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Discussion Starter #1
IMO, the third best player in Brazil since the start of the video era. Only PEle and Zico were better. Proof:

-Ademir was the most complete player Brazil ever saw. He did everything equally well.
-He was the heart, soul and best player of the Academia which dominated Brazilian football for 15 years
-He won a record number of titles
-He was the ultimate teammate
-His career spanned 17 years (900+ games!) in which he played consitently well. Unlike players like Garrincha he coped very well with the change in style that occurred in the mid to late 60. He dominated in both eras, only Pele did as well.
-His NT record is flawed yes, but it's due to scandalous behaviour of Brazil's coaches


The only conclusion is that he's better than Rivelino, Garrincha, Didi, Ronaldo, romario, R. Gaucho, and all others, except Zico and Pele
 

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Why do you think he never really featured for the Seleção?
He did, but very few. The reason is simple, when Ademir started, Brazil had Botafogo and Santos as models, both styles of fast pacing football and with icons in middlefield. Ademir and Palmeiras had a ball possession, short passing kind of game (Hence the name Academy, because it was a more classical style, ie. like argies in 40) so Ademir rarelly found space (and many palmeiras players of great quality, Palmeiras was the only real adversary of Santos in São Paulo for almost the entire decade, and yet, only guys who had a househood name like Djalma Santos were regulars).

It is a bit the case with Dirceu Lopes, a great player who had no space in NT because he had Pele, Tostao, Rivelino as contenders (and in the late two, Dirceu is almost or as good).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Why do you think he never really featured for the Seleção?
Because of clear bias.

What did Rivelino ever win except two carioca titles with FLu? He rode on the back of Pele Tostao and Jairzinho during the 70 WC. If Ademir (out of position but nonetheless) would have played instead of Rivelino Brazil would have even played better during the WC70. That team was so skilled that even without either it would have won the cup. Rivelino is a hack, who never made a team betetr. During his time with Curinthians he won nothing. What has Socrates won? And so on...

Ademir made a decent team great, he won dozens of titles with Palmeiras, and depsite his own ability he never stopped thinking about the team.
 

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Because of clear bias.

What did Rivelino ever win except two carioca titles with FLu? He rode on the back of Pele Tostao and Jairzinho during the 70 WC. If Ademir (out of position but nonetheless) would have played instead of Rivelino Brazil would have even played better during the WC70. That team was so skilled that even without either it would have won the cup. Rivelino is a hack, who never made a team betetr. During his time with Curinthians he won nothing. What has Socrates won? And so on...

Ademir made a decent team great, he won dozens of titles with Palmeiras, and depsite his own ability he never stopped thinking about the team.
I really like Ademir, one of my favorite players, he was a great player. But, Rivelino is on a whole other planet than Ademir. Not even close...

Rivelino was faster, stronger, better shooter, better FK taker, better PK taker, better dribbler, better technique, Ademir was slightly better at short passes but Rivelino hit the long ones better, also a better finisher in the box

and Rivelino made the 1970 squad instead of Ademir because of all those reasons, nothing Ademir could have done to make that team better
 

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I think that Ademir's case is pretty similar to Alex (Fenerbahce) in the last decade. Both were amongst the most talented players of their respective generations, that's a fact, but both were just overlooked by NT coaches.
The only difference is that Ademir had more contestants for the NT spot than Alex.
But still, both were unrighteously overlooked.
 

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Pretty Much, and Ademir was quite good, Rivelino level no doubt. Dirceu Lopes too. Another thing that is different, is that Alex actually worked tatically under the systems that the coaches used and had some short of bad timing (he was not well in 2002 for example), Ademir (who would fight for the spot with Gerson or Didi and Clodoaldo, not Rivelino) and Palmeiras had a fast touching game, ball control, game, unlike the short speed of Santos or the long ball speed of Botafogo which are traits of Brazil during 60's.
 
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