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Discussion Starter #1
:boxing:

why did PR had to **** up? Now Luxemburgo has won the brasileiro with Palmeiras, Corinthians, Cruzeiro and Santos! Whos next?

I just wonder what Luxemburgo would achieve with a team such as Milan, Juve and Inter! He would probably piss on the competition.
 

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Congratulations Santos. Luxemburgo deserves a chance at a big European team. The guy is the best coach in Brasil and one of the best in the world.







 

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Liternit said:
:boxing:

I just wonder what Luxemburgo would achieve with a team such as Milan, Juve and Inter! He would probably piss on the competition.
If it was like that, the Brazilian NT he had in his hands would be invencible. In Italy there are better coaches than in Brazil, and he wouldn't be the king with the best team on his hands, like he is here. Aside from last year, Luxa always had the best team when he won. I know he has part in creating the team, but he always has good resources and human material to make things happen.

He's the best coach in Brazil, like Capello is in Italy. But he is not the best in the world by far, like you're suggesting.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So he failed once or twice, how many coaches have won the most prestigious title with 4 different teams? also when he was behind the NT he was in the worst moment in his life with scandals and all the skeletons coming out of his closet.

And having a good team does not discredits him, there are enough examples of good teams not winning anything because of poor coaching. He might have failed some, but most of the time he is there to compete for the title and most important with good attacking football nothing I have witnessed in Italy where you claim there are much better coaches than him.

I just wonder which are the better coaches in Italy at present, Capello?
 

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were Santos worthy of winning the title this year? No
Sao Caetano and Atletico Paranese were.
Why wouldn´t Santos be the worthy winners???
League system is the best way of deciding it
and they was on top after 46 rounds
besides that they won most games,scored most goals,had best goal difference
seems clear to me

Sure Sao Caetano was unfortunate
but still what I remeber Santos was ahead of them
for most of the season anyway
 

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Discussion Starter #9
kaiserh said:
were Santos worthy of winning the title this year? No
Sao Caetano and Atletico Paranese were.
I just wonder how, since São Caetano finished under Palmeiras and São Paulo. And that Atletico was not able to win the last two games.

Did I enjoy they won, not really. But they were the deserving champs.
 

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Liternit said:
So he failed once or twice, how many coaches have won the most prestigious title with 4 different teams?
Not many coaches have won the title with 4 different teams, true. And that's why I consider him the best in Brazil, and ONE of the best in the world. I did not question his quality, but your argument of saying that if he coached a big Italian club he would "piss on the competition". I strongly disagree because there you'll find more top class coaches, like Luxa is, and much more competition than in the recent years of Brazilian league. Just like the players....or do u think that Dimba, Renaldo and Washington would beat Sheva or Adriano and be top goalscorers in Italy as well?


also when he was behind the NT he was in the worst moment in his life with scandals and all the skeletons coming out of his closet
Moments he created because of complete lack of honesty. If he got himself in trouble, you can't mention it like a natural circumstance he was victim. Bad character detracts from coaching ability, like a bad behaviour from a player like Cassano detracts from him overall. It comes with the package.


And having a good team does not discredits him, there are enough examples of good teams not winning anything because of poor coaching. He might have failed some, but most of the time he is there to compete for the title and most important with good attacking football nothing I have witnessed in Italy where you claim there are much better coaches than him.
Again I remind you that Luxa is great, a top coach, and of course he has credit for making a team full of stars work. I just mentioned that he always has the best team because in Europe it's hard to see such a thing, Milan, Juvi, Inter, even Roma, are all there, with top teams. There's no big gap like Palmeiras 93, when the team was just so much better than the rest.

About the attacking football....playing like that in Italy would be much harder, it's not like Brazil, using two wingbacks as pontas, no marking job for the playmakers and it's alright. This is exactly my point in the discussion, in Italy things are more competitive, tougher, and Luxa would NOT piss in the competition. He could win, but not like you suggested.


I just wonder which are the better coaches in Italy at present, Capello?
Today? Capello is the best. Mancini is a great coach, he is having trouble to make this Inter work, but I'm sure that with time he'll achieve a lot, he had to build a team from scratch. Lippi is also great, but he's on the NT now. Ancelotti is also very good....not to mention the power the teams have to invest, they can lure other top coaches like Wenger, Felipão, Mourinho...not today because they are employed, but I'm sure they all want to work in Italy someday. We are talking about a very prestigious league and lots of money, which unfortunately our league doesn't have.
 

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Roberto Gallo said:
Just like the players....or do u think that Dimba, Renaldo and Washington would beat Sheva or Adriano and be top goalscorers in Italy as well?
Dimba or Renaldo definitively not!

But Washington - under some very special set of circumstances (*) - could very well be top scorer in any league in the world.

(*) in a good medium-sized team, playing for him, like Bierhoff at Udinese. I cannot see Washington succeeding in a big pond such as Milan or Juve, but he could well establish himself at any UEFA Cup level team in Italy/Spain, and if the formation works on his favor, he could well become top scorer.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ancelotti a good coach? The guy has the best players in his hands yet he can´t make Milan play great football even against small sides. Watching Juve x Milan and seeing him only make one sub, Pancaro for Kaladze, when Juve was dead in the game shows how much he is not a good coach, a good one would have won that game and closed the gap Juve had. In a team that has Kaka, Shev, Pirlo, Rui and Crespo I doubt Luxemburgo would have problems making them play fluid up front.

And the whole argument that you can´t have an attack minded team in Italy is feeble, its their style how they play football and although have proven to be effective it has been proved that can be beaten by a more attacking style of football. Just like the same holds true for defensive football in SA, it can work but usually teams are more attack oriented because of the culture not because it brings better results. Any style used properly can work, Once Caldas/Chelsea and other teams have proved in the past that a different style can be sucessfull

Also the whole piss in the competition was an hyperbole if you did not get it, even though he might not win things he would certainly make a team such a Milan much more atractive to watch while still being competitive.
 

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Liter, Luxa's coaching has some weaknesses too.

Remember how many times Palmeiras lost to "lesser teams" before they won the Libertadores under Scolari!

I actually think he is near genius when picking the players, but as a field coach he is not very impressive. To make Deivid, Robinho, Elano, Leo and Ricardinho score 100+ goals against the opposition they faced at the Brasileiro does not require a genious, does it?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
it does
 

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Liternit said:
Ancelotti a good coach? The guy has the best players in his hands yet he can´t make Milan play great football even against small sides. Watching Juve x Milan and seeing him only make one sub, Pancaro for Kaladze, when Juve was dead in the game shows how much he is not a good coach, a good one would have won that game and closed the gap Juve had. In a team that has Kaka, Shev, .
i second that! what an ugly game that was! the game was an insult to every football fan
 

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saying that washing robinho and dimba cannot be the top scorer in italy is silly. who would have thought adriano would be today the topscorer in italy?


ps: adriano is just an average player. the guy has some serious technical limitations that should be addressed.
 

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Liternit said:
Ancelotti a good coach? The guy has the best players in his hands yet he can´t make Milan play great football even against small sides. Watching Juve x Milan and seeing him only make one sub, Pancaro for Kaladze, when Juve was dead in the game shows how much he is not a good coach, a good one would have won that game and closed the gap Juve had. In a team that has Kaka, Shev, Pirlo, Rui and Crespo I doubt Luxemburgo would have problems making them play fluid up front.
Oh sure....his team dominated the game and played better football than the opposition, so he should be blamed...sure sure....

Juventus has the strongest defense in Europe. Not scoring against them is normal to any team in the world, but dominating them and deserving to win like Milan did is a great achievement. About the one sub, the team was playing well. Ancelotti is not a retard to change a team who is having a dominating performance, and put everyone upfront to be killed in a counter-attack.

Ancelotti is a very offensive coach, even more offensive than Luxemburgo. The fact that he plays a midfield with 3 offensive players, two offensive wingbacks and two strikers proves that. Luxa doesn't do this, not even in Brazil, where he always uses 2 mad dogs in his midfields. And Milan never playing beautiful football? Last week they played against Fiorentina, you should watch this game.

And the whole argument that you can´t have an attack minded team in Italy is feeble, its their style how they play football and although have proven to be effective it has been proved that can be beaten by a more attacking style of football. Just like the same holds true for defensive football in SA, it can work but usually teams are more attack oriented because of the culture not because it brings better results. Any style used properly can work, Once Caldas/Chelsea and other teams have proved in the past that a different style can be sucessfull
Liternit, time passes and he's still the same, changing the meaning of what other people say. Where did I say that you can't have an attacking minded team in Italy? I said it's harder to have success playing offensively there, and this is a fact. The game is much tougher, tactical and even more technical when it comes to the big teams. It's harder to make the opponent not score, because there is more quality to stop. So it's a bigger risk to play offensively. That's all.

Also the whole piss in the competition was an hyperbole if you did not get it, even though he might not win things he would certainly make a team such a Milan much more atractive to watch while still being competitive.
Yeah, just as attractive as his NT was....

Luxemburgo will only prove to me that he's a genius when he crushes top level opposition like you've said he would do. Until there, he's "just" one of the best.
 

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brazil_forever said:
saying that washing robinho and dimba cannot be the top scorer in italy is silly. who would have thought adriano would be today the topscorer in italy?
Robinho is fantastic, he can be topgoalscorer anywhere he wants. But Dimba top goalscorer in Italy? Not even on Serie B.

About Adriano, I would have thought that. Like everyone laughed at me when I defended his first call at NT, like everyone here laughed at me last year when I said he was better than Luis Fabiano.


ps: adriano is just an average player. the guy has some serious technical limitations that should be addressed.
I'll remember that.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
The team up front was abismal. Not subbing Kaka, not trying to get some game on the left with Serginho is just a couple of examples. Juve could not get a simple pass, Milan did not dominate anything Juve handed them the possetion but all they could do was 2 shots on target in 90min. And as for Ancelotti being more offensive, he fields players with good attacking abilities but he never plays to their best, in the Juve game Pirlo/Seedorf hardly went upfront in the second half. Also you keep mentioning the oposition Santos faced, yet you pick the Fiorentina game to prove Milan can play attractive football?

And the thing about Juves defence, Emerson was giving away passes in front of the defense and yet none could take advantage, Zebina was a joke aswell. So much for more though and technical

And again you bring the NT experience, aside from a couple of bad results Luxemburgo was always able to make his teams effective and a joy to watch. Something hardly all the coaches you consider more than him ever achieved.

Care to enlighten why its a fact that attacking football is harder in Italy? more than a tradition in Italy for another style. Just like its quite possible to play in EPL a slower controlled tempo of the game, but most teams player fast football because thats the identity, not because its harder.

The whole thing about being harder and thougher is only but an opinion, with great quality you can push any style with sucess in any league. Of course certain leagues will have a preference for a style, but because its their culture not because its much more effective, if that was the case we would always have a CL winner from one style.
 
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