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Discussion Starter #1
I am nice, I do not desire anyone something bad, so instead of giving such advice to Robinho - and show his incridible lack of diplomacy, respect for his own position, for us and what everyone said always (his bigoted vision turned to europe) - he should follow this.
Thank you Parreira, in the world of Mediocres you are for sure giving us more pearls. It is not our job to work as consultand to player to go to europe neither do it in TV and act as his "agent". Thank you Parreira for giving vallue for those who pay for your job. Thank you Parreira for making us remember you failed in Valencia, Europe, therefore must not be good enough.
 

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That was stupid. I saw it too. How can he do that?? But we all know that Parreira only really respects a player when he goes to Europe.
 

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JCamilo said:
I am nice, I do not desire anyone something bad, so instead of giving such advice to Robinho - and show his incridible lack of diplomacy, respect for his own position, for us and what everyone said always (his bigoted vision turned to europe) - he should follow this.
Thank you Parreira, in the world of Mediocres you are for sure giving us more pearls. It is not our job to work as consultand to player to go to europe neither do it in TV and act as his "agent". Thank you Parreira for giving vallue for those who pay for your job. Thank you Parreira for making us remember you failed in Valencia, Europe, therefore must not be good enough.
Sheer genius this post. :rolleyes:

What, exactly, is wrong with suggesting Robinho play in Europe?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
What ? One Parreira is the Brazilian national coach, he is not an agent of a player to make public declarations about his destiny. Second, he is a brazilian coach, paid by CBF that are sustained by the clubs. His main concern is the brazilian footbal and he suggest the players to leave. May he go then. And for last that show Parreira's bigoted and stupid view that players in middleteams in Europe have more chance than those here.
The question is what is right ?
(I am not against Robinho going anywhere, but Parreira in his position should keep his mouth shut.)
 

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JCamilo said:
What ? One Parreira is the Brazilian national coach, he is not an agent of a player to make public declarations about his destiny. Second, he is a brazilian coach, paid by CBF that are sustained by the clubs. His main concern is the brazilian footbal and he suggest the players to leave. May he go then. And for last that show Parreira's bigoted and stupid view that players in middleteams in Europe have more chance than those here.
The question is what is right ?
(I am not against Robinho going anywhere, but Parreira in his position should keep his mouth shut.)
well............. good point :neutral:
 

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JCamilo said:
What ? One Parreira is the Brazilian national coach, he is not an agent of a player to make public declarations about his destiny. Second, he is a brazilian coach, paid by CBF that are sustained by the clubs. His main concern is the brazilian footbal and he suggest the players to leave. May he go then. And for last that show Parreira's bigoted and stupid view that players in middleteams in Europe have more chance than those here.
The question is what is right ?
(I am not against Robinho going anywhere, but Parreira in his position should keep his mouth shut.)
If Parreira was asked, I see no problem with him making that comment. Even if he wasn't, there's nothing wrong with saying that the best soccer is played in Europe and that Robinho could benefit from going there.
 

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No, I agree with JCamilo here. Parreira was completely out of line and that comment was a slap in the faces of the fans. Young Players leaving the Brasilian League in hordes isn't an inevitability that we should accept bowing our heads, it's a PROBLEM that we need to eradicate. As JC pointed out, CBF lives off the clubs, they make money by fielding teams composed of players bred in Brasilian clubs; and the biggest adversity those clubs are facing is the express exodus of any and all players who show the slightest hint of talent, even teenagers. That is only partially caused by the relative wealth of each league; current Brazilian transfer laws make it easier than ever for any player to leave his club, practically at will. The clubs have no real say in the matter, it's out of their hands, and it led to Gremio losing a player like Ronaldinho Gaucho for peanuts. :stress: And it shouldn't be that way, it's not fair to the club that formed the player, and it's a cancer for Brasilian football as a whole.

As fast as the Brazilian clubs can renovate their squads (which is VERY fast, yes, but it has never been tested at this pace before), it's really getting tiresome for everyone. And then comes Parreira, who smugly advises the finest young talent currently playing in our domestic league to leave ASAP. What the hell...?!? Perhaps Parreira want to live vicariously through the NT's players, enjoying success in European football (that HE never achieved) through them. Or perhaps he just has his head stuck so far up his ass that he can't even hear himself talk.

One way or another, I think this situation will have to be addressed. The current system in Brasil is bleeding the clubs dry. Critics and commentators always point to the clubs' disorganization as the cause of all woes, but that isn't the only thorn on our side. Our transfer laws have to be tightened to protect the domestic market. The current transfer system took away all the clubs' influence over the player transfers and simply gave it all to the player agents, who are getting filthy rich by peddling players formed in the clubs' youth pools. :mad: Once upon a time, when a club sold a player of Diego's stature they made enough money to reinforce the squad adequately and be able to keep the rest of the first-teamers... now we see Santos getting only a percentage of Diego, and all the other first-teamers flew away to all over Europe since then: Alex, Renato, Ricardo Oliveira, Elano, Paulo Almeida, to diverse places like Holland, Spain, Portugal and even Ukraine, for crying out loud. Santos had already lost half their team to European football and yet they didn't make enough money to outbid even an Ukrainian club!!! Because the clubs are living hand-to-mouth, all the money is going to "empresarios". The problem isn't with players leaving, it's with the clubs getting screwed in the process.

But if there is one thing we don't need, it's our NT manager recommending to our best young talents that they should all head to the airport as fast as they can. :fero: :wallbang: If he doesn't give a shit about the enormous problems the Brasilian clubs face to keep their stars here, then he should go work in Europe himself. Oh but of course, nobody WANTS his services in Europe, because he SUCKED everytime he worked there. How could I forget? :devil: :rollani:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Even more when we see all the effort - and here, the positive results from it - that Santos make to keep Robinho here.
Parreira was un-ethical, un-wise and a total idiot. Asked or not he should stop his "egotrip" in Globo's programs and put himself in his place.
 

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hmm interesting thread. of course i haven't seen the interview but i can understand your arguments. what did santos get for alex or diego? i only know that for example they earned about 10 million € for kaka. that is, if the club got the full amount, a reasonable price i think. we must consider that most of the players coming from your country are (also because they leave at so young age) at an early stage of their development and need training to adopt and get more versatile. probably there are also quite a lot of players who leave to soon and never reach their full potential. something that could be prevented if the clubs would have more power to keep their players.


on the other hand i think that your NT grows stronger and stronger. as a european i'm astonished at the sheer amount of endless talent that your country produces. almost every mid-table club has at least one brazilian in its sqad and mostly these players are very good. coaching your team must be the most difficult task there is in football. you could probably field 3 teams at the world cup with each of them having a good chance of reaching the final.

so probably the clubs are the losers at the momoent but your NT seems to profit greatly from the great deal of experience your players get all over the world. brazil produces now not only great attacking players but also very good defensive players or even goalkeepers. imo that wasn't always the case (but my knowledge of brazilian football is only existent since 1994 so i might be wrong of course)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
We have always produced players in any position with huge quality. The fowards here would never be as great if they are not sharped by great defenders trying to stop them.
And we have everything a player needs to develop here. And sometimes even more because there is many european clubs who had no idea how to develop or use the potential of our players (How many times a player here get fame and moves and when he get in europe he had to perform as something else, which was not the best he could do ?) .
The problem is not that they go to Milan, Juve, Real, etc, great clubs with great structure, is that they go anywhere and end wasted there also.
 

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I agree with JCamilo totally... Brasil produces football prodigies... and they shouldn't move to Europe, just for the sake of moving... I do however feel that Robinho => Real Madrid-transfer would benefit Brazil too... I mean he would move to a club where he would certainly play a lot(under Luxemburgo)... he would get a lot of media exposure... and we would see in action a striking pair of Ronaldo and Robinho, that is so obvious to everyone except Parreira maybe... He could become "FIFA POTY" in 2-3 years(after the 2006 WC) with this transfer...
 

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Well, but what is t he benefict for Brazil in he playing with Ronaldo in Spain and him to be in european media ? None.
 

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JCamilo said:
Well, but what is t he benefict for Brazil in he playing with Ronaldo in Spain and him to be in european media ? None.
Gaining more experience for playing in the NT.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Experience he also gains with Santos.
 

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JCamilo said:
Experience he also gains with Santos.
True, but not as much as he would gain playing with Real Madrid.
 

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Much ? Playing libertadores is still the greatest experience to build the spirit of a player...just see how much Robinho developed here and how much Luis Fabiano or Diego have not.
 

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JCamilo said:
Much ? Playing libertadores is still the greatest experience to build the spirit of a player...just see how much Robinho developed here and how much Luis Fabiano or Diego have not.
LF and Diego don't play in RM, do they? Playing with Real Madrid (or Barca or any other giant club) in Spanish league and Champions league gives a player experience he'll never get in South America, with all the respect to the South American football. The fact is, that in Europe (I mean big league like Spanish or Italian) you face the best teams, the best organized defences, the best players of the planet and once you learn how to play the game on this level, there's nothing much you can learn in Copa Libertadores, again, with all the respect towards SA football.
 

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OAnimal said:
LF and Diego don't play in RM, do they? Playing with Real Madrid (or Barca or any other giant club) in Spanish league and Champions league gives a player experience he'll never get in South America, with all the respect to the South American football. The fact is, that in Europe (I mean big league like Spanish or Italian) you face the best teams, the best organized defences, the best players of the planet and once you learn how to play the game on this level, there's nothing much you can learn in Copa Libertadores, again, with all the respect towards SA football.
Nothing wrong with encouraging a player to go where the best competition is, OAnimal is absolutely right.

I do think Robinho has done well by staying in Brazil while he still could and continued to develop. At some point he should go to Europe. Parreira is right.

When Brazil straightens out its league (and it has alredy begun to), it will attract more foreign talent. Unfortunately, big part of the equation in attracting talent is the economy as well as safety, and that the clubs cannot control.

Garrincha, Parreira was not out of line in stating a fact. The problem of players leaving will only be fixed with a better economy resulting in better wages for players. however, unless the Brazilian economy overall ever approaches the European one, and players see our country as a place to move to, the Brazilian league, even when it is optimally organized, will only be top 10, not top 5 in the world. The fact that it is so good is a testament to the ammount of talent we produce.
 

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O Animal:

Playing with Real Madrid (or Barca or any other giant club) in Spanish league and Champions league gives a player experience he'll never get in South America,
Here is the point, he will get experience ,i do not deny it. But he will get experience here also. Going to europe he will get the RM experience and lose it here.

The fact is, that in Europe (I mean big league like Spanish or Italian) you face the best teams, the best organized defences, the best players of the planet and once you learn how to play the game on this level, there's nothing much you can learn in Copa Libertadores, again, with all the respect towards SA football.
Actually I see teams without this defense very organized, with the best players being wasted, with a mentality to not take advantage of the best of the talent and as it have been recored, training and physical preparation inferior to here. With all respect to Europe, They are gving so little for much they have .

al-3arbi:


Nothing wrong with encouraging a player to go where the best competition is, OAnimal is absolutely right.
I wont repeat again: It is anti-ethic for the coach of the nt give opinion about where and where not a player should move. Even if it was "move to to vasco" he would be stepping out of his line. The Brazilian NT coach have no right to deal with players transferences. One of the critics to Luxemburgo's ethic was in this area and now because the obnoxious Parreira can show his "i am world champion" face he can do it without critics. No Way.

Second: The theory about best pllace to play is crap. He is an idiot to think like this. It is only better because there is this mentality and therefore players go to anywhere in europe. As a Brazilian nationa coach his interests are here. Santos is doing hell to keep him here and he goes like a imbecilte and do this ? An Offense to Santos that showed it is possible to keep the talent.

Third: CBF, his bosses, official position is try to stop the exodus. They study calendar change, laws change, etc and he goes and talk this ?

Fourth: The Reasons he have are just that "In europe is better", any bench warmer, any player of lower/middle team is move valorized by him than a player here. This kind of thinking is of low level,total dumbness and incapacity to see the quality of Alex or Robinho did when playing here, much superior to several players in europe.

Parreira could not be more wrong.
If you can not see it and will insist to defend him, fine. The reasons are those and there is not so far any argument against it.


Parreira was not out of line in stating a fact.
He did not stated a fact. Saying "You should go to Europe" is not a fact, but an opinion! A consel! Not a fact.


The problem of players leaving will only be fixed with a better economy resulting in better wages for players. however, unless the Brazilian economy overall ever approaches the European one, and players see our country as a place to move to
They do not leave just for the money, they leave for some status. And As long someone who is high representative like the National Team coach encourages players to leave despite the huge effort of his team to keep him there (Are you not thinking that from Robinho point of view, this means : Want world cup, to raise your chances as starting ? Go to europe?) then not even with better wages. This is negative propaganda from inside. Parreira should keep his mouth shut.
 

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JCamilo said:
I wont repeat again: It is anti-ethic for the coach of the nt give opinion about where and where not a player should move. Even if it was "move to to vasco" he would be stepping out of his line. The Brazilian NT coach have no right to deal with players transferences.
Saying "he should go to Europe" is different than saying "he should go to this club". I agree that a national team coach should not encourage or even mention specific transfers.

One of the critics to Luxemburgo's ethic was in this area and now because the obnoxious Parreira can show his "i am world champion" face he can do it without critics. No Way.
One of the reasons Parreira was brought in was because he can do that, otherwise the press would absolutely kill the new coach and we'd see the same fiasco as 2000-01. I don't like how Parreira handles it sometimes, but in general I like that he doesn't give a fcuk about the media.

Second: The theory about best pllace to play is crap. He is an idiot to think like this. It is only better because there is this mentality and therefore players go to anywhere in europe. As a Brazilian nationa coach his interests are here. Santos is doing hell to keep him here and he goes like a imbecilte and do this ? An Offense to Santos that showed it is possible to keep the talent.
It's not crap. Overall the best leagues in Europe are a better place to play because you have tougher competition.

Third: CBF, his bosses, official position is try to stop the exodus. They study calendar change, laws change, etc and he goes and talk this ?
Fair enough, but see above - Parreira doesn't give a crap. His job is to field a national team, not be a mouthpiece for CBF.

Fourth: The Reasons he have are just that "In europe is better", any bench warmer, any player of lower/middle team is move valorized by him than a player here. This kind of thinking is of low level,total dumbness and incapacity to see the quality of Alex or Robinho did when playing here, much superior to several players in europe.
See, now I agree. Being a bench-warmer in Europe is not better. I doubt that would happen to Robinho considering what he's achieved so far.

He did not stated a fact. Saying "You should go to Europe" is not a fact, but an opinion! A consel! Not a fact.
Fair enough. He said that because Europe is better though and that is a fact - the best leagues in Europe, and the Champions League, are better than the best leagues in South America and the Libertadores.

They do not leave just for the money, they leave for some status. And As long someone who is high representative like the National Team coach encourages players to leave despite the huge effort of his team to keep him there
Again, Parreira doesn't give a damn. You may find this irresponsible (and frankly it is to some degree) but it's not his fault that players move to Europe. If Brazil were the best option, he'd want them to be in Brazil.

(Are you not thinking that from Robinho point of view, this means : Want world cup, to raise your chances as starting ? Go to europe?) then not even with better wages. This is negative propaganda from inside. Parreira should keep his mouth shut.
Actually, I don't believe Robinho should think that way - because right now he is the biggest star in South America. While I don't think he'd end up on the bench anywhere in Europe, there is a small chance he might - simply because he'd be going to a new team, new coach etc. So he might be better off staying in Brazil. If Robinho thinks that Parreira means he'll have a better chance of starting by moving to Europe, then he'd be wrong, and that would be his mistake, not Parreira's.

Parreira can say "he should move to Europe [to play against the best]". It is Robinho's responsibility to decide - "do I move to Europe now but risk problems adjusting, or do I stay here, continue to dominate and only move after WC2006?".

In general I agree that people in positions of authority have a responsibility to watch what they say. I don't believe Parreira said anything he shouldn't have. Besides, it's not like Parreira has never spoken to Robinho in person, why assume that what he said to the media (and how the media interprets it, or how you interpret it) matches what Parreira told him when they were together for the national team?
 
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