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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today is Friday, the work load is slightly less, my feelings over the shortcomings of the Select team have receded, and so I am in the proper state of mind to discuss the beautiful game and Benfica.

I've read a couple of reports in the dailies regarding a committee of 10 Benfica "socios" who held a press conference to lambaste Luis Felipe Vieira. Here's the article in English.

http://www.onefootball.com/index.phtml?page=fullstory&country_id=37&newsid=116761&0


These guys make some very interesting points. Not on the Jardel saga mind you, cause if signing his brother prevents Benfica from shelling out a greater sum to Super Mario, for signing a contract and not honoring it, I'm all for the savings. It show's you though that these guys running the team are sometimes dealing with intricacies over their own heads. It smells of the Porfirio case.

The point I'm in agreement with, is Benfica's futebol operations failure to provide the fans with not even a Junior team that they can feel good about. Let's face it, the senior team is in a rebuilding stage, however, how can it be in a rebuilding stage when the fundamental blocks underneath are so thin???

Why aren't we procuring the best talent in the land and signing them to our youth squads? Why don't we have an adequate B team. Why aren't we developing world class players like Sporting?

It seems the senior management is more interested in signing players like George Jardel and Porfirio to put out fires that they themselves let get out of control, then they are with building a strong Benfica squad again.

LFV must realize that in order to win, as Boavista and SPorting have shown us, the key is not to go out and put out fires, but to go out and build strong foundations starting with youth.
 

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Good to see ye active int hese boards again.

As always, I try to disagree with you when ever I can. This time, you're dead on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Pila said:
Good to see ye active int hese boards again.

As always, I try to disagree with you when ever I can. This time, you're dead on.

What??? You're not taking your typical Management is always correct stand????

Damn, I gotta come up with some thing bigger.


How about the fact that Toni is being considered for the Select team as manager, and Oliveira is being considered for Benfica???

Talk about ending my affiliation with the sport in Portugal!:dazed:
 

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A historic day in the Benfica board:

RedE and Pila agree.

Although I would not look to replace Vilarinho yet, he has made errors.

-In terms of players (Not signing Jardel, essentially swapping VanH for ZZ, and putting too much responsibility on Mantorras so soon)

-In terms of club management (The club is still not developing players, maybe should look into recruiting the trainadors and scouts who are succeeding. Also, even though they would never openly admit this, look into what SCP has been doing so well for the last 7-10 years).

That said, this current management group is the best SLB has had since I began following the club 8 years ago (Securing a new stadium will reap benefits long after Euro 2004).

But there is still room for improvement.
 

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AXP103 said:
A historic day in the Benfica board:

RedE and Pila agree.

Although I would not look to replace Vilarinho yet, he has made errors.

-In terms of players (Not signing Jardel, essentially swapping VanH for ZZ, and putting too much responsibility on Mantorras so soon)

-In terms of club management (The club is still not developing players, maybe should look into recruiting the trainadors and scouts who are succeeding. Also, even though they would never openly admit this, look into what SCP has been doing so well for the last 7-10 years).

That said, this current management group is the best SLB has had since I began following the club 8 years ago (Securing a new stadium will reap benefits long after Euro 2004).

But there is still room for improvement.
Exactly my position, AXP. In a little over a year, this management team has nearly repaired the damage done by that crook, JVA. They've stabilized the financial mess… the very least. They've hired someone that, the very least, has given the team direction for the future (now, they need to instill the same philosophy in regards to our B and youth teams).

As you mentioned, they've made mistakes - but one would have to be a total cynical pessimist to see that they've done more good than harm. And, as you also mentioned, that doesn't excuse them for what they've done wrong, we fans must continue to demand improvement. However, looking at the situation as a whole, any level-headed fan will be able to see that we've made monumental strides, relatively speaking of course.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes. We've made progress from a financial point of view, although the fall out from the new stadium is still to be felt. However we have NOT made any progress from a futebol point of view. Our B and Junior teams have steadily declined during the current management's tenure. And lets not forget that we, in the previous two years have a 6th place finish and a 4th place finish, with back to back European absences.

This will be the year, where either the team does something, or management is out. The futebol results are the worse in the teams history.
 

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Agreed. Another dismal showing and they've ran out of excuses.
 

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Also agreed RedE. As I used to say when JVA was in charge "This is Benfica, not some semi-pro amatuer team." They still have the largest following in the country, which in turn gives them the highest potential revenue streams in Portugal.

Benfica for too long was run in a manner reminiscent to the New York Yankees of the mid to late 1980's. Management and the fans were too focused immediate satisfaction, and never looking at planting seeds for the future.

Hopefully we will see that begin to turn around.
 

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RedEagle said:

These guys make some very interesting points. Not on the Jardel saga mind you, cause if signing his brother prevents Benfica from shelling out a greater sum to Super Mario, for signing a contract and not honoring it, I'm all for the savings. It show's you though that these guys running the team are sometimes dealing with intricacies over their own heads. It smells of the Porfirio case.

About the youth movement, i agree, and signs are showin that management is also aware that the situation needs to be rectified as thet are making changes.

About the George Jardel thingy - your statement doesnt make sense because BENFICA can not save money by getting him, that would have to be paid to senior donkey Jardel because BENFICA has nothing to do with his action.

His action in court is against Vilarinho - if any money goes to Jardel it is strictly from Vilos pockets, as his agreement was made with Jardel before he was president of Benfica. SLB has no-involvement in the issue and no possible liability.

Therefore if George Jardel was hired to arrange an agreement with Vilo. and Jardel, it would be unethical and mayb illegal, as the president cannot use the club for personal gain or intersets can he.

What worries me is that Vilo, has been mum about the whole issue and needs to clarify the sich., which Im sure he will in the following days.

FORCA BENFICA!!!!
 

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Hey Boys! Guess Who's Back!

It's been a Spring to Remember (to say the least), but things are slowly returning to something closely resembling normalcy. I've missed you all (sincerely), and despite the dissapointing World Cup, the favorite part of my work day has now returned: talking Benfica with the likes of you.

Pila & I have long since established our position on this: no regime is perfect, but what Vilarinho & Veiria have done in just a year's time is nothing short of miraculous. The massive debt is just about paid off, a new stadium is halfway complete, there have been massive improvements in the broadcast rights (in terms of making telecasts accessible to more people around the globe), merchandising (an extensive rollout plan for Benfica Lojas around Portugal/plus a MEGALOJA at the new Luz (20,000 sf?)), and even the internet (has anyone checked out the new beta site - "mesmo menos", but an improvement of the early Benfica Centrealesque offical site (NOT a compliment)). And while we all would have loved to have seen a title last season, I think we can all agree that we have the players to have a legitimate shot at the title. I don't recall seeing a single post last season here that lamented that we didn't have the horses; almost all criticism was levelled at either Toni or Jesualdo. While the treinador selection falls ultimately upon LVP, one could argue that some different substitution moves/reversal of bad ref. calls (let's face it, they happened) last season could have been the difference between UEFA or not.

Overall, they've done a terrific job.

That being said, I don't think anybody can stand here and say that there isn't room for improvement; starting with the Youth system. Does Benfica suffer from having what is perhaps the strongest youth system in all of Europe just 2 KM down the road? Maybe - but that's no excuse. If anything, it should force them to strive to compete with Sporting in that area just as strongly as it does in rhetoric, stadia and jogos. You could do much worse than modelling your youth program after Sporting. Look further than the Red Sox for an example of what happens to a team when all attention is paid to the top level, and the foundation (as Red so correctly pointed out) is rotten. No prospects & no infrastructure for signing/developing young talent = no future. Period.

I'm willing to give them another year to see what happens to the A squad in la Liga and what they can do in the lower levels this year (I'd be shocked if Benfica B isn't back in the Segunda this time next year).

Forca Benfica!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Razor said:
Hey Boys! Guess Who's Back!

It's been a Spring to Remember (to say the least), but things are slowly returning to something closely resembling normalcy. I've missed you all (sincerely), and despite the dissapointing World Cup, the favorite part of my work day has now returned: talking Benfica with the likes of you.

Pila & I have long since established our position on this: no regime is perfect, but what Vilarinho & Veiria have done in just a year's time is nothing short of miraculous. The massive debt is just about paid off, a new stadium is halfway complete, there have been massive improvements in the broadcast rights (in terms of making telecasts accessible to more people around the globe), merchandising (an extensive rollout plan for Benfica Lojas around Portugal/plus a MEGALOJA at the new Luz (20,000 sf?)), and even the internet (has anyone checked out the new beta site - "mesmo menos", but an improvement of the early Benfica Centrealesque offical site (NOT a compliment)). And while we all would have loved to have seen a title last season, I think we can all agree that we have the players to have a legitimate shot at the title. I don't recall seeing a single post last season here that lamented that we didn't have the horses; almost all criticism was levelled at either Toni or Jesualdo. While the treinador selection falls ultimately upon LVP, one could argue that some different substitution moves/reversal of bad ref. calls (let's face it, they happened) last season could have been the difference between UEFA or not.

Overall, they've done a terrific job.

That being said, I don't think anybody can stand here and say that there isn't room for improvement; starting with the Youth system. Does Benfica suffer from having what is perhaps the strongest youth system in all of Europe just 2 KM down the road? Maybe - but that's no excuse. If anything, it should force them to strive to compete with Sporting in that area just as strongly as it does in rhetoric, stadia and jogos. You could do much worse than modelling your youth program after Sporting. Look further than the Red Sox for an example of what happens to a team when all attention is paid to the top level, and the foundation (as Red so correctly pointed out) is rotten. No prospects & no infrastructure for signing/developing young talent = no future. Period.

I'm willing to give them another year to see what happens to the A squad in la Liga and what they can do in the lower levels this year (I'd be shocked if Benfica B isn't back in the Segunda this time next year).

Forca Benfica!
Welcome back Pal!

Great post as always. I agree that Vilarinho has been outstanding on the financial side, although the new TV agreement sucks for American viewers. Fiscally Vilarinho has done the job. However, and OG, the George signing was a shrewd move by Vilarinho to avoid shelling out the dough to SuperMario, all the articles that I read indicate this fact, from a futebol standpoint, I don't think it helps the team. But who knows maybe George Jardel is not another Porfirio, and in fact is even better than his brother.

However, last season's fall out can be attributable to many factors. However the two that management can control imo, are depth in the squad, and of course coaching. THey fired Toni, and put Jesualdo in charge. Jesualdo didn't necessarily raise the style or the level of play either. THey had a shot a Mourinho and turned it down. I hope it doesn't bite us in the @ss. But the depth of the squad is where we were at our thinnest. We had Joao Manuel Pinto playing striker at one point last year. That is managements fault. It shows lack of forsight to have no one we can bring up where we are so thin. Let's not even talk about the playmaking midfield role. But we did have depth at the always important "trinco" position. :rolleyes:

Either way, I hope there is progress. I think they are perfectly aware that if they have a repeat performance this coming season, they will all be run out of town. Yes, the financial aspect is important, but fans live for the futebol results.
 

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Razor- While AAA and AA are both pretty empty right now, I hope you haven't formed your opinion on the Ol' Town Team by reading the local rags.

The Sox are not as bad as some make them out to be.
 

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Razor : great to have u bak bro.

Red : im not sure if u get what im sayen bro. It might be a shrewd move for Vilo, but is it a good move for Benfica. As i said before the deal Vilo made with Jardel was prior to Vilo being elected pres of SLB - the deal was striclty between Vilo and Jardel not SLB and Jardel, meanin that only Vilo is liable for any payouts too Jardel

That being the case, the signing of George may be shrewd for Vilo to save his own money but how is it shrewd for SLB's interests.

The whole case seems a conflict of interests from Vilos standpoint & if he did get George just to save dollars from his own pocket then hes abusing his privilege as president. That said Ill give him the benefit of the doubt and hope the deal has nothin to do with his own interests.

FORCA [email protected]@@!!!
 

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AXP103 said:
Razor- While AAA and AA are both pretty empty right now, I hope you haven't formed your opinion on the Ol' Town Team by reading the local rags.

The Sox are not as bad as some make them out to be.
With the exception of Andrew Jackson (aka - the Commisioner, aka - Peter Gammons), I don't put much stock in anything the knuckleheads on 'EEI say (which as we know are chock full of the guys from the local rags)...and he says the system is in disarray. I'm not even talking about the prospects (or lack thereof) in the system, so much as the way Duquette systematically destroyed the scouting infrastructure. Kudos for the new regime for beefing up the Latin scouting bureau their first week at the helm. When the Sox have precious few prospects at the A level (which typically are 3 to 4 years away from the bigs anyway), and they just traded their top three for the lefty from San Diego (Albee?), then the future isn't looking so bright below the big club.

I have no problems with the Sox this season - they'll be there come playoff time (especially if Pedro pitches as he did last night).

How's the summer going AXP?
 

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Razor said:

With the exception of Andrew Jackson (aka - the Commisioner, aka - Peter Gammons), I don't put much stock
Peter Gammons is the most over-rated sports writer in America. I will send you backup of my claims in the near future. In the meantime, ask yourself these questions:

-Why did he join the pummeling of Dan Duquette, while letting GM's like Dan O'Dowd (Colorado), Jim Bowden (Reds) Gord Ashe (formerly of Toronto) slide?

-How can you gloss over the Yankees competitive advantage. Why not inform people how they are the only team (besides maybe the Mariners) that can take high priced flyers on guys like Soriano, Henson, El Duque, Karsay?

-How is Duquette's strategy of recruiting Manny (Show him the:greed: :greed: :greed: ) any different than Brian Cashman's?

-Why label Robinson Checo a great signing 5 years ago, then turn around and use it as damning evidence against Duquette?


Finishing on the Sox: The Sox beefing up their Latin presence is a sign that they will cutback on their Asain scouting. I'm not a Duquetter lover, believe me, but he was the first GM to get into Korea. If you look now, prospects such as Sunny Kim, Sueng Song, and old friend Tomo Ohka (Used for Uggie) are developing nicely.

Not to beat a horse to death: The only team that can has the $ resources to sign top free agents, draft picks, and scout like a mother fvcker aer the MFY's.

Personally, things are good. I'm in a new enviorment at work, so I don't hate my job anymore. I looking into some kind of vacation before the end of the year. I don't know where, but I want to go somewhere sunny in the fall. Maybe a trip to a southern NFL city in Decemeber or even January.

I also have continued my surge North ( I have Lynn listed as my location now), might be a few more years before I'm listing New Hampshire as my point of residence too.

How are things with you? Have you been to CMGI yet?

When I find more stuff I've read in the past, I'll PM you.
 

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Sorry, I didn't know Dan Duquette was your boyfriend:tongue: !

Hare dare thee diss the Gam-Man?! Does he suffer from overexposure (he's friggin' everywhere these days!) - absolutely! But is that his fault any more than it was Jacko's fault that "Billie Jean" was played to death? I say NO! Quality is quality!
 

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There's the rub- He no longer gives us, his readers, quality information. For every Colon to the Expos that he's on top of, he throws out Manny for Hampton.

He caters to the execs that make his job easier.
He thumbs his nose at statsitical analysis, which is not a complete measure of a players performance; but then will use nameless scout quotes to support his assertations- Is that a superior reference tool?

On a personal level, I am tired of his Red Sox negativity. He's made a habit of chastising Sox fans and making the prior owndership look like it was a barrell of monekeys (They made many errors, but they did not run the team THAT badly). Now he has joined the other mediots in supporting the new ownership group, simply because they are nicer (Opening up Fenway on Father's day is smart marketing, but doesn't mean squat in terms of running a good baseball team). If they piss him off, you'll suddenly read references as to how they are over-levereged (which they may very well be).

In Conclusion:

Peter Gammons: Understand this, I find the man to be extremly overrated to say the least; prone to glaring errors or exaggerations on his worst days.

Dan Duquetter: It was his time to go, but doesn't justify the unabashed attempt to slander his contribution to the Red Sox (review the Red Sox organization at the end of the 1994 season to today)

New Owners: Bringing some good vibes to the club, but have yet to answer serious questions (such as ability to evaluate players, work the political scene, and pay for the cost to run this team).
 
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