better than Rat, then logically Florea should be our #3. Iordanescu (NT boss) is a bit :wtf: though. :(
Well, I was just speaking about the events happened more than a year ago. Remember earlier Chivu played an original left wing back, and it was the very time Florea got all of his caps.

Your comparison of Florea against Rat is also slightly illogical due to the following reasons. First, Razvan Rat made a significant progress already after Florea had a cold streak and an awful injury in some months. They don't intercept in time, I want to say.

And second, even being criticised by the club supporters from time to time, Rat is an important figure for Romania NT already at his age. I guess this proves my words about a special sort of skill needed to play with badly known partners.
 

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Raven said:
I don't think Shakhtar is a bad team. I just think that Ukraine is a dead end for our players. Nobody turns to the Ukrainian League for players and they can't really build quality.
Cernat came to Dynamo from the Bucharest bench when nobody knew who he was and in Kyiv he became an established playmaker who is contributing to your National Team. The same thing with Ghioane he improved a lot from the time he came to Kyiv and grew into a tremendous central midfielder. They get enough competitive games thru out the season, playing in the Championship, Cup, Champions League and National Team. Plus they are professionals so they go were they can get more money with great conditions for training and a royal treatment. And in my opinion playing in the Champions League for Kyiv is better than for some outsider like Modena or Wolves who easily can get relegated to the second league and players are stuck playing there.
 
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