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Discussion Starter #1
I start new thread as I think it would be better to discuss our main problems in CL, and what shall we do in order to pass Real Madrid in the fresh thread.
What I liked yesterday? Emerson and Buffon, and partly Ibrahimovic. What I didn't like?...

First of all, I am surprised how such great defenders as Thuram and Cannavaro create so many holes in our defence. Did Thuram forget how to play in the central defence? Lippi used in other position. It took nothing for Real to pass our defence, and we were very lucky to concede a single goal. Zambrotta was ok, and Zebina was not. IN brief, defence was just bad.

Guys, what happened to our midfield? Did it exist yesterday? I just saw number 8 man trying to do something, and he was the only. There were also bone-breaker maniac, and the hero of south american action movies who didn't do much...well, honesty they didn't do anything. Our main and the biggest problems is our midfield. It will be a great headache. We play too defencive, we rarely attack, and we have no creative midfielder. Don't tell me about Olivera, cause he needs to grow up to show something against Real. Nedved is the only hope, but he has some injury problems. Where are you, Maresca?..

And finally our attack. Ibrahimovic still tried to do something... but Del Piero! What was he doing? He was losing the ball everytime he received it. What happened to his great skills? Is it time to think about hanging boots, Alex? I hope not. We still need you very much, but only if you improve.


Ok, this is my view on our yesterday's poor perfomance. The match is lost, but not the battle. We have some hope, and that hope isn't groundless. Having Kapo, Nedved and Treze back in form we can show Real what we are capable of. My team for the next match would be:

Buffon

Zebina Thuram Cannavaro
Zambrotta
Blasi
Emerson

Kapo

Nedved

Trezeguet Ibrahimovic

I do hope we won't have injury problems...
 

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we sucked, but the postivie side that we only lost 1-0, Buffon kept out some clear goals.

i heard that nedved had a temporary memory loss btw!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, taking into consideration our terrible perfomance result is quite acceptable. However, 2-1 would have been much better...
 

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I think Olivera really can't play on the left side of midfield, and expecting him to do well there is a mistake.

However Nyuka, I don't think Kapo will be back in time. Nedved probably will recover from his concussion, I hope the break in his training will give him some energy.

I agree with you about Zebina. Birindelli has more pace, and might do better on Carlos then the frenchman. However, Capello likes Zebina, so probably it won't happen.

Cannavaro and Thuram will look better when they are not under constant pressure, i.e. when we can retain possession in the midfield.

Trez is also a must. With Nedved and Trez on the field, I think we might get a result.

So, my preferred team is: Buffon; Birindelli, Thuram, Cannavaro, Zambrotta; Camoranesi, Appiah, Emerson, Nedved; Ibrahimovic, Trezeguet.

Yes, I said Appiah. I think he would do well partnered with Emerson - the partnership just needs some time to gell. He was just nervous the last times he played. I wish Capello would try it out again v. Siena, but I won't hold my breath.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ralford, actually I really don't see a big difference between Appiah, Tacchinardi or Blasi. All three players are great when it comes to demolishing, and lack creativity.
 

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The failure to get an away goal could be costly. I hope to see some positive response from the players in a fortnight but based on the evidence shown thus far this season, I am not too optimistic. What the team lacked in ability they made up with character the last time. Good job, Capello ... patience is something that won't be afforded to you.

The right flank was getting killed the whole of last night. Still, Zebina HAD to play. Why not Pessotto, who did a great marking job on Zidane before? As for the midfield, the less said about it the better.

In the return leg, would be good to see Thuram back at RB, to expose Roberto Carlos (in tandem with Camo ) and wrest control of the right flank. Cannavaro will have to take care of himself and whoever partners him. Since the team enjoys clinging on to Nedved so much, might as well give the man a position he performs best in - free role behind 2 strikers, not shafted at LM. DP and Trez to start. Zlatan can come on later to rub salt into the wound or as a desperate measure. Basically, a 4-3-1-2, the same thing which clobbered the Spaniards in 2003 so no excuse about 'unfamiliar tactics'

Full flank play, decent crosses, actually getting shots on target from range, lots of aggression, 110% effort and definitely some luck should see Juve through. Some motivation would help a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Who can partner Cannavaro if Thuram plays as a RB? MONTERO?! No, that won't help us 100%.
 

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Nedved's absence hampered the attack,no doubt,but that is hardly a reason for us letting Los Merengues walk all over us like that.The midfield was invisible and Zidane and co easily got to the penalty area and created a plethora of chances.We have Raul to thank for the narrow scoreline,he could've had a hattrick.Ronaldo was poorer than expected.Del Piero played a decent first half,but the second needed alot of improvement.Zlatan was reckless as always,usually choosing the difficult and spectacular route to goal and losing possession more often than not,the defence was only able to stop them at the last possible moment by cutting out their final passes and Buffon was a little shaky,although he did well when called upon.

We really have to take the game to them if we're to win.I'd have liked a 2-1 better of course,but lets all hope that Capello can spur this team on to perform a minor miracle.
 

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Ibrahimovic did not produce. Maybe he made some nice moves, but whatever. He too was poor IMO.

I felt Camo was the best attacker, when we were able to attack. He moved the ball better than most.

Quality in midfield is why we were dominated, and we dont have a solution. Davids sits on Inter's bench, and is not on Juve's starting XI anymore. Others are not of his quality yet.
 

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I didn't see this thread earlier, so i'll just copy & past what i wrote in the match thread.

Just a few points about the return leg:

*Olivera was really sh*t, i don't think he's good enough to play for us as well. When he wasn't slipping against Real, he was making stupid passes. I know he's badly out of position on the left, but i've simply had enough of him and whatever happens he shouldn't feature anymore. We need Kapo for the next match.

*We lost the midfield battle because we gave Real too much space. Emerson was pushing up but with little effect, and that left Blasi having to cover nearly the whole middle of the park by himself as Camo and Olivera were doing nothing. A lot of people are criticizing Blasi for his hard tackling and fouling antics, but what could he do when he had to face Zidane, Figo and Gravesen basically on his own? We are going to have to keep a much tighter grip in midfield in the return tie if we stand any chance of progressing. One of the main reasons Zidane was running riot was that he had all the space in the world to do whatever he wanted.

*Our attack is devoid of method. It lacks purpose, precision and planning. We don't have a player in central midfield to spread play around and control our offensive game plan. We don't really have a game plan except to attack from the wings. Obviously this is old news, but when we get shut down on the flanks due to the crap Olivera and Camo call 'performances', there is no plan B for us to creawt chances. Even if these two were to put in decent performances against Real in Turin we'd still be very predictable and one-dimensional in attack, if we don't change things. Which makes me think we may have to change our formation to incorporate a trident. I know we haven't used it much (only once really) but the fact remains we need to score against Real, twice if we want to go through without conceding. We're going to have a hard time doing that IMO with the 4-4-2, we need something more drastic and less predictable to put Real on the backfoot. It's the best thing we can do without the playmaker we desperately need.

*The defence was excellent in the Bernabeu apart from Zebina, especially as our midfield left them exposed throughout the match. We will need a big, nay a huge game from them in Turin for us to qualify.

*Set pieces. We need to make more of the ones we get and we need to defend better on the ones we concede. Real's best chances, including the goal and Samuel's header that rattled the post were both from set pieces
 

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Although this is the 1st year I haven't been able to watch Juve games on a regular basis, I kind of get the impression that we're too Cannavaro, Zambrotta and Buffon dependant. They're always on form, making last ditch tackles (and saves in Gigi's case), thus being the most crucial aspects in determining the outcomes of matches. A win would require 1 or 2 goals at most, and that's pretty much it. OTOH, if it happens that one of the strikers (or Nedved) isn't on target...then Juve end up losing, like they did vs. Real.

Notice, none of our losses have been thrashings. All were unlucky defeats, 2-1 Reggina, 1-0 Samp, 1-0 Palermo.

So I don't feel we are in a crisis per se. We just need more creativity, as Glen clearly explained in a post match comment after the Real game...
 

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Some potential formations and line-ups:

4-4-2
-------------------Buffon------------------------
---Birindelli---Thuram---Cannavaro---Zambrotta---
---Camoranesi---Tacchinardi---Emerson----Nedved---
-----------Trezeguet---Ibrahimovic---------------

Note: The most likely line-up that Capello will use.

4-3-1-2
-------------------Buffon------------------------
---Birindelli---Thuram---Cannavaro---Zambrotta---
---------Appiah---Emerson---Kapo----------------
-----------------Nedved*-------------------------
-----------Trezeguet---Ibrahimovic---------------
*Free role.

Note: I'm not sure Kapo will be available.

4-3-3
-------------------Buffon------------------------
---Birindelli---Thuram---Cannavaro---Zambrotta---
-----Appiah--------Emerson---------Nedved------
---Ibrahimovic----Trezeguet---Del Piero----------

Note: Very attacking and unbalanced, but could be fruitful.
 

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chinq said:
DP and Trez to start. Zlatan can come on later to rub salt into the wound or as a desperate measure. Basically, a 4-3-1-2, the same thing which clobbered the Spaniards in 2003 so no excuse about 'unfamiliar tactics'
Chinq, why do you think Del Piero warrants a start?

He is too slow, can't play the ball quickly, can't hold up the ball and he simply falls over too often.

The Madrid defence will be up for it big time. They won't give Del Piero the time and space he needs to play his football. When he recieves the ball, he holds onto it waiting for someone to make a run, by that time he is closed down and either he is tackled or is pushed to the ground. Zlatan as we saw, is far stronger, holds up the ball better and with his agility and skills also gets away from the opponents.

Polaris, don't you fell that Ibrahimovich had no one to pass to when he had the ball?

I agree with anyone who thinks Zebina shouldn't play..too bad Capello will as Ralfie mentioned.
 

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Paris said:
When he recieves the ball, he holds onto it waiting for someone to make a run, by that time he is closed down and either he is tackled or is pushed to the ground.
Paris said:
Polaris, don't you fell that Ibrahimovich had no one to pass to when he had the ball?
So when Del Piero holds on to the ball 'too long' waiting for someone to make a run it's his fault, but when Ibrahimovich does it, it's everybody else's fault because he didn't have anyone to pass to. :)

The whole team was average at best. Del Piero had a decent first half, Ibrahimovich had a decent second half. There was no creation in the midfield, same old same old. Blasi's breaking of Real's attacks was absolutely terrific. :) Our 'winger' Spamoranesi couldn't deliver one decent cross into Real's area.

In 2003, we didn't play that well too in the Bernabeau, which is normal considering it was the away leg. But we had character. That character got us the away goal. One thing I don't see in Capello's team is character. Under Lippi we used to even get back from being 2-0 down. With Capello we can't equalize when we're 1-0 down.
 

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kthx said:
So when Del Piero holds on to the ball 'too long' waiting for someone to make a run it's his fault, but when Ibrahimovich does it, it's everybody else's fault because he didn't have anyone to pass to. :)

The whole team was average at best. Del Piero had a decent first half, Ibrahimovich had a decent second half. There was no creation in the midfield, same old same old. Blasi's breaking of Real's attacks was absolutely terrific. :) Our 'winger' Spamoranesi couldn't deliver one decent cross into Real's area.
Del Piero did nothing, he didn't even hold on the the ball too long. He was nonexistant against Real, at least Zlatan visibly tried to create up front and cause Real problems. He botched a few chances but he got involved, DP was just walking about doing nothing in both halves.

But at least we can agree on Blasi...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I don't think that it's even worth disucussing DP's absolutely dull perfomance. And he doesn't deserve to play in the second leg.
 

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Paris said:
Chinq, why do you think Del Piero warrants a start?

He is too slow, can't play the ball quickly, can't hold up the ball and he simply falls over too often.

The Madrid defence will be up for it big time. They won't give Del Piero the time and space he needs to play his football. When he recieves the ball, he holds onto it waiting for someone to make a run, by that time he is closed down and either he is tackled or is pushed to the ground. Zlatan as we saw, is far stronger, holds up the ball better and with his agility and skills also gets away from the opponents.

Polaris, don't you fell that Ibrahimovich had no one to pass to when he had the ball?

I agree with anyone who thinks Zebina shouldn't play..too bad Capello will as Ralfie mentioned.
Juve stands a chance but only in the collective sense and Zlatan hasn't much idea of what that is ... yet. Should the gameplan be route one, hoping for lucky 2nd bounces etc like it has been for quite some time, Zlatan is more useful. In all probability, he stands a much higher chance as a starter over DP anyway, regardless of a complete lack of understanding with his striking partner. Real Madrid's defence is there for the taking. I am still eagerly awaiting a stroke of genius from our much touted coach in the tactical sense apart from cowardice. His latest display of motivational skill leaves plenty to be desired.
 

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kthx said:
it's everybody else's fault because he didn't have anyone to pass to. :)
You've said it :kiss: :kiss:

Welcome back Kthx :)
 

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kthx summed up my thoughts about Zlatan. He was poor, in part because every one in attack was so poor. Sure he could have played the best, but not much happened. Camo needed to be more advanced. He creates a lot. Zebina caused a problem here.

Looking at possible lineups, Nero is on the right track with the 4-3-2-1. We can beat them with speed and quick passing. Kapo provides that so hopefully he will be OK to play.

I dont see a 4-3-3 happening. but who knows. 3-4-3 was crap in a Serie A match recently, so lets not even suggest a lineup for that formation.
 

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Polaris, i think you have a point about playing Camo in a more advanced position. The problem as i see it, is that our right side is a major weakness with Zebina, who didn't defend well nor contribute offensively and subsequently Camo had no one overlapping to combine with on the flank. Birindelli has been rubbish so far this season but i'm hoping against hope that Capello will play him against Siena in view of assessing him for the Real match.
As for Zlatan, i honestly don't think there was more he could have done without support moreso than anyone else. Granted he has his issues about being part of the collective, but the collective was conspicuously absent in the Bernabeu and he was the one trying the most IMO.
 
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