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Discussion Starter #1
David Beckham and Michael Owen are world class players, but Becks hasn't hit form for three months, and is no world beater and lacks complete skill, and Owen is injury prone - too much hangs on just two players. Paul Scholes, Steven Gerrard and Rio Ferdinand are capable of being brilliant, but Scholes and Gerrard are not playing superb and to their full potential, that too for international level, and Rio is still liable to make a very costly mistake here or there.

But aside from those five, the England team is made up of has-beens and no-marks. This means more than half of the side is not good enough. There is potential among some of the other plays (Joe Cole, Ashley Cole, Kieron Dyer, Jermaine Defoe) but none of them have yet reached a consistent enough level of performance to be considered true international class.

But Seaman (who WILL keep his place) is an aged liability who is perfectly capable of costing England any game. Sol Campbell looks half the player he used to, Ashley is great going forward but still can't defend, Gary Neville only gets in the side through a lack of competition and Emile Heskey couldn't hit the target if he was the only player on the pitch.

Contrast this to sides like France, Argentina and even Italy - how many make-weights are theere in their teams?

England have the potential to be genuine contenders in 2006, but this time around has come too soon.And, don't get me wrong, no-one would be cheering louder than me if we DID shock the world and bring the cup home, but I just don't believe we can win it.

The reason why England won't win it is due to the lack of strength in depth - if Owen or Beckham get injured we're screwed. Ex: If Argentina lose Batistuta they bring in Saviola, if France lose Lizarazu they bring in Candela. If we lose Owen we bring in...Andy Cole.

The problem isn't the coach - it's the players, who just aren't good enough, and the fans, who have entirely unrealistic expectations.
England have a (small) handful of decent players. Beckham, Owen, Scholes, Gerrard, maybe Ferdinand or Dyer. That's the lot. Why the nation thinks we have some kind of right to be challenging for eveyr honour going is beyond me.

Of course, it'd be nice if we could. But we need to face facts and realise that teams like Argentina and FRance have NO weak links and have an infinitely better chance than we do.

And that is not the fault of the coach. England has flattered to decieve for more than a decade. Hoddle failed, Taylor failed, Keegan failed, Venables (one result against the Dutch aside - and that was on home soil) failed. That's not because they are bad managers (though in some cases, stand up Kevin and Gleen, I think they are) but because English players simply are not that good.

The last time we looked a force in world football was Italia '90. And that was a team which included genuine world-class greats like Bryan Robson, Peter Shilton, Des Walker, Paul Gascoigne and Gary Lineker. We don't have that kind of quality now, and shouldn't expect the results to match.


Now its about time you english fans learned how to take a fvcking hint and also learn that your team doesnt stand a very fair chance to win the world cup. one win over germany, and its 1966 again...for gods sake wake up. england are far behind the best...they wont be able to cope with the pressure in japan/korea...if they scamper out of their group, second round will see france tear england apart.

sorry english fans...you have no chance in hell.
 
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OneManGang

You say that England is team of has beens, how can the youngest team in the World Cup this year can be a team of has beens?

You are telling English fans what English fans already know. maybe not 2002 because our team and squad is very young. But it will reach its peak in 2006.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
i am fully aware that the english have an excellent youth team, but it will take a while for these talented young stars to perform. like you said and i agree that they will be at their peaks in 2006 and england will have an excellent chance of winning some silverware (finally) but in 2002...not a chance. the english side lacks the depth and consistency to be a top side in 2002.
 

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I agree that England has very little chance of winning the WC this year....however, i also feel that England will be a team to be reckoned with in 2006......I dont see England going past the second round this WC.
 

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OneManGang said:
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The reason why England won't win it is due to the lack of strength in depth - if Owen or Beckham get injured we're screwed. Ex: If Argentina lose Batistuta they bring in Saviola, if France lose Lizarazu they bring in Candela. If we lose Owen we bring in...Andy Cole.

come on...Saviola? The guy is currently, well overrated. He's no batistuta.
 
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Re: Re: Reality - England's World Cup Chances (what Chances?!)

Fred Elliot said:


come on...Saviola? The guy is currently, well overrated. He's no batistuta.
Don't worry Fred, it's just another newbie poster taking a dig at the England National Team.

I think OneManGang spouted a load of crap to tell you the truth. But I cannot be bothered to quote him. For instance, Gary Neville won't even be going to the World Cup.

The French, Portuguese, Mexican, Spanish, and other coaches have actually listed England as one of the favourites to hold the trophy. (I will find the link if you want)

Other than that, there are people this year apart from the jocks who really don't want England to do well in the World Cup. They always mention that English fans have unrealistic expectations. It's not that, English fans are just very patriotic.

Depite having the youngest team in the world cup, if England win it, it will be a miracle. But we don't need people coming on this forum and trying to get an argument out of everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
dejackass...please spare me ur opinions on what i think about england. gary neville is injured true, but england have no other decent defender to play in his position. england had received the same kind of hype in '98 and '90, but the fact is they cannot play as a team, and their whole squad relies too much on a few individuals and lacks depth to be one of the best. i wouldnt mind seeing england win the world cup, its just that it cannot happen.

fred...its more then obvious u have never seen saviola play in the junior world cup or even in river plate where he was part of the famous 'fantastic four' among juan pablo angel, ariel ortega, and pablo aimar. the man has been labelled as the 'new maradona', and at barca he has been excellent so far this season...next season he will be even better since he will start more matches instead of being used a sub in some of the home/away games. batistuta is no longer at his peak...
 
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OneManGang said:
dejackass...please spare me ur opinions on what i think about england. gary neville is injured true, but england have no other decent defender to play in his position. england had received the same kind of hype in '98 and '90, but the fact is they cannot play as a team, and their whole squad relies too much on a few individuals and lacks depth to be one of the best. i wouldnt mind seeing england win the world cup, its just that it cannot happen.
Normally I don't waist time on people like you, but since I'm in the mood well

Englands chances for the World Cup? Depends what team turns up, England are more than capable of beating everyone on their day. 3-0 against Spain, 4-0 against Mexico, 5-1 against Germany, 4-0 against Paraguay. These are the results that has got Englands repuation, because they played perfect in all.

There is a lot of hype surrounding the England squad in every world cup, no matter where you go. True there was hype in 1998, but their wasn't in 1990. Obviously you were too young, so you don't know (explain in the Barca forum)

But I will explain to your anyway, in 1989 Bobby Robson was slaughtered in the press because of poor results including Euro 88'. Their was no hype surrounding England going into the World Cup. England however were one of the better teams and only lost to West Germany in the Semifinals to penalties. (Germany went on to Win the World Cup)

In 1998, their was hype surrounding England because they were a decent team who were only beaten by Germany on penalties two years before in Euro 96' Semifinal. (Again Germany went on to win it)
England proved that they were a good team after drawing 2-2 to the highly rated Argentina team. Playing half the match with 10 men and getting a goal dissalowed by Sol Campbell. Again England lost on penalties.

David Beckham and Michael Owen are world class players, but Becks hasn't hit form for three months, and is no world beater and lacks complete skill.
David Beckham hasn't hit form in three months? Have you seen any of his goals in the Prem before his injury? Not to mention the goal against Deportivo. Even Fergie has said that Beckham has played brilliant recently.

Paul Scholes, Steven Gerrard and Rio Ferdinand are capable of being brilliant, but Scholes and Gerrard are not playing superb and to their full potential,
Paul Scholes maybe not playing at his very best, but that doesn't mean he won't sooner or later. The last four week he hasn't played too great. But he has been more important for United than Veron has this season.
Steven Gerrard isn't playing to his best? Did you see him play against Paraguay? Did you see him play at all this season? (probable answer: "I'm just guessing)

But aside from those five, the England team is made up of has-beens and no-marks. This means more than half of the side is not good enough. There is potential among some of the other plays (Joe Cole, Ashley Cole, Kieron Dyer, Jermaine Defoe) but none of them have yet reached a consistent enough level of performance to be considered true international class.
Jermaine Defoe (19/20) Joe Cole (20), Kieran Dyer (23) Ashley Cole (22) hmm, these are the players for the future. POTENTIAL yes, but what do you expect from them players. The players you mention apart from Ashley Cole, are fringe players, you are commentating on fringe players. But I suppose these are the only players you probably read about on the internet and not actually seen them play.

The reason why England won't win it is due to the lack of strength in depth - if Owen or Beckham get injured we're screwed. Ex: If Argentina lose Batistuta they bring in Saviola, if France lose Lizarazu they bring in Candela. If we lose Owen we bring in...Andy Cole.
Andy Cole isn't even coming to the World Cup, which means that he is fifth/sixth in place. not second like you mention.

Emile Heskey couldn't hit the target if he was the only player on the pitch.
And you base this on? Heskey has pace, strength, and more or less everything requered for a striker and he scores goals.

The problem isn't the coach - it's the players, who just aren't good enough, and the fans, who have entirely unrealistic expectations.
You don't know anything about the fans or the players. And it's clear that your nothing more than a troll.

That's the lot. Why the nation thinks we have some kind of right to be challenging for eveyr honour going is beyond me.
Another stupid comment.

The last time we looked a force in world football was Italia '90. And that was a team which included genuine world-class greats like Bryan Robson, Peter Shilton, Des Walker, Paul Gascoigne and Gary Lineker. We don't have that kind of quality now, and shouldn't expect the results to match.
Yes Italia 90' was when England has experienced players. This year they will have the youngest ever.

Now its about time you english fans learned how to take a fvcking hint and also learn that your team doesnt stand a very fair chance to win the world cup.
First you talk about we we we, then you say your national team.

I thought you were English? Another clear sign of a troll.

sorry english fans...you have no chance in hell.
Yet another sign of a troll.

Onemangang, you have been a troll in the Barcelona forum, Italian forum, and it is very clear in this forum. I've just been stupid enough to reply.

Your just another newbie foreigner who just doesn't like England at all and has no idea about England players. You've just mentioned players that everyone knows. But failed to mention other players. Steve Mcmanaman won't be going to the World Cup, which show you that England have enough strentgh in depth not to take a Real Madrid player.
 

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There is somethings that I want to agree with and others that I want to dismiss with this thread.

Firstly I do agree that England has little chance of winning the tournament and this is in large due to the lack of depth in the squad... it is better for me than it was but I still think that the loss of Owen, Gerrard or Beckham will hit them harder than any other teams.

Gerrards form of late has been absolutley world class and the fact that you say otherwise is just wrong... true he was no-where to be seen against Spurs but that was down to his biggest fault... the fact is he was injured and IMO there is little chance that he will start all of Englands group games.

And I agree Beckham has been shocking for the last few weeks... I wonder why?

On the plus side though is that Stevie is never out for nore than a few days so if England do progress then he should be fit for the matches latter on...

So England don't have a chance but IMO this outs them in the same bracket as Spain and Portugal would be in... great teams but for different reasons by the final stages they may lack something...

Above this group would be Brazil and... well France. I have said that the French are lucky, especially in winning France 98 but they combine this with a good team BUT i also think that Lemerre sticking with players such as Dugarry and Djorkaef is a mistake and he should take Robert!

The point that I also want to make is this stupid saying that 2006 will be our year... that's not the way to look at it as who knows what will happen between now and then.
Yes there are good young players but they might not make it for various reasons... a lot can happen.

After Euro 96 I remember people saying that England would be a force by '02... stop putting things off... and saying 06 as some sort of consialtion.

Finally A Cole is a superb player and so is Rio... Sol has been injured and had a great game against Chelsea in the F.A cup. Dyer is untested at let midfield but was superb for England when he played for them a couple of years ago and Scholes si a type of player that every team loves to have...

I mean yes Englands problem is strength and depth but your analysis is simply wrong in places... the biggest problem that England face is the fact that some starters are likely to get injured at some point:

Look at the hopeful team for the first game:

Seaman - injury prone year
G Neville - not going as is injured
A Cole - just come back from injury yet again... scheduled to get injured soon.
Rio - just come back from injury
Sol - just come back from injury
Beckham - still injured
Dyer - had big injury, came back, got injured again but now is OK (fingers crossed)
Gerrard - prone to injury
Scholes - ok (my God)
Owen - dodgy hamstrings
Heskey - just come back from injury but normally ok.

my god... this team would keep Dads Army busy for a week;)

and there you have the biggest problem
 

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Yeah...yeah...yeah....yada....yada...yada.....
DeJackal.....it's true when in their best day England beat Germany 5-1, Spain 3-0, Mexico 4-0, Paraguay 4-0.
But........your opponents were not on their best at all........
Frankly, if you meet Germansy again I don't think England will beat them easily! I think it can go either way..... and so is against Spain.
As for Paraguay & Mexico, if all teams are on their best I think England will still win.

As this is reality so we have to face the facts that England chances to win it are slim.

My final verdict:
Knocked out of the WC in 2nd round if they meet France, but if they don't meet France maybe QF.

The best final in the WC final will be:
1) Italia vs Argentina or
2) Italia vs France
 

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Yes their chances are slim along with every other teams but 4... Brazil (only if Ronaldo is fit), France (if they are lucky again), Italy and Argentina...

They do however have the team that could go on and reach the latter stages (Q/finals, S/finals) along with the likes of Spain and Portugal but hard to see beyond this:(

If they do play Germany they will not beat them easily but I would still expect them to win...
 
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Everyone fails to see that England have the yonngest team in the world cup. No one is saying that England is going to win the world cup (only foreign coaches).

What I don't like is trolls coming in this forum (normally yanks) and spouting a load of crap that clearly shows they hate the national team and know nothing about England or the England nationa team
 

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What annoys me is the presumption that every England fan thinks that they are going to win the World Cup as people assume that the English are 'arrogant'... simply not the case I'm afraid and I'm not even English...

Sheesh who would have thought a Welshman would be defending the English ;)
 
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Yeah...yeah...yeah....yada....yada...yada.....
DeJackal.....it's true when in their best day England beat Germany 5-1, Spain 3-0, Mexico 4-0, Paraguay 4-0.
But........your opponents were not on their best at all
Oh look, it's the very patriotic yank that somehow likes to support the Italian national team. (another one that hates england as was shown last month)

BTW, since when England are the favorites to win the WC in 2002?

Follow these links:

Click here
Who will win the World Cup?
Important nations like Brazil, Argentina, Italy and England should be in contention, as we will. Our players still have the same burning desire to be at the top and we are determined to defend our title. I'm reassured that we still have the spirit and the willingness to put in the extra effort required, and the modesty
Another coach

Who will win the World Cup?
England have one of the best teams ever and the influence of Eriksson will make a difference with players who are highly competitive and without peer, mentally and physically. France must be favourites to reach the Final. They are a compact team, very disciplined and consistent winners. And, of course, Argentina, who instead of having a typical Argentinian coach now have a tactical disciplinarian. Ninety per cent of their players are now used to the hard work and discipline of playing in Europe
Yet another coach


Who will win the World Cup?
All my thoughts are centred on June 5, 10 and 14, our Group D games. People keep saying that Portugal are among the favourites. We can dream - nobody can take that away from us - but the history of Portuguese football tells us to be careful. One of the most advanced football nations may win - Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Germany, England, Italy and, perhaps, us.
Do you want me to get anymore?
 
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Here's my favourite

Yet another coach

I'm cautiously satisfied with our draw. Remember, we might have got in a group with sides like England, Portugal and Denmark. The first game will be the riskiest for us because, inevitably, all the pressure will be on us. Remember, too, that Ecuador are bound to be fired up with the enthusiasm of being World Cup debutants. Croatia have always been awkward customers for Italy. There are plenty of Croat players who have played in Italy, like Boksic, Stanic, Jarni, Vugrinec, who know us well and they'll want to do well against us. Mexico are a side with lots of experience. I would hope that by the time we play them, the match has not become decisive for us getting into the second round.

Who will win the World Cup?
France, England, Brazil, Argentina, Italy - I think that the winner is to be found in this group. They are the strongest teams, best prepared, with the best players, the sides of tradition.
 
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Now what opinion matters most?

The Portuguese, French, Italian and Mexican National coach?

Or

or the troll , and the yank who supports Italy?





:tongue:
 

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mdelpiero10 said:
But........your opponents were not on their best at all........
Frankly, if you meet Germansy again I don't think England will beat them easily! I think it can go either way..... and so is against Spain.
oh well...if they weren't having a good day, well we better not count it as a result..:rolleyes: funny though, how they all had a bad day when they met England...
 

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As most people think, this is going to be good tournament experience for a young team.

I'll say it now, I think we'll lose in the second round to France, but we'll give a good account of ourselves in the Group Stage; winning two, but losing to Argentina, hence finishing second.

I think Argentina could win it. (By the way, Brazil's record of being the only country to win the WC outside its own continent will obviously end this summer... I cant see Japan or Korea doing it...)

Where this team should really come into its own is in Euro 04 and WC2006. I say 'should' because its highly possible that the media will find some way of getting rid of Eriksson after the summer.
 

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Fred Elliot said:


oh well...if they weren't having a good day, well we better not count it as a result..:rolleyes: funny though, how they all had a bad day when they met England...
Whoever said, every team has a bad day when they faced England?
When Holland defeated England, Holland was having a good day!
DUH!
 
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