Xtratime Community banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Mourinho & Cassano!!
Joined
·
45,797 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
People want a playmaker. What they dont realize is that we have a midfield consisting of 4 central midfielders, or players who utilized in their best roles would be central midfielders. Now you can't argue against Cambiasso, who is integral to our midfield. He contributes offensively but also contains the opposition. Not tackling wise, but very good at keeping the ball, and holding up play. Now Veron has been operating all year from the wing. Stankovic as well. They would better be utilized in the middle of course.

Cristiano Zanetti cannot be left out of the current first team because he is one of the few people on our team like a Gattuso, Makelele, etc who are out there to do one thing. Tackle and contain.


A two DM front in the middle was what Mancio had in mind when he switched to it. We have since stopped letting in goals. Have Miha/Matrix done it? No. Has Cordoba's level of play increased? No. Has Toldo suddenlty got better in the middle of the season? No.

It's obviously the 2 DM front. Now where would the playmaker go? Assuming that you get a playmaker, that instantly means you have to switch to a formation with the following requirements.

A 4 man defense since 3 cannot be achieved, mostly b/c of JZ's presence and the fact we can't even fill 2 CD spots.

2 strikers since it is necessary that Adriano play with a quick man up front. We also have Cruz, Vieri, Martins, Recoba, and even if Bobo leaves we still have an excess of capital invested in an area with only 1 player, if that is the case.

That means a 4-X-X-2. Now that leaves 4 spots.
Cambiasso has to get one of them.
The playmaker, if we are going for a playmaker to stick into a standard 4-4-2, then forget Aimar or Ronaldinho b/c effectively those players are not fit for a 4-4-2. Players like Pirlo and Veron fit the 4-4-2 perfectly. In that case, it is necessary that Veron or a Veron type player be brought in. Roberto Gallo who has followed Veron over many years cited that one area in which Veron has improved is his defense. I beg to differ in recent games such as the Lazio one where Veron and Kily's inability to trek back and cover the area right in front of the box where defenders/defensive midfielders rush in cost us a goal. I also remember other screwups by Veron. However, in both cases, he was playing the wing area. As was Kily.

Now the question is, what if we did the following?

--------------------Adriano-------------Martins---------------
-----------------------------Playmaker----------------------
--------------------Cambiasso---Stankovic----CZ------------
--LB-----------------Cordoba----------CB---------------JZ--
--------------------------------GK-----------------------------

Then in that case we would get a playmaker. In no news on Inter.it or sports.it have I ever seen us linked to such a playmaker, behind the strikers type such as Aimar or Ronaldinho. But this would mean that Mancio would have to change his formation. In this case CZ and Cambiasso would still be present. Perhaps Stankovic could drift to the side and we could let CZ take up a more central role to rough up anything coming near Toldo.

The point is this, and simple. We must, if we are at all, attain a behind the striker playmaker if we are to get any at all. In that case, we must also ensure that Mancio changes his 442 philosophy, which he has shown numerous times to be capable of trying out. I think the recent matches has gone a long way in showing that it might not have been the right change, but Mancio is willing to change his formation.

The problem with getting Veron or Pirlo-type mold is this. We have two successful midfielders in Cambiasso and CZ. Both of them complement each other, and the difference is resound when compared to Cambiasso-Veron or Cambiasso-Davids or Davids-Veron. We are sound and attack greatly.

Two points come out of this problem. One is this. If we are getting a Pirlo type mold, where would we play him? Is the wing really where we want to put this new midfielder? Veron is very apt at going inside and attacking. But that is the point. He is switching to a more central role. In football you cannot sacrifice a portion of a pitch. That is why you must put players where they do best, b/c every player has a tendency to go places, your job as coach is to put that player where he wants to go.

My sub-point that comes out of this is this. Suppose we are then keeping a defensive midfield. And a attacking wing. Then why wouldn't it be a great idea to pursue a playmaking winger such as Riquelme? Veron on one side, Riquelme on the other. If Veron happens to retire or leave, bang- put Riquelme in the center.

The other sub-point is this. We already have two natural wingers, ones who would aptly fit a 3-4-3. Kily and VDM. I dont understand why we have so many players. We must committ to a formation and build a compact team. If we had anything resembling a defense, we could paly anything from a 4-5-1 to a 3-6-1 to a 3-4-3 to a 4-4-2 to a 4-3-1-2 to a 4-2-3-1.

Perhaps the last option would be best, 4-2-3-1 with Stankovic and Veron in the mix. With the playmaker there. But then that is the point. What about Recoba, Cruz, Vieri?, and Martins? More than your fair share for 1 spot.

If we watched the games over again, it was on the break that teams killed us. Often they ran down the wing. Is it really a good idea to put such attacking players on the wings? Leaving our flanks open to attack on a defense that is not exactly first-rate? Will it be first-rate next year? Don't get me wrong, we will shore up. But we got no Nesta back there, that is for sure.

Players that can't be benched:

Cambiasso
Stankovic (yes, sadly- play does not dictate everything, but name does)
Adriano
JZ
Cordoba
Worldclass LB
Worldclass CB
GK

Players that have played well and I think are necessary in any good midfield:

CZ
Veron

This year's transfer market will be summing up our season next year. Our plans for it. That entire idea can be summed up as follows: To get Veron or not to get Veron

You cannnot argue that a playmaker was not what we needed. HOw many more goals do we need to score? Why is one necessary/ If we have the most goals scored in Serie A, and the most goals scored upon us in the top 5 teams, then why wouldn't just shoring up the defense and keeping Veron-Stankovic-CZ-Cambiasso midfield with occassional VDM, Kily substitutions work? Is Emre really out? probably. Is karagounis out? Yes apparently. Suddently our surplus of midifled is not so big after all, since Davids is gone as well.

I have no clue what this all means, except that I hope the upper level knows what they are doing. We have a great potential here. Despite some complaints about our policies of picking up freebies, we can't all spend billions of dollars on building up Galacticos. Those teams already exist, and they exist to lose. Our "bad" freebie policy has gotten us many many players that can all build something great, or we could break it apart and lose it all. The choice is ours.

I think at the moment, there are several problems, but whether we get Veron will determine a lot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
831 Posts
the only reason i wud want a playmaker is coz we hav too many central midfielders to play with just two.

with 3 and a playmaker we cud play with one DM and two supporters just like barca and chelsea do:

Stankovic --- DM --- Veron

or even

Cambiasso -- CZ -- Stankovic .. with Veron being the playmaker like back in his Parma days and Cambiasso can play like he used to in his River days with abit more of an attackin role.

I'm supprised Mancini has'nt tryed this out already with these four.

The main thing if we do go for a narrow midfield such as that of a 4312 then we need either a playmaker that floats alot to the wings like Nedved two years ago for Juve .. or we need attackin full backs, which means a new LB is a must.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
831 Posts
btw a good option for a playmaker who moves and works on both wings cud be D'alessandro .. he likes to drift and work on the wings as much as working thro the center .. he has an italian pass-port. works hard for a playmaker and very talented.
Plus .. he won't cost as much as most wud.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,624 Posts
Good thread Puls.

We have to remember that Mancini's mentality is to force opposition to play our game. Therefore, we are the team that usually dictates play. We dominate possession and therefore it is hard to find open spaces. We have to do it with teamwork and great passing abilities. Counter-attacks are out of the question. And that's why we need a playmaker like Aimar: A player who can make a difference with his passes.

So if we do get Aimar, we should play a 4-3-1-2 formation. As Mohaned pointed out, we would be needing good attacking fullbacks to do that. However I do not think that Mancini likes this system and would probably stick to his beloved 4-4-2 with a flat midfield with out-of-position wingers in Veron and Stankovic :thmbdown:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,575 Posts
It could work with Cambiasso in the style flanked with C.Zanetti and Stankovic, leaving space on the wings for our backs to run up.

Zanetti-------X-----X-----------LB
--cZanetti--cambiasso--stank
---------------PM
---------Adriano--Martins

this system can work because cambiasso's passing styles are very good considering the amount of work he does. CZanetti can cover for JZanetti when he moves up and Stank can do the same for our LB.

Of course though, if Veron stays, this formation does not work out at all. He can't play on this three man midfield with Zanetti-Cambiasso-Stankovic because he is too slow with the ball at his feet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
831 Posts
We played with something simliar to that against valencia .. it was more like :
----------Veron---------------
Emre -- Cambiasso -- Stankovic

or maybe it was Emre behind the strikers .. i hav no idea wat mancini has in mind, he said before that he wants to play with 3 midfielders and 3 attackers. Well that won't happen with Martins and Adriano, coz neither can play as a flanked forward, i hope he meant 3 forwards being 2 strikers and a playmaker.

I dunno but i kinda suprised why he has'nt played more often with a 4312 formation. I mean we have the players for that .. it cud look like

AM: any of Stankovic, Emre, Veron, Karagounis and even Recoba can be a make-shift player for that position when in need of a greater attacking power.

DM: Cambiasso or C.Zanetti .. i guess CZ wud start if more defense is required.

2 CM's: again any of Stankovic, Emre, Veron, Karagounis, Davids and even Kily and Cambiasso can play as the LCM .. plus there is also Ze Maria who can play as the RCM

ideally i wud go with Stankovic, Emre and Veron and i wud be happy with either Veron or Stankovic being the AM ... as for the DM well CZ is more of a tackler while cambiasso is more of a positioning kinda DM, we cud even go with CZ as the DM and Cambiasso as LCM for greater cover.

with all that said, i'm abit surprised why mancini has'nt used the 4312 from the Valencia match more often .. dunno maybe its coz he does'nt want to unsettle the team now that they have become more solid with two Midfielders sitting back be it CZ and Cambiasso or one of them and Veron. If this is the case then fair enuff and maybe come summer he wud work on a changes especially with a new CB. However, if thats not the case and he wants to play with a 442 then he is gonna have to sort out the Stankovic problem.
 

·
U get what U give
Joined
·
8,784 Posts
We dont need a playmaker!?
hmm.. If we played with our current strong Midfeilders and played with One striker with a support striker (or a playmaker striker like Henry, Recoba ect..) that would be a clue without any costs.
Playing with Oba and Adriano upfront is a very good idea, but I didnt see a match this year that they were so fit togther cause actully there were no playmaker that can injure them with the fininshing passes, so always there was a one of them that get back in the midfeild (it was Adriano most of the time) and try to creat passes and helps Oba or Vieri in the offense in the same time, so the solution is a play maker but put in mind that will decrease our midfeild strenght by 70%.. cause playing Cambiasso and CZ togther isnt a very good idea cause the both are so slow, so may be we should try to give Davids one more chance or may be Karagounis cause both are so fast to prevent the counter attacks on us.
So there are 2 solutions.. 1- play with a 4-4-1-1 formation or 4-3-1-2 formation as yu guys pointed, but now let`s be realistic.. the 4-4-1-1 would be much useful in the Seria A, the 4-3-1-2 would be awsome in the EPL or La Liga! :D
I want to se this lines up next year (with the subs) :

--------------------------Toldo/Carini--------------------

JZ(ZeMaria)---Kompany(Matrix)---Cordoba(Miha)---R.C.(Coco)

Veron(VDM)------CZ-------Cambiasso(Davids)---Stanko(Kara)

-------------------------Recoba(Cheventon)--------------

-----------------Adriano(Oba)----------------------------

If you insist to play Oba and Adriano toghter then play with 4-3-3 formation, no need to a playmaker:

---------------------------Toldo/Carini----------------------

JZ(ZeMaria)---Kompany(Matrix)---Cordoba(Miha)---R.C.(Coco)

Veron(VDM)--------Cambiasso(Davids)----------Stanko(Kara)

------------Oba------------------------Recoba-------------
-------------------------Adriano----------------------------

FORZA NEROAZZURRI!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
831 Posts
ur missing the whole point !!

the point of switching to from a 442 is to aviod playing Veron and Stankovic out of position. As for Oba as a flanked forward .. it cud work but really Oba is an out and out striker he be out of place if played like that.

i'm also not too bothered about adding a playmaker as long as we keep these midfielders and use them in a 4312 as i mentioned above. However, if Mancini wants wingers then some changes are needed, especially concerning the sale of some of the way to many central midfielders, which wud be benched if a 442 is used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,006 Posts
The playmaker doesn't have to be the archetypal number 10 (Aimar. Totti etc). A deep lying playmaker who can control the game from deeper could be far more beneficial for Inter, a Guardiola/Alonso type of player.

In Moratti's infinite wisdom he sold the playmaker that you'd find easiest to accomodate in the team when he let Pirlo go to Milan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,489 Posts
damn puls another super thread.good job
i cant add anythin cause this is damn wayyy to hard.all i can say is,ill be happy if veron stays,n ill be happy if veron leaves.if veron leaves a new playmaker will come
if veron stays our midfield wont change for sure!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
626 Posts
Devious said:
We dont need a playmaker!?
hmm.. If we played with our current strong Midfeilders and played with One striker with a support striker (or a playmaker striker like Henry, Recoba ect..) that would be a clue without any costs.
Playing with Oba and Adriano upfront is a very good idea, but I didnt see a match this year that they were so fit togther cause actully there were no playmaker that can injure them with the fininshing passes, so always there was a one of them that get back in the midfeild (it was Adriano most of the time) and try to creat passes and helps Oba or Vieri in the offense in the same time, so the solution is a play maker but put in mind that will decrease our midfeild strenght by 70%.. cause playing Cambiasso and CZ togther isnt a very good idea cause the both are so slow, so may be we should try to give Davids one more chance or may be Karagounis cause both are so fast to prevent the counter attacks on us.
So there are 2 solutions.. 1- play with a 4-4-1-1 formation or 4-3-1-2 formation as yu guys pointed, but now let`s be realistic.. the 4-4-1-1 would be much useful in the Seria A, the 4-3-1-2 would be awsome in the EPL or La Liga! :D
I want to se this lines up next year (with the subs) :

--------------------------Toldo/Carini--------------------

JZ(ZeMaria)---Kompany(Matrix)---Cordoba(Miha)---R.C.(Coco)

Veron(VDM)------CZ-------Cambiasso(Davids)---Stanko(Kara)

-------------------------Recoba(Cheventon)--------------

-----------------Adriano(Oba)----------------------------

If you insist to play Oba and Adriano toghter then play with 4-3-3 formation, no need to a playmaker:

---------------------------Toldo/Carini----------------------

JZ(ZeMaria)---Kompany(Matrix)---Cordoba(Miha)---R.C.(Coco)

Veron(VDM)--------Cambiasso(Davids)----------Stanko(Kara)

------------Oba------------------------Recoba-------------
-------------------------Adriano----------------------------

FORZA NEROAZZURRI!!
why not:

--------------------------Toldo/Carini--------------------

JZ(ZeMaria)---alex(Matrix)---Cordoba(Miha)---evra(Coco)

-----CZ-------Cambiasso(Davids)---Stanko(Kara)--------

-------------------------veron-------------------

-----------------Adriano------------martins------------

alex from psv can be one of the best in next year, and with cordoba it can be wonderful!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
831 Posts
i reckon C.Zanetti wud take the DM role in that midfield, pushing Cambiasso to the left and stankovic to the right. Cambiasso is a better attacker then CZ plus he played a simliar role as that in his River days.

Alex ... yep he is good IMO, thats why i wonder since Luisao is ahead of him in the NT then Luisao has to be good ..pluz Trap rates him very highly and Trap knows a thing or two about defence and organisation thats for sure. Anyway, Alex is owned by Chelsea so thats gonna be tuff to get him of there books.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46,285 Posts
This thread makes me so proud. Cristiano Zanetti!!!!! Finally he's getting some recognition! Even Michael has seen the light. ;)
 

·
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌&#874
Joined
·
31,893 Posts
Mancini has that non 3/4-playmaker in him.. perhaps a bit from Sven.

Still Stankovic is Capable for any playmaking Task. The 'wingers' of Stankovic and Veron are not static.. they move about.. sometimes inwards. Other than that Left back needed, offloading excess players, perhaps getting a defender... my ideal line up would be



Toldo

JZ - Cordoba - Mihajlvc - LB

CZ - Cambiasso - Veron

Stankvc--------K i l y

A10​



Continuity Continuity Continuity
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,575 Posts
the reason why we can't play a 3 man midfield with Zanetti in the middle is because his passing is terrible. I'd rather place him on the right side helping out JZanetti on the defending when he pushes up. Cambiasso should be in the middle position because defensively he is above average and his passing is much better than most of our midfielders along with his defensive capabilties. IMO though, a 3 men midfield does not also work with Veron, because he is too much of a liability defensively with his lack of speed. of course from the start of the season, we could have played like this:

--czanetti--cambiasso--davids
------------stankovic

with stankovic have a free role behind the strikers. but now most of us look for the playmaker (i.e. Aimar, Totti)
--czanetti--cambiasso--stankovic
------------PLAYMAKER
This midfield is secure because Cambiasso won't come up as much but his offensive skills which we may be losing is gained through the creativity of our offensive playmaker.
Just because CZanett is our bruiser doesn't mean he has to play in the centre, look at Milan with Gattuso.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,575 Posts
Firdaus said:
This thread makes me so proud. Cristiano Zanetti!!!!! Finally he's getting some recognition! Even Michael has seen the light. ;)
:dielaugh:

well there is no need to replace him and there aren't many options available in the market worth the price ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
831 Posts
Gattuso works well for milan coz he is a runner and Pirlo is static ... Out of the two CZ n Cambiasso, CZ is definitly more of a static holding midfielder then Cambiasso, even tho he can also fill that role.

Anyway, Milan use that form just coz Pirlo has to take that role ... Chelsea and Barca use the DM in the center flanked by more attacking players on each side.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top