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Fantasy Liga Txampion
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Today the council of Bilbao have made public their decission about the lot of the "Feria de Muestras" the old Exhibition Center of Bilbao, a bigger one has been made in Barakaldo, the BEC.

In part of the Feria de Muestras grounds (and the actual San Mamés) they´ll make the new San Mamés, that is, just next to the actual one, rotated 90º:



The picture shows San Mamés and part of the Feria de Muestras which are the buildings on the top right of the picture. BasqueWolf for example will remember it because the "Athletic Eguna" the Osasuna day was celebrated in one of those buildings.

The new San Mamés will be a modern stadium that will count with 52.000 seats (40.000 now) and they expect it to be finished for the 2009/2010 season although for the first 3 months of that season it will count with 40.000 seats since one of the backs of the new stadium will be placed in the lot of the current San Mamés, and they have to wait for the end of the 08/09 season to start the construction of that part to guarantee that the current 33.000 socios always have a seat during all the process.

In the end they haven´t chosen the idea of the irani architect Zaha Zahi of remodelating the current San Mamés because according to the board they´d have to demolish the main tribune, the one with more seats which also has the changing rooms, press room, museum etc.. and Athletic would have to play a whole season without it..

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San Mamés (the cathedral of football!) is one of those few mythicall stadiums still alive in Europe, a stadium where you breathe football in every corner, a stadium that has been stepped by the best players since 1913, the stadium that has seen all those Athletic heroes grow, the stadium who´s first scorer was Rafael Moreno "Pichichi". San Mamés has "something" that creates an atmosphere for football games difficult to find anywhere else, something that added to the passionate people that meet there every 15 days gives Athletic many points every season. Unfortunately San Mamés won´t be centenary.:(

I´ve always been against the new stadium, San Mamés means so many things and is so important for Athletic that is hard to say bye to it. I admit San Mamés has turned small for Athletic, (which turns into expensive tickets) it can be uncomfortable for some people (small seats and not too much place for the legs) and it´s a dangerous stadium (the stadium that takes more time to evacuate in the league) in case someday something happens. In any case I´d be for a remodelation but not for a new one...

Every time I hear the words "modern stadium" a :irritate: expression comes to my face, I don´t like most of those new stadiums, they can be as good as you want for an architecture contest but not to play football. I´m even more worried when I read that they take Shalke´s stadium as example for the new San Mamés, I haven´t been there but watching the games on tv you see that the first row is like 3 meters higher than the pitch! in San Mamés Athletic players can shake hands with the fans from inside the pitch when we score a goal. If we´re going to have a new stadium I want it as close to the pitch and as vertical as the law permits (And I don´t give a shit if UEFA doesn´t give us 5 stars to celebrate finals or stuff like that) to have an atmosphere as similar as possible to our San Mamés, although the same will be imposible.

Last, if there has to be a new stadium for Athletic at least they´ve chosen the moment to make it. What I mean is that the reorganization of the Feria de Muestra´s lot permits us to have the new stadium still in the center of the city, and not even that, just few meters next to the current stadium. With the lack of land in Bilbao for new construction it´s probable that if they´d chose to make it in the future they´d have to make it outside the city.
 

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i agree txupa, the old traditional style of stadium with atmosphere is dying :frownani: it is the same with Anfield :depress:, i hate tihs modern stadium concept but understand that economically it has to be done as football is changing, but still it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. san mames is only one of few stadiums in la liga that can generate an atmosphere.
 

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i too am disheartend by the news. for example between me my brother and my dad we have been to nearly every football stadium in england(not all but most). and my brother and my farther said to me that" they couldnt believe the atmosphere in san mames that day, it was the best they had experienced"( on par with only a few wolves games like the playoff final in cardiff).
But im afraid now clubs are not only wanting the ground to be a "CATHEDERAL OF FOOTBALL" they want it to be a buisness park aswell and fit as many people into it as possible. like txupa said if they make it like schalkes sure it will be shiny and new and it could have a retractable pitch and all the gyzmos in the world but if it doesnt have an atmosphere and feel like our own i dont think it will work. maybe we should have faith in the people who run the club and hope they will now let us down, i just hope it doesnt end up like man city's ground which is big new and looks nice but i the worst place to play football cus there is absolutley no atmosphere . AUPA ATHLETIC !!!!!!!!!
 

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Not that I'm in favour or against a new stadium as yet. However, there are a few points we must consider carefully:

- Don't forget that it is usually the supporters that create the atmosphere. Of course, the stadium itself plays a role, but I'd give a bit more credit to our "parish"!

- If I understood correctly there's not going to be an athletics track, something which will undoubtely help things in the first point above.

- Unfortunately we can't ignore what football has become: Huge business! We need the bloody money. No matter how close the players are to the badge and the people. If we want to keep our policy/philosophy we have to pay them big euros, plus perhaps sign others when the need arises. Unfortunately Lezama is not the goose that lays the golden eggs all the time. A new stadium would help in the income department, at least in theory.

That's all I can think without much giving it much more thought. Only the columnist from Mundo Deportivo wonders whether it would be worth building a whole new and very expensive stadium only to have 10-12k more seats! I think he may have a point there....
 

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Noooo. :(

Can't the socios do anything about this? Don't they have a voice? The Sam Mames is one of the most traditional stadiums in Spain and is even a symbol, I'd hate to see it demolished. :depress:
 

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inigo said:
Not that I'm in favour or against a new stadium as yet. However, there are a few points we must consider carefully:

- Don't forget that it is usually the supporters that create the atmosphere. Of course, the stadium itself plays a role, but I'd give a bit more credit to our "parish"!

- If I understood correctly there's not going to be an athletics track, something which will undoubtely help things in the first point above.

- Unfortunately we can't ignore what football has become: Huge business! We need the bloody money. No matter how close the players are to the badge and the people. If we want to keep our policy/philosophy we have to pay them big euros, plus perhaps sign others when the need arises. Unfortunately Lezama is not the goose that lays the golden eggs all the time. A new stadium would help in the income department, at least in theory.

That's all I can think without much giving it much more thought. Only the columnist from Mundo Deportivo wonders whether it would be worth building a whole new and very expensive stadium only to have 10-12k more seats! I think he may have a point there....
I agree with most of this.

Would 12,000 seats make a big difference? I mean, when Barça left Les Corts for the Camp Nou, it was the same. Les Corts were a temple for Barça, but that stadium had reached its maximum and wasn't enough for an increasing social mass. But I don't know if it's worth to give such an important step for 12,000 seats.

The designed is something that could be solved. Schalke's stands are far from the pitch and they have a 3 mt wall or something like this. But it doesn't have to be this way, look at the Allianz Arena, for example. The new Bayern stadium is a work of art in the outside and it's amazing for football in the inside.

Leaving home is always hard... I wish you choose wisely what you do. Look at other experiences, like Real Sociedad.
 

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I'm really against 'new modern stadiums', modern stadiums can be nice and beautifull, but I can't think about an example at the moment, says enough... about wrong examples, Txupa named the Schalke stadium, BasqueWolf the ManCity one, I can add the Ajax one from Holland (and Vitesse, Groningen, etc), of course the fans create the atmosphere, but in some stadiums you can sing as loud as you want, it's just impossible to create a nice atmosphere, especially one comparable to the current one in San Mamés.

It's all about business, money, Athletic is unique because they don't pay too much attention on that part, of course we do, but in our own way, not as 'concerns' like Real Madrid or Man Utd. for example.

Athletic is a traditional club. Like Txupa said, in every corner of the stadium of the corner you breathe football, a very large part of our history can be found there, not even things like the museum etc, but just the memories... it will be all gone :frownani: , is it all worth that?

Txupa said:
I´m even more worried when I read that they take Shalke´s stadium as example for the new San Mamés, I haven´t been there but watching the games on tv you see that the first row is like 3 meters higher than the pitch!
On this pic though, it looks like the pitch will be very close to the stands if I'm right, for what it's worth...



inigo said:
That's all I can think without much giving it much more thought. Only the columnist from Mundo Deportivo wonders whether it would be worth building a whole new and very expensive stadium only to have 10-12k more seats! I think he may have a point there....
Don't forget, 12000 more is still 30% more, and on the other hand, could we fill a 60/70000 capacity stadium? What I mean is, there's nothing as awfull as half empty stadiums.

L=Pheno said:
Can't the socios do anything about this? Don't they have a voice? The Sam Mames is one of the most traditional stadiums in Spain and is even a symbol, I'd hate to see it demolished.
Exactly my thoughts, how about that, does the socios have something to say, does the opinion of the majority of the socios count? Or not at all?

Finally, a positive note, if it really goes through, and the stadium will be there in 2009, this means Knoert travelling to Euskadi before 2009, I can't live without having seen and experienced San Mamés in real life :D :thumbsup: .

btw, thanks Txupa for the info & Bio for the pics :thumbsup: .
 

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there is alot of stadiums from along time ago going away...calderon,mestalla,san mames.....i hope one day they take away camp nou and bernabeu and dont make anything after it :D :D
 

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Sad, but this the sign of the times. Here in NYC, they are rebuilding New York Yankee Baseball Stadium which is as revered and loved by New Yorkers

Are they keeping the San Mames name?
 

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It will be very sad if this goes ahead. My experience with Celtic is that sine the new stadium has been built the atmosphere except at big games is dire. Fair enough the quality of opposition is poor but Partick Thistle have never been world beaters. Sadly also the argument is 'it’s the supporters that makes the atmosphere' yes to an extent but what you find is it’s a 'new breed' of fan that come along. It’s like redevelopment in working-class areas it’s the yuppies that move in. This new breed doesn’t have the same passion for Celtic. They see it as an alternative to going to the cinema. Park the car have a pre match McDonalds leave 5minutes before the end 'to beat the traffic' etc. They dont drink in the Gallowgate(area of celtic pubs near Celtic park) as its too rough etc

Along with this the marketing of the club and the board are at complete contradiction with the fans. Recently Celtic Ultras 'The Jungle Bhoys'(a new formed group to try and get the atmosphere back at Celtic park) has a Celtic fans against fascism banner. Sadly we were told by the stewards that it was not allowed as it was 'political' :rollani: Sadly the board are at odd with most the fans although as I said above their is also an influx of 'new breed' middleclass fans who would never have came 15 years ago who are 'customers' not 'supporters' who have a similar ideological viewpoint as the board :frownani: Sadly they are the ones with the money and can pay to have a say what goes on as the old saying goes 'money talks'.

I just hope this does not happen at Athletic
 

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Heres an example of what I am talking about with the sanatization of Celtic.

Article taken from the Scotland on Sunday - This really has gone to far now! I suppose turning up with a jumper or T Shirt with Guevara on maybe get you turned away!

Guerrilla warfare as Che Guevara banned from games

EDDIE BARNES
POLITICAL EDITOR
FLAGS or scarves bearing political images such as Che Guevara have been banned from football grounds as a result of anti-sectarian laws designed to crackdown on religious bigots.

The communist South American guerrilla fighter is among the more bizarre victims of the new laws, which are supposed to be aimed at preventing fans from displaying inflammatory religious imagery.

However, regulations also stipulate that anything "political" must also be banned, meaning that Guevara - whose image has been worn by Celtic fans in the past - has now been ruled out of bounds.

Flags backing the Palestinian Liberation Organisation, sometimes displayed by Celtic supporters, also fall within the remit of the ban. The prohibition was highlighted by one Celtic fan and member of the Scottish Socialist Party, who recently attempted to buy a flag bearing Guevara's image at Hampden park.

Wullie McGartland said: "I asked one of the sellers if he knew where I could get one.

"He told me to wait there while he went into a box under the table, then pulled out the very scarf I'd spent 20 minutes looking for."

He went on: "I asked him why the scarves were not on display, only to be told that the council had banned them for being 'overtly political' as part of the crackdown on sectarianism."

Glasgow City Council confirmed that licensing rules for street traders now prevent them from selling political imagery at football matches.

The rules state that no flags or scarves can be sold which have a "political, racial, religious or sectarian content or which could reasonably be construed as inciting".

McGartland added: "I don't understand what the bold Che has got to do with it [sectarianism]. There is no mention on the scarf of the IRA or anything else from across the water - just a picture of Che, his name and Hasta La Victoria Siempre [Always toward victory]."

He added: "Maybe the New Labour-run council doesn't like being reminded of what a real socialist looks like."

The regulations on selling sectarian material in Scotland were introduced in 2003.

Exclusion zones are now operating outside all of Glasgow's three main football grounds: Celtic Park, Ibrox and Hampden.

Tommy Sheridan, the Scottish Socialist MSP, said: "The most iconic image of freedom and justice throughout the world is Che Guevara's image, and to ban paraphernalia of that image is dictatorship personified."

He added: "Only those in authority who want to maintain that authority have anything to fear from Che Guevara. This is a ban too far."

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.co...fm?id=544692006
 

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BasqueWolf said:
Book my on that trip too knoert :) :thumbsup:
Don't worry about that ;) :thumbsup: .

o maeliosa said:
Sadly we were told by the stewards that it was not allowed as it was 'political' :rollani:
Here in Holland I'm not even allowed to take my Ikurriña to matches, bleh. :rolleyes: Just as Palestinian and Israeli flags are forbidden too...

However, I get your point, a new stadium could change the whole atmosphere around games as well, because of a lot of factors like you said, hopefully it won't happen, but it will be hard to avoid that I think.

Anyways, the idea makes me still sad... a new San Mamés :rolleyes: , it can't be true... is it definite by the way?
 

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The stewards have been hostile to the Ikurriña at Celtic park also. Although we are allowed to wave it but some stewards are morons that would be lucky to get employed on a police line up to be honest.
 

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Fantasy Liga Txampion
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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
The seats number is an estimation from the council´s architects based on the meters destined to the stadium, then the final capacity depends on the architect(s) chosen by the club skills to enter more or less people in those meters. If I´m not wrong UEFA asks for 53,000 seats to be able to host european finals, so I suppose they will try to make it for at least 53,001.

As I commented one of the reasons of taking the decission now was that this is the last chance of making the new stadium in the same place where it is now, in a very good location inside the city with all what that means in terms of pre-match atmosphere. Lately the 'fashion' is making the stadiums outside the cities, having therefore all the cheap meters for big stadiums you want (with the possibility of adding shopping stores, cinemas, hotels etc...) but a total lack of atmosphere outside the stadium and often bad communications, something that for example I´ve seen happening in Anoeta.

The meters for the new San Mamés are reduced because the council wants also to make other things in that zone, some houses buildings, a park and new buildings of the university if I'm not wrong so apparently there´s no chance of having more meters for the stadium.

Therefore, what has been done is the approval of the destination of that lot for the new stadium, and an estimation of how could be the new stadium but the final design of the stadium still has to be done. I don´t know if the club will ask an architect or they´ll make a poll between several options as Arrate did in the past. Wouldn´t be a bad a idea if they use the past models (2 from Norman Foster and one from Calatrava if I´m not wrong) to have an idea and then give the final design to someone from here, who I´m sure will have more caution with the "having good atmosphere part" than the "good looking" one. But I´m sure Lamikiz will want a famous architect to do something special so it appears in all the architecture magazines instead of worrying about having something as similar to San Mamés as possible.

As has been commented, making a big stadium can be good for some games but in others it could be half empty, with the lack of atmosphere that creates. I think around 55,000 can be a good number, considerably bigger stadium and still something that can be filled every game. Then of course, make it for possible remodelations in the future, even if it has to be upwards due to the lack of space.

Knoert said:
Exactly my thoughts, how about that, does the socios have something to say, does the opinion of the majority of the socios count? Or not at all?
Logically this has to be approved by the socios but I´m sure they´ll approve it. The club will use the several (valid) points they have to make the new stadium and will hide the sentimental ones. They will say that one day we´ll have to leave San Mamés because it´s not safe and it´s impossible to remodelate it (according to them, not to Zahi). They will comment the economical one (including a reduction of the socio carnet) and they will say this is our last chance of making the new stadium inside Bilbao, if we leave it for the future it´ll have to be done outside the city. I think it will be enough to make people vote yes.

o maeliosa said:
but what you find is it’s a 'new breed' of fan that come along. It’s like redevelopment in working-class areas it’s the yuppies that move in. This new breed doesn’t have the same passion for Celtic. They see it as an alternative to going to the cinema. Park the car have a pre match McDonalds leave 5minutes before the end 'to beat the traffic' etc. They dont drink in the
I don´t know... Nowadays, San Mamés is getting small for Athletic, that´s something clear when you see the huge demand to be socios, the huge amount of people in the waiting lists. Of course this great demand makes the tickets more expensive, something difficult to reach by young people.

There´s a great demand but few people stop being socios, which means that every year the average age of people that go to San Mamés is higher, and the new ones who enter, the ones that can afford it, are not precisely young.

A good amount of the socios arrived in the last remodelation of San Mamés (early 80s) and of course time passes and when people turns older it´s harder for them to scream, sing, jump etc.. for 90 minutes.;) Still, San Mamés is one of the stadiums with better atmosphere in Europe though.

A new stadium (on theory) will mean first, the entrance of new young socios, and the reduction of prices, including special prices for young people, which would theoretically improve the atmosphere, I repeat, theoretically...



I hope they make a place for the arc in the new stadium.:(

 
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