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oic
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This was bound to happen sooner or later. Serbia is a very unbalanced team but makes up for things with their attacking prowess. The approach will work against weaker second-tier teams (or teams that have defensive issues) but not against organized sides who're good in both ends of the field.

Serbia don't have the players in defense or central midfield to play end-to-end football. Milenković and Pavlović simply can't be exposed or dragged out of their positions (to the wings) in this manner. They were overcommitting to cover up for their teammates constantly. Denmark surpassed the first two lines of Serbia's defense (attack and midfield) without much work (usually with a few passes) and worked with constant rotations in order to create 1 v 1's for their wingers (especially Skov-Olsen) or numerical advantages while always arriving with a large amount of players in systematical positions in the penalty area.

There are a few really good concepts connected to the CB's in the build-up play that Stojković is trying to implement but the players lack the necessary characteristics; decent ability to move the ball but a non-existant ability to prolong the build-up they've started. They also lack the pace and ability to recover defensively when/if they lose the ball.

Another key problem for Serbia is the central midfield. These players are simply not good enough with the ball under pressure but I think the biggest problem is the lack of involvement. It might be instructions on behalf of Stojković because of Gudelj's characteristics with the ball but Lukić also failed largely in this department. None of them searched for ways to get involved; go to a wing-position to receive the ball in less crowded areas of the pitch and start the build-up from there for an example.

The pressing is more reliant on certain individuals reacting rather than it being systematically driven. That's one of the reasons why Denmark were given so much room and space to operate and switch central midfield to wing. Nørgaard and Højbjerg kept switching flanks constantly without being pressured into mistakes. Might be a good idea to look into a formation that morphs from a backline of 3 (with the ball) to a backline of 4 (without the ball) in order to cover up the deficiencies Serbia have down the wings defensively during the Nations League and leading up to the World Cup.

Andrix said:
zoric man, do you have like 5 screens in your room streaming 7 channels while simultaneously following 10 livescore websites?

:D :pp
BoRiS_ThE_BuLLetDoDgeR;6128193 said:
ZORIC!!! :proud: :proud: :proud:


Feeling depressed about Kosovo? We still have ZORIC!!! :proud:

When someone asks for the most famous Serbian exports, you answer "Slivovica, Tesla i ZORIC!!!" :proud:
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Marko3
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#314 · Mar 30, 2022 (Edited)

Looks like the seedings for Friday's World Cup draw are going to be:

Pot 1: Qatar, Brazil, Belgium, France, Argentina, England, Spain, Portugal
Pot 2: Netherlands, Denmark, Mexico, Germany, USA, Switzerland, Uruguay, Croatia
Pot 3: Senegal, Iran, Japan, Morocco, Serbia, Poland, South Korea, Tunisia
Pot 4: Canada, Cameroon, Ecuador, Saudi Arabia, Ghana, Peru/Australia/UAE, Costa Rica/New Zealand, Wales/Scotland/Ukraine

Wonder what everyone would prefer we get?


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Marko3
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#315 · Mar 30, 2022 (Edited)

My rankings, in order of difficulty, for each pot we could face (for simplicity, I will assume Peru, Costa Rica, and Wales win their playoffs):
Pot 1: Brazil, France, Argentina, Spain, England, Portugal, Belgium, Qatar
Pot 2: Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Uruguay, Croatia, Switzerland, Mexico, USA
Pot 4: Ecuador, Peru, Cameroon, Ghana, Wales, Canada, Costa Rica, Saudi Arabia

Group of Death(s):
Brazil/Germany/Cameroon
France/Uruguay/Cameroon

Group of Life(s):
Qatar/USA/Wales
Qatar/Switzerland/Costa Rica

Basically, our only chance at an "easy" group is drawing Qatar from pot 1. I think Brazil and France are the two best teams in pot 1. I'd like to avoid Argentina as well, as it increases our chances of getting a European team from pot 2. All the teams in pot 2 are pretty strong, although Germany and Netherlands stand out as the toughest to me. From pot 4, Wales wouldn't be bad considering it would mean we avoid all the European teams from Pot 1 and 2.


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DedinjeDisciple
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#316 · Mar 31, 2022

Marko3 said:
My rankings, in order of difficulty, for each pot we could face (for simplicity, I will assume Peru, Costa Rica, and Wales win their playoffs):
Pot 1: Brazil, France, Argentina, Spain, England, Portugal, Belgium, Qatar
Pot 2: Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Uruguay, Croatia, Switzerland, USA, Mexico
Pot 4: Ecuador, Peru, Cameroon, Ghana, Wales, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Costa Rica

Group of Death(s):
Brazil/Germany/Cameroon
France/Uruguay/Cameroon

Group of Life(s):
Qatar/Mexico/Tunisia
Qatar/Switzerland/Costa Rica

Basically, our only chance at an "easy" group is drawing Qatar from pot 1. I think Brazil and France are the two best teams in pot 1. I'd like to avoid Argentina as well, as it increases our chances of getting a European team from pot 2. All the teams in pot 2 are pretty strong, although Germany and Netherlands stand out as the toughest to me. From pot 4, Wales wouldn't be bad either considering it would mean we avoid all the European teams from Pot 1 and 2.
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This loss vs. Denmark has affected my outlook. Really disappointing performance and result against a good tournament team. My order by difficulty, below.

Pot 1: France, Brazil, Spain, England, Belgium, Argentina, Portugal, Qatar

Pot 2: Germany, Denmark, Netherlands, Croatia, Switzerland, Uruguay, USA, Mexico

Pot 4: Ecuador, Peru, Cameroon, Ghana, Wales, Costa Rica, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia

If we dont get Qatar from pot 1, I wouldnt mind Argentina. I cant see us beat anyone apart from Qatar though, a draw at best vs the Argies or Portugal. Tournament nerves.

Pot 2 I want Switzerland, for obvious reasons.

Pot 4 anybody apart from the South Americans.

Four points from our 3 games and avoiding a blowout loss against Pot 1 team and we can maybe get out the group. Playing Vlahovic and Mitro is a risk as we naturally lose control in midfield. Probably an unpopular opinion but I start Mitro over Vlahovic. Both vs Pot 4 if chasing a win.


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Marko3
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#317 · Mar 31, 2022 (Edited)

Probability of drawing each opponent (based on 100k simulations):



Here's a good online simulator if you want to test things about before the actual draw:
CL draw simulator
Champions League draw simulator
draw.inker.one


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Marko3
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#318 · Mar 31, 2022

zoric said:
Another key problem for Serbia is the central midfield. These players are simply not good enough with the ball under pressure but I think the biggest problem is the lack of involvement. It might be instructions on behalf of Stojković because of Gudelj's characteristics with the ball but Lukić also failed largely in this department. None of them searched for ways to get involved; go to a wing-position to receive the ball in less crowded areas of the pitch and start the build-up from there for an example.
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I think SMS was playing too high up the pitch and not involved enough. He's at his best at CM rather than AM and we seem to have more stability/balance with that additional option in the center, from both an offensive and defensive standpoint. I don't think Lukic and Gudelj are enough on their own against the better teams, especially with the defensive responsibilities Gudelj has in this formation.

zoric said:
Serbia don't have the players in defense or central midfield to play end-to-end football. Milenković and Pavlović simply can't be exposed or dragged out of their positions (to the wings) in this manner. They were overcommitting to cover up for their teammates constantly. Denmark surpassed the first two lines of Serbia's defense (attack and midfield) without much work (usually with a few passes) and worked with constant rotations in order to create 1 v 1's for their wingers (especially Skov-Olsen) or numerical advantages while always arriving with a large amount of players in systematical positions in the penalty area.
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Our tactics were too open/unbalanced and we didn't defend well enough collectively, which is something an organized and intelligent team like Denmark can exploit. It's not like we have the pace to recover in situations when we get beat either which makes things worse. There has to be more discipline instead of an all-out attacking approach which can leave us vulnerable.

zoric said:
Might be a good idea to look into a formation that morphs from a backline of 3 (with the ball) to a backline of 4 (without the ball) in order to cover up the deficiencies Serbia have down the wings defensively during the Nations League and leading up to the World Cup.
Who would you play in a defensive configuration like that? Hard for me to determine an optimal defensive setup given our current set of players.

zoric said:
There are a few really good concepts connected to the CB's in the build-up play that Stojković is trying to implement but the players lack the necessary characteristics; decent ability to move the ball but a non-existant ability to prolong the build-up they've started. They also lack the pace and ability to recover defensively when/if they lose the ball.
I think we dragged the buildup from the back for way too long at times instead of looking for the direct option, which cost us, and can lead to problems considering how prone to mistakes our defenders can be be. That's not to say we shouldn't try to build our play from the back but to show better judgement under pressure and play to our strengths (we had two large target men which were hardly utilized).

Also, Rajkovic isn't good enough with the ball at his feet with his passing and clearances (indirectly responsible for the first goal). I would like to test VMS as much as possible during the Nations League, as he's far better in this regard. Hopefully he continues to progress at Torino given that he's still a young goalkeeper.


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Marko3
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#319 · Mar 31, 2022

DedinjeDisciple said:
This loss vs. Denmark has affected my outlook. Really disappointing performance and result against a good tournament team.
I wouldn't get overly pessimistic after the game. It was definitely not a good performance and highlighted some of our weakness but, with a few adjustments, I think it could have gone differently. I'm optimistic that Piksi can adjust from it and the Nations League should give us an opportunity to improve, as Sweden and Norway are both good opponents who will try to exploit what they saw in the friendlies.

DedinjeDisciple said:
Playing Vlahovic and Mitro is a risk as we naturally lose control in midfield. Probably an unpopular opinion but I start Mitro over Vlahovic. Both vs Pot 4 if chasing a win.
I thought Mitrovic was poor in the last two friendlies. A lot of clear-cut chances that he would normally finish. Not sure if he's tired or experiencing a drop in form, but I think we would have been stronger with Vlahovic, at least in these two matches.


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Red_Bandit
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Joined Jul 23, 2002
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12,082 Posts
Discussion Starter · #320 · Apr 1, 2022

Lol will we see a Brazil Switzerland Serbia and costa Rica group again?

K®Le said:
:howler: 👍

I'm definitely right. Just imagine their pick-up lines, Andrija's would be something like 'your eyes remind me of the Nepalese flag before the Chinese invaded and started growing wild trees, do you know BTW that wild trees come from Iceland etc etc' and I imagine PV's would be, 'me man, you woman, let's get naked on the beat of Mars na Drinu.' :D
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https://www.xtratime.org/threads/world-cup-2022.489453/page-16#top
 

·
oic
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2,828 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
"Denmark surpassed the first two lines of Serbia's defense (attack and midfield) without much work (usually with a few passes) and worked with constant rotations in order to create 1 v 1's for their wingers (especially Skov-Olsen"

trust me Bro, @zoric

u dont want Vinícius júnior 1v1
 

·
oic
Joined
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2,828 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
What's this?

The Brazillian version of "Welcome to hell!" that the Turks talk about every time a Turkish team plays in Europe?
@zoric , hello.

Sorry for anything.

I am asking you humbly to teach me about Serbia.

Do u think the team that played against Denmark is the one play against Brazil?

Of course, with Vlahovic instead of Mitrovic.

I think Zivkovic is too offensive.

If we use Vini Jr. Can he defend at ALL?
 
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