Xtratime Community banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
664 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Traore
Biscan
Hamann
Diao
Diouf
Cheyrou
Smicer
Vignal
Dudek
Kirkland
Gerrard( 30 million)
Baros.(10 million)


All will be gone.
time to build
 

·
Premier Player
Joined
·
3,682 Posts
What wrong did Baros do to deserve to be sold?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
You know that might actually be good, teams tend to play better with fewer players. Just look at Everton. Of course the likely result is that you will plummit into footballing abyss.

"Building" is gradual. That means that through selling 10-15 players in the 1st and 2nd string, you are not building. You are imploding upon yourself. You cannot replace your entire team and expect to accomplish anything, especially if your replacements are young and not of wordclass level.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,245 Posts
Baros has done nothing wrong, whats Gerrard done wrong? Nothing, it's just that sadly, they most probably willl be leaving.

Heres mine,

Traore
Biscan
Diao
Cheyrou
Smicer
Vignal
Dudek
Kirkland
Pellegrino
Finnan
Nunez
Mellor

I'd keep Hamann and give Diouf another chance.
 

·
Winter is Coming.
Joined
·
8,131 Posts
King of the Kop said:
Baros has done nothing wrong, whats Gerrard done wrong? Nothing, it's just that sadly, they most probably willl be leaving.

Heres mine,

Traore
Biscan
Diao
Cheyrou
Smicer
Vignal
Dudek
Kirkland
Pellegrino
Finnan
Nunez
Mellor

I'd keep Hamann and give Diouf another chance.
Why the hell are we talking about this already?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,753 Posts
My sentiments exactly O-NRG.

Other Pool forums are hopping on this too but there's no reason why we should be doing this.

According to the logic of many here, Traore should have been sold at least 1 season ago. Then he came very well under Rafa and played excellently at times at LB. If he's good enough for the time being, then he's good enough. He hasn't proven otherwise. If Rafa thinks he's good enough for the time being, the he's good enough for us.

The same goes for many in the list. Its not the end of the season yet. WHy the bloody hell are we talking so early for? Its these kind of things that make us less patient of a fan, and bring further unwarranted pressure on the manager and the repective players.

If its GH who is our current manager, then it might be justified by talking abt this now. But our manager is now Rafa, so give him some respect with his decision to keep some of the so-called deadwoods of GH's squad. At least those deadwoods (Biscan, Traore, Mellor, Finnan etc) has looked more alive in the last 6 months than the 2-3 years they were under GH.

And why should we cash in on Baros anyway? And speaking of that, why should we be talking of cashing in on Gerrard?

Don't give me the be-realistic bullshit. If you want to realistic, then just focus on the next game and that's it. THAT'S realistic.
 

·
Premier Player
Joined
·
5,940 Posts
Although I agree it's a bit too early to be thinking of who leaves.. I disagree with some of your views Karrma..

karrmadamaii said:
According to the logic of many here, Traore should have been sold at least 1 season ago. Then he came very well under Rafa and played excellently at times at LB. If he's good enough for the time being, then he's good enough. He hasn't proven otherwise. If Rafa thinks he's good enough for the time being, the he's good enough for us.
Yes, Traore has improved.. but his main improvement has been in offence.. where he's playing a trick or two and acting much more confidently.. defensively, he's still very shaky.. and ORG pointed this out a month ago.. the lad simply slips TOO often.. I don't think there's a player in the league who slips as much as Djimi does.. I'm glad the lad has improved.. but I don't believe his improvement is enough to keep him.. he's still very unreliable.. and I don't think we need to remember how good he is at decision making!! Almost all successful teams build their strength from the solidity of their defence.. Arsenal looked shaky once Sol was out and Cygan was in.. Real Madrid with all their firepower were effected over all by their issues at the back (remember RC is excellent in offence.. but lots of question marks at the back).. Chelsea & Milan last year have had a solid defence and GK.. that has given the whole team more confidence to attack and adventure into the opposing half.. the freedom given to Duff, Robben and Lampard.. or Kaka with Milan are a result of their solid back four (and DM).. With that in mind, I have to say I've NEVER been confident of our defence with Traore in the line up.. not last year.. not now.. he does have a good game or two under his belt.. but over all, he makes lots of errors, is easily beaten and simply.. slips a lot! I would definetly sell if it was up to me..

karrmadamaii said:
Don't give me the be-realistic bullshit. If you want to realistic, then just focus on the next game and that's it. THAT'S realistic.
Sorry, that's not being realistic, that's short term thinking :) Although I agree it's impossible to define in January who WOULD go in the summer.. but I think not just us, but Rafa is building a picture about who SHOULD go in the summer.. and I don't believe a little long term thinking is bad at all.. yes, focus should be on the coming games (one at a time).. but that doesn't mean we have to wait till summer to know who will go and who we should get.. Chelsea bought Robben in January to arrive in the summer.. not saying we should do the same as the Chelsea purchasing methodology is unmatched in football.. but I would think Rafa is planning on how his team will look like next season..

I don't think it's a matter of supporting the boss or club.. thinking a player should go doesn't make a person a lesser fan.. he just believes that player is not suitable for our club.. I support Rafa 100% and totally believe he'll 'make the turn' for us.. but it doesn't mean I want to cling to some of the players who are past it or simply do not have the required skill and attitude..

my 2c :)
 

·
Premier Player
Joined
·
5,940 Posts
Oh and regarding the list bjb listed.. If u'd notice.. 4 of the list are already loaned out.. those I expect to leave in the summer for sure..

I also expect one of the GKs and maybe Biscan to go.. Smicer's status depends on how he gets back from his injury and blends into the 'Rafa way' of thinking and playing..

As for Gerrard and Baros.. if the players want to stay.. I'd keep them forever!! by far the most committed (with Carra) players we have..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,753 Posts
Yasir said:
Yes, Traore has improved.. but his main improvement has been in offence.. where he's playing a trick or two and acting much more confidently.. defensively, he's still very shaky.. and ORG pointed this out a month ago.. the lad simply slips TOO often.. I don't think there's a player in the league who slips as much as Djimi does.. I'm glad the lad has improved.. but I don't believe his improvement is enough to keep him.. he's still very unreliable.. and I don't think we need to remember how good he is at decision making!! Almost all successful teams build their strength from the solidity of their defence.. Arsenal looked shaky once Sol was out and Cygan was in.. Real Madrid with all their firepower were effected over all by their issues at the back (remember RC is excellent in offence.. but lots of question marks at the back).. Chelsea & Milan last year have had a solid defence and GK.. that has given the whole team more confidence to attack and adventure into the opposing half.. the freedom given to Duff, Robben and Lampard.. or Kaka with Milan are a result of their solid back four (and DM).. With that in mind, I have to say I've NEVER been confident of our defence with Traore in the line up.. not last year.. not now.. he does have a good game or two under his belt.. but over all, he makes lots of errors, is easily beaten and simply.. slips a lot! I would definetly sell if it was up to me..
As I have mentioned in my post, he's good enough for the moment. Planning ahead is a sound option, and it is a practice in management. However, in this instance, us speculating things like this at a time where not only Rafa is struggling to imprint his vision of football onto the pitch, but the players, esp the players in the list themselves are struggling to not only justify Rafa's trust in them, but also justify themselves to be a worthy footballer.

As for Traore's case, I was not defending him in the context of thinking him as a future permanent LB here. However, my points are clear enough, the lad has not had the most comfortable of rides in his Pool carrer until Rafa got here. The lad has improved his confidence more than any of us could have imagined, and evn though he still lacks all the things you listed to make our defence better, he's the one we have right now next to Riise and Warnock.

Now is not the time to speculate and judge. Now is the time to think and stabilize ourselves. I think it would be psychologically damaging to Traore who's getting games nowadays to play in the side with a voice telling him in his mind that he'll leave at the end of the season constantly.

Every knows for a fact that Rafa will review the squad at the end of the season, and make his decisions of who to keep. The players don't need us to speculate to show them that. What they need is silence from us, so that they can concentrate on playing and giving their best on the pitch.

Its not easy playing in front of a capacity crowd and trying to give your best but knowing every touch you take draws scepticism and doubt. Ask Dudek.

This kind of things are not mentally healthy as we are in a mini-crises ourselves. Talking like this might make things bigger than they really are.

If Traore has sucked consistently every time he takes to the field then all said against him is justified yasir, but he's not that bad so far.

At the end of the season, lads, at the end of the season please.

Yasir said:
Sorry, that's not being realistic, that's short term thinking :) Although I agree it's impossible to define in January who WOULD go in the summer.. but I think not just us, but Rafa is building a picture about who SHOULD go in the summer.. and I don't believe a little long term thinking is bad at all.. yes, focus should be on the coming games (one at a time).. but that doesn't mean we have to wait till summer to know who will go and who we should get.. Chelsea bought Robben in January to arrive in the summer.. not saying we should do the same as the Chelsea purchasing methodology is unmatched in football.. but I would think Rafa is planning on how his team will look like next season..
If Rafa is building his team for next season, and is reviewing all his current players, then with around 20-od games to go till the end of teh season, I think its only fair that the players are given room to concentrate for the final push.

Rafa needs confident, composed and thinking players.

Players can be confident, composed and thoughtful on the pitch only when they have nothing else to worry abt on the pitch.

We give them space, we let them take us to where we need to be at the end of the season. Then after that, let our guns do the talking.
 

·
Premier Player
Joined
·
5,940 Posts
I agree Rafa needs all that from his players.. but much more than that, he needs players committed to the cause.. committed to give their ultimate best for the club to succeed.. that hunger and winning attitude is the main missing link in our club's players..

Oh and I disagree again about Traore.. unless he checks the forums every now and then.. and finds that people want him out..

come to think of it.. The fans wanting a player out can swing both ways with how it affects a player.. he could take it as a man, work harder to prove his doubters wrong.. or simply let it get to him and turn into a bundle of nerves.. just as when u're a club on a very bad run that has seen u pinned to the bottom of the table.. the squad can just lose hope and accept relegation or fight till the last moment.. knowing that even if they went down.. they went down with a fight..

Again.. it's ALL an attitude issue..

Kinda relating it to work.. If I'm at work.. and I know management are having concerns over my performance.. I have 2 options.. either start looking for a new job (giving up).. or working my a$$ off to prove I'm worth every penny they pay me.. Sorry, but I'd take that 2nd option.. That's what the players should be thinking of..

So in other words, I don't want the squad to be further reduced now.. but I do want the under acheiving players to know there is discomfort and dismay from what they are showing.. the choice is up to them.. prove they're worth the red shirt they wear.. or chicken out.. Hope they do the first one.. and with Rafa.. I expect them to do it!
 

·
Winter is Coming.
Joined
·
8,131 Posts
basically with your lists we are not going to have much of a squad left and i dont' see us making all that much money from selling half our squad. we'll free up a lot of wages but transfer fees we will be taking a hit. since you insist here is how i see it.

Should leave:

Traore
Smicer
mellor
diao
cheyrou
dudek
nunez
pellegrino
josemi

I hope baros does not leave on his own this year, but i have a feeling stevie g is on his way out this summer.

Hamann should stay just because we will be taking a hit from Stevie G's leaving, Biscan should stay because he is decent backup.

The way i see it, you can't clear out all that many people from your squad in one summer unless u have money including fees earned to spend on players. If Rafa wer to clear out like KOTK and bjb were to, he'd be facing a thin squad since the only players you want him to buy are 'quality players' which will cost say 7million each, you will have no depth for the upcoming season.

Expect any offloading to be done 3 or 4 at a time, not 12 in one summer.

And, Baros has done nothing to deserve being offloaded.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
302 Posts
karrmadamaii said:
My sentiments exactly O-NRG.

Other Pool forums are hopping on this too but there's no reason why we should be doing this.

................

Don't give me the be-realistic bullshit. If you want to realistic, then just focus on the next game and that's it. THAT'S realistic.


Brilliant post mate. All these rumours about Stevie are just that, rumours. Do the puffers on here resigned to losing him really think he'll leave if we win the Carling Cup, finish top 4 and do well in the CL? He loves this Club. Rafa is a brilliant coach and I have faith in this club.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,245 Posts
Owenization-NRG said:
And, Baros has done nothing to deserve being offloaded.
Ofcourse he hasnt, but he may leave off his own back.

And people, ofcourse Rafa isnt going to get rid of all these players, its just who'd id get rid of and who i think is not good enough for LFC.
 

·
International
Joined
·
1,878 Posts
Any good gaffer worth his salt will try to work with whatever playing talent he has on hand before thinking about selling them off... this is as much as I wish that the real world of football is like the two-dimensional, spreadsheet-based footy management computer games.
 

·
Premier Player
Joined
·
5,940 Posts
and that's exactly what Rafa has been doing.. none of the teams fighting with us for the 4th spot have come close to us in terms of injuries (err, well Boro have :)).. yet we're there considering we've had injuries right, left and center..

Agree with ORG.. IMO, what will happen is the loaned out players will be shipped out for good (Cheyrou, Vignal, Diouf, Diao).. that would be wave 1.. As for wave2, it will depend on what offers Rafa gets.. But I'd expect it would include players like Smicer, Traore and maybe Dudek..

Josemi won't leave this summer.. Kinda feel the same goes for Nunez.. but especially Josemi. Yes, his last few games were not up to standards.. but his first few were.. and I think Rafa will try to mold him into something better..

Hamann has just signed a new contract.. I expect he's staying unless a big German club wants him back (assuring him of a first team spot).. which most probably won't happen..

So I don't expect a HUGE clear out.. and to be honest, I'm much more interested in who comes in.. Yes, quality costs money.. but I wouldn't say £7m a player.. Spurs just signed 2 Very Good players for a combined £8m (Andy Reid and Dawson from Forest).. Henchoz moved to Celtic for nothing.. Geremi was going to move to Boro for £3m.. but he didn't want the move north.. in other words.. there are bargain deals out there.. Rafa and the scouting team need to find them..

Which reminds me.. How much did we pay for Titi Camara?? Can anyone deny he had a HELL of a bang in his first season? :)
 

·
Winter is Coming.
Joined
·
8,131 Posts
Yasir said:
and that's exactly what Rafa has been doing.. none of the teams fighting with us for the 4th spot have come close to us in terms of injuries (err, well Boro have :)).. yet we're there considering we've had injuries right, left and center..

Agree with ORG.. IMO, what will happen is the loaned out players will be shipped out for good (Cheyrou, Vignal, Diouf, Diao).. that would be wave 1.. As for wave2, it will depend on what offers Rafa gets.. But I'd expect it would include players like Smicer, Traore and maybe Dudek..

Josemi won't leave this summer.. Kinda feel the same goes for Nunez.. but especially Josemi. Yes, his last few games were not up to standards.. but his first few were.. and I think Rafa will try to mold him into something better..

Hamann has just signed a new contract.. I expect he's staying unless a big German club wants him back (assuring him of a first team spot).. which most probably won't happen..

So I don't expect a HUGE clear out.. and to be honest, I'm much more interested in who comes in.. Yes, quality costs money.. but I wouldn't say £7m a player.. Spurs just signed 2 Very Good players for a combined £8m (Andy Reid and Dawson from Forest).. Henchoz moved to Celtic for nothing.. Geremi was going to move to Boro for £3m.. but he didn't want the move north.. in other words.. there are bargain deals out there.. Rafa and the scouting team need to find them..

Which reminds me.. How much did we pay for Titi Camara?? Can anyone deny he had a HELL of a bang in his first season? :)
Just wanted to clear up that I meant 7 mil on Average, which accounts for good deals and pricey players.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,111 Posts
we should sell

Igor Biscan: has done quite well this season but still not good enough. (+3m)
Salif Diao: no need to say a word. (1-2m)
Bruno Cheyrou: we should get at least 1m for him. (2m)
Antonio Nuñez: not good enough. (+1m)
El Hadji Diouf: don't want that spitting prick wearing the Liverpool shirt again. (2-4m)
Vignal (sp?): sell him to Rangers. (1-2m)
Hyypia: sell him to buy a youn CB. (3-4m)
Neil Mellor: not good enough to play for Liverpool, I prefer Pongolle. (2-3m)
Jerzy Dudek: please sell him. (3m)
Chris Kirkland: there are much better GK around. (3m)
Vladimir Smicer: might give him next season since he didn't play this one.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top