Question....

565 Views 19 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Kappa18, Apr 12, 2002

Neo Geo

Discussion Starter · Apr 9, 2002

How is Israel part of UEFA and how so are the surrounding countries not(Lebanon, Syria, Jordan)?

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Mideast Mirage

· #2 · Apr 9, 2002

Basically it is like this.....

we used to be in the Asian Federation until the 1970's. In fact our club teams won a few Asian titles. But there were certain clubs that refused to play our teams. Also there are Asian countries that would not play our national team. So eventually we switched to Oceania. Unfortunately the distances are much too great to play in places like Taiwan, Guam, etc. Therefore our football federation asked to be admitted to UEFA. In 1992 we joined UEFA which is much more reasonable as far as travel goes. The level of play is much higher than Oceania too of course. That's it in short. The neighboring countries are not in UEFA because they can play in Asia and have never requested to enter UEFA. Simple.

Kappa18

· #3 · Apr 9, 2002

To be honest, somewhere back in the 1970's we got banned from the Asian leauges! Like you see now, that there is problems with the Oil, that is how it was. Arab leauge/ Islamic Leauge refused to play with Israel and we were still at war, like today.

We did however play only Iran who since 1979, was friendly to us! Other than that, no one in the region wanted to play with us, expect of course India/Pakistan and East Asia!

By the 1980's we had moved to the Oceana's and qualified for the 1982, 1986 and 1990 qualifications with the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

And for the 1994 World Cup we managed to compete in UEFA once again with the likes of France, Finland, Bulgaria, and Sweden!

Most of Israel's other economic and Industrial organization are more European than Asian or Middle Eastern!

If think that although we are not nato, we are a strategic partner to it. As well as the European Union!

If you ever went to Israel you would see how different it is to be compared to a place like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan!

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Gilli

· #4 · Apr 9, 2002

MM summed it up well.

We were 'thrown' away from the Asian Football federation, but until then Hapoel and Maccabi Tel Aviv did pretty well winning 3 Asian CL titles, and Israel was infact one of the nations which established this organization.

Anyways I'd just like to add, that without entering politics Kappa has a good point, Israel does have a lot in common with Europe much more then it has with other countries in the region and to add to all that Israel was a part of European Basktball much before we were admitted to UEFA. Maccabi Tel Aviv even won a couple of Europan Cups in the 1970s and so, and of course, we've always been competing in the Eurovision songs contest!

So although I am sure your intentions were pure Neo, I find it weird that some people like to adopt the atittude that Israel is part of UEFA and other Arab countries not due to descrimination.

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Mideast Mirage

· #5 · Apr 9, 2002

As usual Kappa is only partly right. When were we *banned* from Asia? Find me a link to prove it and I will take it back that you are wrong. Also most Asian countries had no trouble playing against our teams. What is true is that the Arab states (obviously) refused to play our teams as they still do. So for example when Maccabi Tel Aviv made it to the finals of the Asian Cup the opponent just by chance was ....ahem...Police Club Baghdad Iraq! They of course did not play so Maccabi won the title by forfeit. Therefore after a while Israel decided to leave Asia since you can only improve by playing good opposition and not by winning since the other team did not show up. Like I said if you can find me a link which proves that we were *banned* from Asia, I will personally apologize. Kappa is correct though that we played against Iran and even won the Asia games in football I believe in Teheran! All this changed after Khomeini. But that is another story.

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Neo Geo

Discussion Starter · #6 · Apr 9, 2002

Interesting...

But how would you describe the Israeli teams' relations with the European Islamic countries(Turkey, Bosnia, Ex-Soviet States)? Do they welcome them with open arms or do they refuse to compete as well?

Gilli

· #7 · Apr 9, 2002 (Edited)

Israel has some very good relations with Turkey not only in football. We played Turkey and Turkish teams a few times in the past and to top all that, Haim Revivo, an Israeli footballer is playing for the Turkish top club Fenerbahce. He is a real idol there after helping them to regain the title after 4 years last season and the fans absolutely worship him.

Bosnia we played in the last qualifiers as well and had no troubles, same goes for former soviet countries although you can find racial slurs from the crowd in games between Israelis and Lithuanias for instance but racism is a worldwide problem and there is nothing like that on the pitch.

BTW MM this might interest you, an informative post from the Israeli mailing list of isfa.com, written by Eran Rabl a few months ago in response to someone who asked the same as Neo. I quote

The decision to throw Israel out of the Asian Federation was taken in 1974,
and was moved by the Kuwait delegate. Until then Israel has competed in the
Asian National Championships in the senior (winning in 1964) and U-18
(winning four or five times) ages, in the Asian Champion Cups (winning two
or three times with Hapoel and Maccabi of Tel Aviv as representatives).

In the WC qualifiers, Israel was moved around quite a bit:

1934: (as Palestine) Middle-Eastern group vs. Egypt
1938: (as Palestine) European group 6 vs. Greece (winners to play Hungary)
1950: European group 3 vs. Yugoslavia (winners to play France)
1954: European group 10 vs. Yugoslavia & Greece
1958: Asia & Africa sub group 2 vs. Turkey (withdrew), 2nd round vs.
Indonesia (withdrew), Final vs. Sudan (withdrew), Playoff vs. Wales.
1962: European group 7, sub-group B vs. Cyprus (1st round), Ethiopia (2nd
round), Italy (Final)
1966: European group 1 vs. Belgium & Bulgaria
1970: Asia & Oceania group, sub-group B vs. North Korea (withdrew), New
Zealand (2nd round) & Australia (3rd round). Israel qualified.
1974: Asia & Oceania group, sub-group B vs. South Korea, Malaysia &
Thailand. Semi-final vs. Japan
1978: Asia sub-group 2 vs. South Korea & Japan
1982: European group 6 vs. Scotland, Northern Ireland, Sweden & Portugal
1986: Oceania vs. Australia, New Zealand & Taiwan (winners to play 2nd in
European group 7, subsequently Scotland)
1990: Oceania vs. Australia & New Zealand (Israel had a bye in the first
round). As winners Israel played South American group 2 winners, Colombia.

Israel was admitted to UEFA in 1992, and played as a member in the national
and club tournaments.

Eran

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Kappa18

· #8 · Apr 9, 2002

Mid-east Mirage:

I don't got the perspective link that you wanted, but what i can say is that back in 1973, in or after the Yom Kippour war Africa/Asia & Arab/Islamic conference was held! I think you remember there was a speech that was made by that Crazy guy who ruled Uganda a long time ago. He masterminded a Hijacking...

Anyways, that conference was to condemn Israel and to cut all personal ties with the state. One of the many ties of course was Soccer. And there were things other than soccer, like Agriculture and Diplomatic, but that didn't happen till the end.

All, in All, Many ministers who attended the conference forced the AFC to BANN Israel or they will boycott them and make them rot in the Saudi Arabian sun!

This did happened, i think around late 73

No need for link now!

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Kappa18

· #9 · Apr 9, 2002 (Edited by Moderator)

Neo's Question:

As for your question regarding Islamic European states;

I must say that we have good relations with them!

As for soccer, we also did! We actually played Bosnia in the WC qualifiers and had a score of 3-1 (HOME) and 0-0 (away). The only glitch that happened in the game away was when there was the national anthems, i think they said that people were 'booing' israel!

As for other states like Albania, and Kosovo, im not sure.

And as for Turkey, we have FULL DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH THE COUNTRY and we WERE TO PLAY THEM THIS YEAR, IF WE ONLY BEATEN AUSTRIA

.
Other than that, on a diplomatic note, our relations is fine with them! And lets not forgot the earth quakes of 1999 in Turkey..Israel had the most Men/Doctors/Professional unit and the most equiptment/supplies on hand to treat the victims.

If one can remember CNN, Israeli Rescuers saved a family of 3 (mom and 2 kids), and sent them to israel to recover

roud:

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Japanese

· #10 · Apr 10, 2002

I want to question(especially an Israeli).

"In the future, If choosing Asia(AFC) and Europe(UEFA), which do you choose?" and "Which is good for Israel?"

I hear that the Japanese says "It is dangerous (Of course, this meaning is because the soccer is strong.) if Israel and Turkey are an Asia(AFC)" often.
If Israel joins in Asia, the possibility of World Cup participation will be larger than now. However, a level may not go up.

and also, I heard that the officer of an association commented on television "We want to return to Asia" in the past.

Addition:
In Israeli vs Japan, Israel has won all the games.

Did you know?

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Mideast Mirage

· #11 · Apr 10, 2002

Japanese said:
I want to question(especially an Israeli).

"In the future, If choosing Asia(AFC) and Europe(UEFA), which do you choose?" and "Which is good for Israel?"

I hear that the Japanese says "It is dangerous (Of course, this meaning is because the soccer is strong.) if Israel and Turkey are an Asia(AFC)" often.
If Israel joins in Asia, the possibility of World Cup participation will be larger than now. However, a level may not go up.

and also, I heard that the officer of an association commented on television "We want to return to Asia" in the past.

Addition:
In Israeli vs Japan, Israel has won all the games.
Did you know?

Hello Japanese, Unfortunately I don't think that we will get the chance to play in Asia in the near future due to political factors. So we can't really choose. I think most of our fans are happy that we are in UEFA even though it may be a very long time before we qualify for a tournament. UEFA is on a high level and there are many good teams. It will take us years to close the gap. On the other hand, only by playing the best can you improve.
No I did not know that we had won all the games against Japan. In the past Asia was much weaker but they have improved a lot since we left. I think that Japan may be a big surprise this summer at the World Cup since they have quite a few good players. Shinji Ono is my favorite.

Kappa18

· #12 · Apr 10, 2002

If someone had a choice, then i say that Israel will still stay in UEFA...

If Political situation permits, it will take a good 10-20 years to actually regain the trust and commitment of AFC after what they've put as threw. Im not pointing fingers :finger: but many Japanese Associates of the AFC voted against Israel back in the 70's

Probably as far as i know, Israel could have been in the Far East (China, Japan, Korea) division, instead of the OCEANA, but that was that.

UEFA has opened so much for Israeli soccer, that i feel we are in a position that we can win and compete!

we had a highs and lows and the future games will be very exciting to witness!

Though, i would find it cool to switch to AFC...only for the NT, let our clubs stay in UEFA!!!!!!!!!!! :tongue:

Mideast Mirage

· #13 · Apr 10, 2002

A few comments on various items...

Kappa: the "crazy guy" from Uganda that you mentioned is Idi Amin. Uganda by the way is in Africa and not Asia. Okay though maybe you are right that we were banned after that conference. I have no proof one way or the other so I will just drop the subject.

Raanan: I don't know who Eran Rabl is. I hope that he is not one of the rabble

What you posted is really confusing. We seemed to have played all over the place and in a different conference each time. I just hope that we get a bit of stability in UEFA.

Neo Geo:as stated we have played both Turkey and Bosnia in the recent past with no problems. Also as far as the Islamic states from the former Soviet Union we did play Uzbekistan in a qualifying group several years back. I think that it would be okay against the others (Azerbaijan, Khazakstan, Tajikistan,etc.) too. We will just have to wait until we are drawn in their group to see what happens. BTW Azerbaijan national team defender Morad Magamadov has played now in the Israeli league for many years. He is an excellent player.

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Kappa18

· #14 · Apr 10, 2002 (Edited by Moderator)

The Conference, hosted by Ami from Uganda was to severe ties with Israel, eliminated all trade, if that ment soccer than that too!

It wasn't the NT or Football Associations of a certain country that wanted to quit! It was clearly a political thing!!! The Arab countrys wanted us out, the Friendly country saw that it was a danger so they went on there side, easy as that! Look at right now......

[Edited: Kappa, your intentions were pure but No Politics, I cannot allow you to make even the slightest remark no matter how inoffensive it is. Hope you understand]

Hrevivo

· #15 · Apr 11, 2002

Until the 60's I believe Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania and the last 3 until the 70's all were actually competing for the same qualification spots due to lack of nations to enter the competition from non-European nations. That's why it seems that Israel has been moving around a lot.

All that information can be found in FIFA's website in the World Cup section (that's it for advertising), or here http://www.fifa.com/wc/2002/info/format_E.html

As for Azerbaijan, Israel was in their group in Euro96 qualifiers, we won both games against them (I believe both were 2:0 wins).

Morad Magomedov is NOT an Azeri international, he turned down offers to play for both Azerbaijan and Russia because he wants to play for the Israeli NT (which was actually close to happen before his long injury). Magomedov wants to become an Israeli citizen and stay in the country.

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Gilli

· #16 · Apr 11, 2002

Well first of I want to start by saying I like being in UEFA, even if we were forced to play in this region so to speak. We get the chance to compete in several competitions (If we were still in Asia no chance in hell Hapoel would have bought European glory!), if we fail to qualify to the WC we can always comfort ourselves with a place in the EC's (haven't happened so far...), and finally, yes, we do improve our level. We started as pushovers, losing 5:0 and 4:0 almost every game against top class and even 2nd class opponents (Sweden, Finland...) and now we came to the situation where we do have a team that on their day can be a real pain in the ass against teams like Spain. Yeah we are very very far away from being a really good european team, but that's one hell of a progress that we made, isn't it? Even when we qualified for our only WC we hardly managed to get past teams who were really weak then like New Zealand and Australia. So Japanese, I like being in UEFA and despite the fact the chances to qualify to a WC from Asia are bigger, I'd like to keep things as they are.

El El Israel.

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Kappa18

· #17 · Apr 11, 2002

I hope that Mr.Morad Magomedov is going to be a 2nd class citizen if he is going to come here, that arab azerbijan guy!!!!

How come he wasn't put on any rosters?? Is it possible to have people from other countries compete for you? out of pleasure or out of money?

If that is the case, how come Israel still hasn't got a player like Giovani Rosso in the Israeli NT....we can really use a guy like him around!

i highly doubt that he can have any caps in the Croatian team, cause compared to other players, he is useless, but not as useless as he can be for ISRAEL!!!!!

Hrevivo

· #18 · Apr 11, 2002

I don't know what you have against Magomedov as it seems to me the guy loves this country and if he would like to play for the NT, it means he really loves that country.

I don't think we need him or Rosso or Magomedov on the NT, those aren't quite our problematic positions.

Raful

· #19 · Apr 11, 2002

I agree we have Gershon and Berkovic.

Kappa18

· #20 · Apr 12, 2002

I wish a person like Beckham or Pablo Sorino or...Edgar Davids would love Israel!!!! :depress:

If they would have come played us, due to there Jewish backround, that would be amazing!

i think that Denmark next week would stop the Anti-Israeli protesting and piss in there pants once they see the 3 might on top of berko/Benyoun/bachar

play in the same team!!!!

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