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Discussion Starter #1
The team is confirmed:

Gomes

Maicon Edu Alex Maxwell

Elano Paulo Almeida

Diego

Robinho Dagoberto Daniel Carvalho
 

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I thinnk we could have a better selection, but the time to criticize is gone, now we have to support!
PRA FRENTE BRASIL PORRA, VAMO GANHAR MAIS UMA!

Anyone remembers that goal that Alex scored in that 4x2 against Argentina in PreOlympic 2000? :D
 

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Oh, and I forgot to say that I'm very happy that we are trying na offensive line up. We are Brasil, we should dictating the rythim of the game.
 

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There is too things....

I am waiting to see how will Daniel Carvalho will be - he just come out of the victory in the WC and he may be less fit than the rest of the players (in the end all of them are going to be very tired but for example Maxwell). And of Course, if Dagoberto is fully recovered he will be ok as well and not tired.
The offensive formation is full of players than can hold the ball for long, a lot of speed, movimentation, skill (Robinho will not be alone in the moves to make Galvao Bueno happy). But they lack some physical power and conclusion. This may be problem - not against Venezuela. Not because the overall quality of them, but because they have been always a speed/light style of game and always very fair.
 

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I'm curious to see how this lineup will work. It has lots of light and tecnhical players but lacks power, like JCamilo said.

I'm guessing it should be like this:
----------------------Gomes--------------------------
--Maicon------Dracena----Alex-------Maxwell---
--------------------------Paulo Almeida-------------
-------------Elano------------------------------------
----------------------Diego-------D. Carvalho------
-----------Dagoberto---------Robinho-------------

If it works this way, it should be more like 4-2-2-2 than the 4-2-1-3 like some are saying.

Since Brazil is aiming to press the oponent all the time, a powerful centerforward would be interesting. Also, I think that a extra DM to play alongside Paulo Almeida and give more freedom to Elano's advances in the right side would make the team more balanced.

------------------------Gomes----------------------
---Maicon-----Dracena-----Alex------Maxwell--
--------------Rochemback-----Paulo Almeida---
------Elano--------------Diego---------Robinho--
-----------------------Marcel------------------------

Anyway, we have a team rich in talent and regardless of the system, we are the favorites to win the Pre-Olimpico.
 

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Can someone please post some more details about who does Brazil play in Athens04 qualifiers and when and how many teams advance? :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Bobby Cock,

Daniel Carvalho is gonna play wide in teh wing, specially against teams like venezeula who will only defend. Ricardo Gomes is right with his scheme.


Animal,

We play:

Venezuela
Chile (home country)
Uruguay
Paraguay

Oour group is much tougher than the one the argies got. Anyway, we should end up first.

Top team of each group goes automatically to next round, while second & third place will play with 2 teams of the other group to qualify for the final round. The 2 teams in the play off will join the top 2 teams in the qualifying stage and make the final round with 4 teams in the group. TOp 2 teams go to Athens 04!;)
 

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Thanks Ze. :cool:
 

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Zé Lang:
Okay, so Daniel Carvalho will be a wing. This will only make the formation even more stupid, since Robinho will be pushed to a position that is not his and Dagoberto will play as a centerforward.

Wouldn't it be wiser to use a real right wing, Elano, in his position, leave Robinho in his place as well and put a power forward instead of Dagoberto?
 

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I agree with Gallo on this, on paper the team looks too light and unbalanced. I'm realy curious to see how they do in the game.

Gomes himself already admitted that this bold system is meant specifically for the group stage, and on the knockout stage our team will be defensively tighter. I'll play Mãe Dinah too and predict that the clueless media will make a big stink when Gomes shifts to a more conservative system, wailing about how he's throwing away all our grand offensive traditions. The word "retranqueiro" will also inevitably be mentioned, the ultimate offense for a Brazilian manager. :rolleyes: If Daniel Carvalho gets benched in favour of Dudu Cearense, for example, clunkheads all over the country will boo and hiss about the "mediocrity" of a manager who takes off a forward to use a defensive mid. :stress: :sigh:

Again according to Ricardo Gomes, our system is NOT a 4-3-3, but rather a 4-2-3-1... concidentally, similar to the system Real Madrid uses. Two central mids to hold the fort and make the transition from defense, three playmakers/forwards (one on each wing and one floating around the center, in our case Carvalho-Diego-Robinho) and one area man (in our case Dagoberto). Now, I have some problems with that. Unlike Gallo, Robinho's positioning isn't one of my problems: I believe he can perform that function just fine, in fact I think Robinho's positioning was one of Gomes' primary concerns when choosing this system, as it's very suited for players like Carvalho and Robinho. ;) But I'm not sure Elano can provide the defensive consistence his holding position will demand. As for Dagoberto... the kid's excellent, but I'm afraid that he may be too lightweight for that target-man position.

I hope I'm wrong, but this team doesn't look very solid to me. Is Elano supposed to perform the same function performed by Renato in Santos?
:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Roberto Gallo said:


Wouldn't it be wiser to use a real right wing, Elano, in his position, leave Robinho in his place as well and put a power forward instead of Dagoberto?
Bobby Cock,

Since when Elano is a REAL right wing?? Are yuo on drugs with the amount of stupidity you post??

And why will Robinho be out of position... he is not a left wing but a support forward. Were did you take taht he is a left wing:wallbang: Was it because you saw a scheme in the paper and he was in the left hand side:eek: :eek: :howler: :howler: :howler: :howler:

The only player that is out of position is Dagoberto... but as RG will be rotating the attack all the time he will be able to play his normal game.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Garrincha,

I find it easier for him to drop Robinho to the bench and keep daniel carvalho in the pitch.

As for Elano, he will do the function that Kleberson did in the WC. I thought you liked that Garrincha. And he can do that with no problem. It is a 3 man midfield, putting Fabio Arrocha e Bate with Paulo Almeida will make our midfield to slow, uncreative, and full of thugs.

Anyway, RG has said that this scheme is probably only for the first game. If I was him, I would probably drop Robinho and put Nilmar putting Dagoberto in midfield to help Diego organize the team.

And let the Inter duo massacre the hispanics from South America;) :cool:
 

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Ze da Fiel said:
Since when Elano is a REAL right wing??
Actually I consider Elano mostly a right-wing, too. Of course, a very versatile winger, but still... that's the position I associate him with. What do you think is his best position then? :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Elano is not a right wing and has never been one. He a right offensive mid, that closes well the middle and marks the left back out of the game.

He is very versatile, he can play as right back, DM, right offensive mid and sometimes right wing (which is not his speciality)
 

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Ze da Fiel, cool off....why are you so nervous? Is it because your team is doing so poor in the transfer market or are you really worried about the Olympic Team? I know that what you really wanted was Jamelli and Robert getting fake IDs so they could play the Pre-Olympics alongside Jo, Bobo and Abuda, making the real SUPER TEAM.

When I say right wing, I also mean right mid. Elano plays wide open in Santos midfield, like Robinho does in the left side (of course Elano has a more defensive role than Robinho, but the way I see it, both of them and Diego are playmakers; and it's not just me, Tostão and PVC mentioned several times that Santos plays in a 4-2-3-1 system, as opposed to the 4-4-2 that so many people see).

And no, Elano will not do what Kléberson did. Kléberson had way more freedom since he had 3 defenders and a anchorman behind him. The role of a "segundo-volante" in a 3-5-2 is way different than in a 4-4-2.

I don't know why people want Daniel Carvalho so badly in this team....he's not that big deal yet. He's a good player who has potential to develop into a great one.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Roberto Gallo said:
Ze da Fiel, cool off....why are you so nervous? Is it because your team is doing so poor in the transfer market or are you really worried about the Olympic Team? I know that what you really wanted was Jamelli and Robert getting fake IDs so they could play the Pre-Olympics alongside Jo, Bobo and Abuda, making the real SUPER TEAM.
Nervous with what?? At least Citadini can sign players with no money in the bank, while your team sings almost no one as usual. And people still get angry with the loss of someone as useless as Guilherme. BTW, Robert and Jamelli are leaving Corinthians for your info, so why did you even bring them up...... FREGUES

Jcamilo..... i'm only respoding to provocations...nothing against Atletico fans... apart from our friend Bobby Cock and his loads of BS

Roberto Gallo said:

When I say right wing, I also mean right mid. Elano plays wide open in Santos midfield, like Robinho does in the left side (of course Elano has a more defensive role than Robinho, but the way I see it, both of them and Diego are playmakers; and it's not just me, Tostão and PVC mentioned several times that Santos plays in a 4-2-3-1 system, as opposed to the 4-4-2 that so many people see)..
That's new... Robinho and Elano have the same role on the opposite side of the pitch..... go and buy some glasses please.

Btw, Even Renato can be considered a playmaker in the Santos team. The definition of a playmaker is quite subjective.

Roberto Gallo said:

And no, Elano will not do what Kléberson did. Kléberson had way more freedom since he had 3 defenders and a anchorman behind him. The role of a "segundo-volante" in a 3-5-2 is way different than in a 4-4-2..
Elano will have the same function as Kleberson did in the WC, which was the same function Vampeta had in Corinthians in 2002 with Parreira.... no big mistery there! He will attack and defend being quite conservative most of the time. And will also cover the gaps that will be left in midfield with 3 attacking forwards.

Roberto Gallo said:

I don't know why people want Daniel Carvalho so badly in this team....he's not that big deal yet. He's a good player who has potential to develop into a great one.
People want him because he is good....simple as that:wallbang:
 

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Nervous with what?? At least Citadini can sign players with no money in the bank, while your team sings almost no one as usual. And people still get angry with the loss of someone as useless as Guilherme. BTW, Robert and Jamelli are leaving Corinthians for your info, so why did you even bring them up...... FREGUES
Citadini can't sign players with no money, all he can do is sign ex-players. If my team is signing "crap" players like Wagner from Guarani, your team is getting their reserves like Rafael Silva. And when both teams look for the same player, like Zé Luís from Marília and Alex Mineiro, you know what happens.

The reason I brought Jamelli and Robert here is because I know your love affair with them, when you said that Corinthians built a super team when Citadini got them.


That's new... Robinho and Elano have the same role on the opposite side of the pitch..... go and buy some glasses please.
That's new for someone who only watches Timeco playing and only hear the comments of Casagrande and Chico Lang. Elano and Robinho are considered wings in Santos, playmakers which play in the flanks. Robinho is much more offensive, of course. Like Giggs is more ofensive than Beckham but both were considered playmakers in Man Utd.

Elano will have the same function as Kleberson did in the WC, which was the same function Vampeta had in Corinthians in 2002 with Parreira.... no big mistery there! He will attack and defend being quite conservative most of the time. And will also cover the gaps that will be left in midfield with 3 attacking forwards.
There's no mystery. If you have 3 defenders and one anchorman behind you, you have more freedom to attack than you have with only two defenders and one defensive mid by your side. Simple as that.
 

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Roberto and Ze, stop or take this somewhere else.

A few things:

Right Mid, and right wing is not the same thing to some and it is to others.
IMO, a winger is more of a ponteiro, playing 433.
Right mid is a side midfielder on 442.

Dagoberto is not an "area" man, but the U20 team played with Daniel C. and Dagoberto upfront in the Sudamericana and we were the most prolific team. And Robinho can score nowadays.

Adriano/Ronaldo is probably gonna be in the olympics, so if the team works, I'm guessing Ricardo Gomes would drop Daniel C. for Adriano and put Robinho on the left wing (where he normally plays). (something like this --- Dagoberto-Adriano/Ronaldo-Robinho).
 

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End3r7:
Actually wing is an expression used for players who play in the flanks.

Anyway, my point was that Elano plays wide open in the right side, like Bekcham did in his Man Utd times or in the England NT. It doesn't matter if it is in the mid or upfront, I was talking about a "balance" thing, mentioning sides.

Elano is one of the few side midfielders in the Brazilian football. In Europe, the playmakers usually play wide open like "ponteiros mais recuados" and the defensive mids are normally more creative and play more advanced than they do in Brazil. The midfield in most Italian teams is like a line, while in Brazil it's more like a square in most teams.
 
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