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Discussion Starter #1
In principle I'm pro introduction of salary cap.

The wages not followed by the performance is what is killing Lazio's financies. For the first 9 months of the financial year Lazio's losses amounts to 45 million Euro's. (note to the ones who are thinking about which players Lazio will buy with the money of the players sold. The sale of current players will first have to cover for these losses, at least in theory;)).

Most of the Lazio fans here will agree that many players are just over-paid compared to their performance on the pitch. This is a tricky thing to discuss, and there are many variables involved.

But what happens in this case? Apparently, Lazio is trying to re-negotiate Deki's contract which is due to expire in 2004. Lazio is offering an extention till 2006, which is great move, but at the same time they want to keep his salary at the same level (1.5 million Euros a year). Deki's agent refused to even consider the offer.

Here we have a reversal of the issue. YOU have to pay players that do perform.

Crag, i just bloody hope you know what you are doing.....
 

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I am 100% for a salary cap! But in some cases players actually deserve more, as with Stankovic. A pure performance based salary seems the key to this, just as many commerical company's have.... you play well, you get payed more! Just a basic salary for the players and anyone who rises above the others gets more. That would seem the best way to deal with this. Then the players who only care about money will finally be motivated to do their best. And if they don't, or don't want to, they can leave to a club that is willing to pay them millions for running around the field doing nothing.... Real Madrid anyone? ;)
 

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Reasonable perspective Boyo, but how do you define who's doing well ?

If Lazio beat's Perugia 4-0 at home with Deki and Simeone scoring two goals each and they are otherwise rather absent from the game, and Fiore plays a cracker but without delivering any of the assists- then how do you determine who get's what ?
And with the defenders getting a clean sheet- is it them or Giannichedda and the boys in central midfield who should get the credit ? Or Peruzzi ?

It's not a company where you can reward the division making the biggest profits, nor is it a purely individual perspective like salesmen getting percentages. It's a teameffort.

I understand the performance based salary when we're talking coaches, but it's extremely tricky with regards to players.

Interesting post aca :).

Ciao.
 

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Well, if a player get more than what he deserves, everyone will complaint, especially other players ... the most difficult thing will be matching salary to player's performance since everyone doesn't have the same standard in it.

Some players think they deserve more as some players think the other way. The best thing is to force the rule to anyone and I believe sooner or later, all players will understand and know the LIMIT.
 

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Galliani have said that milan in the future will only negotiate performance based contracts. Ancelotti is on an contract like that.

that may be the way of the future and something I support. For Ancelotti it is based on how good Milan do in competitions.
 

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Glen said:
but how do you define who's doing well ?
True, that is not always easy. But the same way players are rated by the sports media after a game can also be done by the club. As you said football is a team sport, so how can there be such huge differences in the players salary? I belief that only an exeptional performance can justify a higher salary. The club should evaluate their players performance after each match and based on that decide the height of their salary (basic, or basic+bonus) at the end of the month (or week). There are many factors to be taken into account during such an evaluation, the strenght of the opposing team is just one of them. Often in the past the difference in salaries have caused unhappiness among the other players, with just a basic salary and performance based bonusses this too can be prevented. But most important of all: a situation where the worst player earns the most (Mendieta) won't happen again with such a system. Still, I am fully aware that such a revolutionary measure won't be taken by the club any time soon (if ever), most likely we'll just see an end to the astronomic amounts some high profile players make... but still leaving the differences with what their teammates make intact, and still running the risk of paying a failure millions that he's not worth. In other words, it doesn't sovle the problem it just makes it smaller.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
"I am fine at Lazio and I am ready to earn less than I am currently doing in order to stay at Lazio. It's not that if I earn less I won't afford to eat anymore."

Alessandro Nesta


Everyone wants to know what he/she is taking home at the end of the month. Players are no different to this. I first wouldnt accept a job where i will be paid for the "collective achievement" rather than for my own effort. Performance of one player will deeply depend on the effort of others & vice versa.

Bringing in an "objective" ruling at the end of the month about someone's performance is hardly possible too. There would be too many variables involved, and "sucsess" of the team on the pitch can be actually seen only at the end of the season. Setting "objective" goals for each & every month as a would be difficult too. The form of players goes up & down, there are injuries to think about, performance of the opponent changes too. From the begining of the season till the end, things can change up-side down hundred times.

Now, i said already that i do agree, in principle, with salary cap. But the issue has to be approached in an extremly carefull manner. Deki was a bench warmer for many years. This season he actually showed what he's capable of. He's young & he can do better in the future. Now, his salary was decided upon while he was sitting on the bench. Is it fair to expect him to earn the same salary although his game improved ten-fold? I dont think so. This was his moment, and he has every right to cash in on it. He bloody earned it. He does not deserve to be the "victim" of the circumstances & his agent's reply to the offer proves this. Thats just not the way you do business. That's just not the way you engage PPL & expect them to do better. Talent hunt is the main issue in the game called football. And talent cost money.

so how to go about it? i wish i knew the answer. :D

The only way i can envisage this thing to work is introducing the form of bonuses & rewards for the achievement. Give players "fixed" basic salary. He like anybody else expects secure income. Than introduce bonus for victory, placement in the league, goal scored. Introduce "insurance" for the case of injury, not only for the team, but for the player also. and so on...

This still leaves many problems, already mentioned. Assisting the goal, good defending and so on....how will you quantify that & express it in monetary terms? i dont know the answer, but the way Crag is going about Deki's contract is wrong for sure.....
 

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To pay a player by his achievements on the field - unfortunately impossible, 'cause who judges that? A judgement of that is never objective and fair.

And if I was a player asking for a certain amount of money and the club is willing to pay that to me - I wouldn't reject either.

The question of what a player is doing for the money he earns, on and offside the field, is a question of character though and imo that also defines a great player.

For example I don't have a problem if Alessandro Nesta earns twice of what he already is paid every month, I just know that he will always give everything for Lazio. He is worth all that money somehow, cause he pays it back in many ways. And the statement Aca just quoted here proves that.

The salaries in almost every professional sport are totally out of hand and can't be compared to the one of an ordinary working man or woman, that's not only a problem in professional football. And can't be solveed by professional football.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This started as a Lazio topic, but I'm moving it to the debate forum. There is a lot to talk about on this issue;):)
 

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Salary caps won't work - we saw that in Britain until the 1960s. The top players left for Italy, where they could earn four times as much, and could receive as much in signing-on fees than they did in the rest of their careers.

If a system of a maximum wage were to be introduced, it would have to be global - of that there is no doubt. The problem occurs if there are disagreements. For example, I imagine that River Plate, Boca Juniors, Independiente, and all Argentinian clubs for that matter, want to keep the maximum wage low, as the economic crisis is crippling the country. They may want to set it at £15,000 a week - reasonable considering the finances available at the moment. The Italian, Spanish, and English clubs, may wish to set the limit at £50,000 a week. Therefore, no agreement will be made, and the Argentinian league will become THE place to be for any ex-international stars wanting to end their careers in a non-strenuous enviornment to earn lots of money (like Japan, Kuwait, or USA are now), though maybe non-strenuous can't apply to Argentina.

The financial problems seem not to occur here in England to the big clubs - but to the smaller ones instead. There are no Real Madrids or Lazios in our league, in terms of finances. They are all shrewdly-run businesses that ALL make operating profits. This said, they aren't huge, faceless corporations.

The real problem here is that of the smaller clubs. Teams in the Third Division are poorly supported, with only a matter of 5,000 or so people watching their games. Compared to the bigger teams of the Italian Serie C2, these teams aren't well supported. In the Italian equivalent teams, you can find teams with 30,000 capacity stadia. No such stadia over here in the lower leagues! Now that the ITV-Digital deal has collapsed, the teams no longer receive any money for television rights, and many are on the verge of bankruptcy. This could be where a salary cap is needed.
 

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A mandatory salary cap for all teams... that's a lot different from what we've discussed so far. It's an interesting twist though. But for such a measure to work here it would have to be imposed by a national football association... and which country is going to be the first to do this? All countries would have to decide this together at the same time otherwise it would scare high-priced players away to countries that don't have such a measure. Football in Europe is not like the NBA where there are only a few dozen teams. In the series A to C in Italy there are already some 150 teams, so throughout Europe that would come to many thousands... who's gonna control that? Also there could be some judicial problems with this idea, while such a measure might be legal in one country, it could be illegal in the other. etc. Furthermore this would mean that a team like Real Madrid would have the same max. salary as a bottom table team from Belgium (for example). Surely certain teams and leagues will be strongly opposed to such a measure. There are just too many prospective problems for it to work. So I doubt this is the sort of salary cap we'll see with European teams.
 

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A mandatory salary cap for all teams... that's a lot different from what we've discussed so far. It's an interesting twist though. But for such a measure to work here it would have to be imposed by a national football association... and which country is going to be the first to do this? All countries would have to decide this together at the same time otherwise it would scare high-priced players away to countries that don't have such a measure.
I didn't intend to suggest that NBA model should be the exact one followed, but rather as an example of how a much more complicated set of rules can be put in place and work out fine. No one will have to force clubs into accepting something like this, it'll simply become a necessity and the clubs will recognize that. Besides, FIFA and the continental associations could decide to put these regulations in place, much like they did with Bosman ruling and the recent changes in transfer market.

Football in Europe is not like the NBA where there are only a few dozen teams. In the series A to C in Italy there are already some 150 teams, so throughout Europe that would come to many thousands... who's gonna control that?
National associations can easily control this. There may be 150 professional teams in Italy, but there's only 18 in Serie A. The league should be able to control that.

Furthermore this would mean that a team like Real Madrid would have the same max. salary as a bottom table team from Belgium (for example).
I don't see a problem here. Salary cap is just a number you can't go over, it doesn't mean you have to be exactly at that amount. Let me demonstrate. If the salary cap is set, at say, 300 thousand pounds a week, Real Madrid may have all their senior players' contracts add up to 290 thousand. A team like Brighton might have their contracts add up to 30 thousand.

The point is, nothing but their ability to play is stopping Brighton from having their contracts add up to the same number as Real Madrid. Since they can't, they'll simply choose to acquire players who are less demanding. Both teams will still abide by the rules.
 

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Oh, and another thing, what would the point of an NBA-style salary cap be?

The biggest advantage is the increase in competitivness. If you can only afford to have 2-3 world class players, you're gonna have to do a better job rearing up youngsters or discovering rough diamonds. Managerial savvy will become more important than deep pockets. I always thought that should be the point of sports.
 
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