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Fine Gentlemen
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Discussion Starter #1
Sauber have unveiled their 2004 challenger, the C23 - and a closer relationship with Ferrari than ever.

Sauber will use exactly the same engine as Ferrari in 2004, as well as the Scuderia's seven-speed gearbox.

The car bears an undeniable resemblance to Ferrari's F2003-GA, while driver Felipe Massa has also been borrowed from the world champions.

But it was the news that Ferrari had agreed to supply them with the very same power units that the world champions' F2004 will use that provided the biggest story of the day.

It is the first time in their eight-year association that Sauber have enjoyed parity with Ferrari's own team.

The decision is likely to have been forced on Ferrari by this year's change in engine regulations. Now powerplants must last the whole grand prix weekend, with any driver who has to change being dropped 10 places down the grid.

As usual, Sauber's engines will be rebadged Petronas and the Malaysian company's engine boss Osamu Goto said: "We are using the same model engine for the first time. Despite the new regulations, there has been a weight reduction of the engine."

Another indication of the closeness between Sauber and Ferrari is the fact that the world champions will even borrow both of the Swiss team's drivers, Massa and Giancarlo Fisichella, for testing duties in 2004.

Technical director Willy Rampf said the team had taken a pragmatic approach with the design of the new car.

He said: "Owing to the fact that we will not be able to start working in our new wind tunnel until after the roll-out of the C23, this solution made sense to us more than any other."

The car features a more tightly-packed rear end than 2003's C22 while Sauber have abandoned their twin-keel monocoque in favour of a more conventional front suspension layout.

Team boss Peter Sauber added: "Our goal for 2004 is to clearly increase our performance. How well we’ll be able to do this primarily depends on how quickly we’ll be able to translate the results of our wind tunnel work to the race track.

"Certainly, the presence of seven automotive manufacturers has made the competition in Formula 1 fiercer than ever, but we’re ready to accept this challenge."

Sauber have also unveiled two new sponsors, the port of Sokhna on the Red Sea and Chinese life insurance company Tai Kang Life.
 

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This is very interesting, very interesting. Fisichella always change to worse team but this time it seems to be more lucky decision. Sauber, yes. Massa has the advantage of experience with that engine from his test-days with Ferrari but I still do believe that Fisi is able to beat any teamate.

SAUBER :star:
 

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Fine Gentlemen
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Discussion Starter #4
Krijn said:
IMO Massa also tested with this car last season :eekani:!!!
This simply IS a Ferrari F2003B.


It is a Ferrari with a diifferent paint job and badges, Sauber will be freaking competitive...:proud:

Although I'm a Ferrari fan I do have a soft spot for Sauber but not because of it's connection with Ferrari. But because like my love for Parma...it's kind of love at first sight...me being a Ferrari fan well that just in the blood being Italian and all. :D
 

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I would prefer to see Sauber making thier own parts, for the good of the sport.

And also, isn't there some sort of rule regarding how similar the Sauber and the Ferrari can be? It's almost getting to the point where Ferrari are running a 4 car team.
 

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About this matter:
from grandprix.com
Sauber and Ferrari
The suggestion that has appeared in various magazines in recent days that the Sauber is too closely related to the 2003 Ferrari is not a surprise. Those who ventured to the Sauber launch in Salzburg last week noticed immediately that the car does have a lot of similarities with the Ferrari 2003-GA but then the new Toyota has lots of similarities with the Ferrari as well. Fast cars tend to be copied.

Proving that teams have been copying one another or even working together is virtually impossible because every car needs to be different from the others because of rule changes and different specifications. The new Sauber may have a Ferrari 2004 engine and a 2003 gearbox but this suggests that it is less likely rather than more likely that the Sauber chassis is a copy of the F2003GA, which would probably not be able to accommodate the 2004 Ferrari engine without being modified. Similarly the rear bodywork regulations have been changed significantly this year and so the shape of the Sauber cannot be a direct copy of the Ferrari.

There may be suspicions that teams have been working together but proving that is another matter.

Copying has always been a part of the sport and it is likely that it will remain so...
from pitpass.com
According to a report in British magazine Autosport, the FIA is satisfied that the similarity between the Sauber C23 and the Ferrari F2003-GA is just that, a similarity, and nothing sinister.
According to the magazine, a 'high-level source' within the FIA has revealed that the sport's governing body had been kept regularly informed during the car's design process and that everything, including paperwork, designs and manufacturing is fully legal.

"Everything is above board," the 'source' is reported as saying. "The car is not the same as the Ferrari, but it is very similar."

According to the report, rival teams have suggested that the C23 is merely a re-painted F2003-GA, though none of them seem to have aired this feeling in public.

With such restrictive design regulations there are bound to be similarities, while the fact that the C23 uses the Ferrari engine and gearbox merely adds to the problem.

Despite 'the source' dismissing the similarity between the 2004 Sauber and the 2003 Ferrari, it failed to mention the even more remarkable similarity between the 2003 Toyota and the 2002 Ferrari. An issue that is still under investigation, though not by the FIA.

Indeed the FIA's failure to make any sort of comment - even via 'a source' - seems most strange.
 

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Fine Gentlemen
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Discussion Starter #8
Shaun said:
Good i hope it quick for fisi sake and so far in testing its seem very good and Gaga do you belong to the Sauber forum?
No...
 

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Fine Gentlemen
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Discussion Starter #10
It seems Ferrari are favouring Sauber because they need a second strong team to help them with tire data with Bridgestone...since BAR left and Jordan and Minardi don't really have worries of tires but more on survival.

Tires will undoubtably be the deciding factor this season...Bridgestone need all the help they can get to get a competitive tire to help Ferrari in it's title aspirations.

Plus it's not so bad for Sauber they get help in closing the gap with the Williams...Mclaren and Renault as well as Ferrari ofcourse. ;)

It does really seem like Ferrari has given Sauber a huge leap in terms of car construction after all you can't give Sauber the same engine and gear-box and not expect them to show them how to use it most efficiently.

It will be an interesting season for sure for Sauber and Ferrari. :)
 
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