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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,
I am a firm believer that small minded **** Macarthy orchestrated Roy's sending home to ireland.I am hoping that other people have followed the events as they unfolded with the same degree of disbelief as me.
Roy has shown throughout his career that he had the hunger and desire to go to the top of his game.Ultimately his hunger for success and his quest for perefection were to prove his downfall.
Roy wanted the team to prepare as if their lives depended on it,**** wanted the team to relax and go get dtrunk the odd night,
Roy wanted to win the world cup,**** wanted to compete in a world cup,Roy wanted the football association of ireland to wake up and become more professional,**** wanted to maintain a status qou,Roy believed that bringing the inefficiences out into the open would force the FAI to shape up,alas **** took this as a personal insult to himself who had been an integral part of the sham set up that was Saipan.After Roy told the press of his frustration with the lack of the type of facilities he had become accustomed to with Man U.Well we now know the truth of what **** felt was the correct response,obiviously the answer was to call his captains ambition to play for his Country into question.**** in his wisdom decided that roys knee injury was faked before the second match against Iran and that Roy should apologise to his team mates for feigning injury.
Being Irish i would have been surprised if Roy did noy lose the rag,unfortunately **** also knew what the response was going to be(just what he set out to get).I wonder if the mature players that **** was confiding in when this was all taking place will ever give the true story of the cloak and dagger stuff which was taking place behind Roys back.
Last thought for any doubters,the only reason Gary Kelly got into the team was because he supported Macarthy unreserevedly after the Keane affair,Is this how proper managers choose their teams or do they pick teams on players abilities.If it is the latter then i suggest you look at S Finnan and try to find a facet of the game in which he is not far superior to G Kelly.As roy knew,friendship is more important to getting a place on the team than skill.(stay friendly with **** or go).It is when Ireland has a manager with the same attitudee as keane that ireland will become a force in world soccer.With roy in japan it may well have happened this year but for ****.
GOODBYE ****
 

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Given the volatile nature of this topic, I'm a bit hesitant to respond, but let me offer a few words.

While I can appreciate both points of view, are you really sure that Roy Keane's (if what you say is correct) view is the way things should have gone

While I agree that philosophy, coaching, desire, and various other intangibles are particularly important in short competition such as the cup (just look at the difference between Nigeria and Korea), do you reall think you had the talent this year to advance further than you did? Irealand was most impressive, especially with their draw against germany.

I am, like you a bit disturbed at what I have read about MM. In particular the incident that Keane described that occured in USA94. On the other hand, and I think this is REALLY important, is what Keane did, the best thing possible for the team? I'll explain...

Lets say I agree totally with Keane and his philosophy of winning as opposed to competing. What did 'all this' get him? Walking out on the team, claiming that was happy to be going home, not issuing an apology and rejoining the team when he could have, etc?

I guess what I was trying to say is, imagine if there had been no outburst, Keano had led Ireland to the QF or SF, and retired after the Euro.. He could have taken an administrative role later on in his career, be it coach, head of the Football Assoc, etc. His popularity would have allowed him to do alot. He could have made the changes necessary. Of course, that is 20/20 hindsight for me. Additionally, what makes athletes so great is that they are usually opportunistic, and don't tend to overthink problems. So perhaps this was too much to ask of ANYONE..

In the final analysis I do agree with Keane, no matter what your current stature, you have to prepare for ultimate victory, even if you do it in a low-key manner. After all, isnt that what competition is all about. That, and dealing with the failure of not achieving it.

Perhaps the point in the above paragraph is best summed by looking at the faces of the footballers after LOSING a game. In some cases you notice 'joy' for 'just being in the knockout phase', in others you notice complete agony. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see players 'happy' that they just lost a knockout phase game.. or even those that arrive home to a parade. I'd much rather see 'my team' show some stoic, stony faced determination with at the most, a sarcastic smile. In other words, in my mind, those teams that are eliminated sould be, in deserved cases, 'content' with their performance, but certainly not 'satisfied'. I hope I have made the difference clear.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about the players, coaches, etc... NOT THE FANS... some fans take this game waaay to seriously.
 

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I agree with Keane on the points he made about their training facilities and stuff, but he went about voicing his concern completly the wrong way - and after that his behaviour towards McCarthy (and Bonnar) was diabolical.

There is no doubt that Keane is the best Irish player by far, but i do believe that if he had remained with the squad then Ireland would not have got out of the group stage. Their main strenght was their unity and togetherness and having Keane there would have destroyed that, as well as undermining the coach's authority (especially crucial since McCarthy made tactical changes at half time that got them a result against Cameroon and Germany - if the players, led by Keane were not respectful of the managers authority then there is no way they would have reacted as they did in the 2nd half of those matches)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
While i agree with both the replys to a certain degree,i still feel Roy was shafted.If we look at the part **** played in this as a manager it may become clearer as to what went wrong.
(1)Irish take part in Quinn testemonial without Roy,**** knows of Roys absence but fails to notify anyone of it.
(2)Irish team arrive in Dublin airport where Roy hears snide comments about his lack of respect for his team mates as a result of not playing in testemonial.
(3)Team have to wait in lounge for over 2 hours as no prior arrangements for a speedy boarding from airport had been made,Roy shows aggitation by sitting on the floor with his belongings.
(4)Arrival in Saipan brings team to a type of holiday resort which raises questions on how serious particapation in cup is taken.
(5)Roy speaks to **** privately about his concern with the lack of facilities stating that team mates had told him of their fears also.
Firstly the pitch was not good enough,then the lack of footballs,the lack of training equipment,ect,ect.
(6)**** tells Roy that the first week was for rest and recreation rather than all out preparation.
**** Macarthy is responsible for all of the above as a manager.This is before there was any outburst from Roy.The rest and recreation response was not good enough as Roy knew that **** personally choose Saipan which had no soccer pitch 6 months before.The pitch they were training on was a car park at Christmas.This is what was at the heart of the issue,they did not enjoy each others company before the cup yet they got on with the job.**** did not want Roy in the team from this time on.He felt insulted by what Roy had said about the facilities.Roy then questioned the goalkeepers training after which he said he wanted to go home.**** immediately called a replacement rather than get to the bottom of the problem.**** showed Roy that he did not want him there.Trough mediation Roy was persuaded to stay by FAI officials.when **** was told he said Roy should go as he had called a replacement.FAI persuaded **** to change his mind.All happy you would think.Two days later and we all know what happened.
***** accusation that Roy was not suffering from a knee injury before the Iran game was to me a stand up and fight call.This was said by the manager to his captain before the whole squad.Roy had discussed his grieveiences with the manager in private,yet here was the manager attacking him in front of the squad.What happened next was the only reason that **** needed to send Roy home.It was orchestrated such that keane was isolated in front of his team mates.His responce was deplorable as was the sequence of events which led up to **** entering the room seemingly with the blessing of some of the other members of the squad to get at Roy.Niall,Steve and Gary,hang your heads in shame.There was a lot happening between the Monday and the Thursday behind the scenes to oust Roy.We may never find out the whole truth but remember **** was the one with all the power throughout the journey.The only person who could have kept Roy in Japan was **** and he never wanted him in the team.**** used roy to get him to the world cup and then discarded him without ever fighting to keep him.Thats the manager of the Republic of Ireland.
Roy should go to anger management classes to learn how to deal with intense verbal situations while **** should go to a priest and ask for Gods forgiveness.
Slainte
 
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