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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Studenten hardhandig weggeslagen van Maagdenhuis
Amsterdam, 1 maart 2005 — Sympathiserende studenten bij de bezetting van het maagdenhuis zijn hardhandig weggeslagen door de Mobiele Eenheid. De studenten betuigden hun sympathie met de bezetting van het Maagdenhuis, die bedoeld was om de plannen voor het invoeren van een studierantsoen van tafel te krijgen en medebestuur op de instellingen te realiseren. De actie was geweldloos, maar de sympathisanten moesten hun steun met harde klappen bekopen.

Staatssecretaris Rutte heeft studenten zelf opgeroepen om actie te gaan voeren. Maar niet alleen weigert hij om met de studenten in gesprek te gaan, hij staat het ook toe dat studenten afgeranseld worden als ze dan voor hun rechten opkomen. "De staatssecretaris behandelt studenten als speeltjes," aldus een vertwijfelde Kim Toering, voorzitter LSVb. "Dit gedrag is schandalig, zo ga je toch niet met je studenten om?"

Vanmiddag, (dinsdag 1 maart) om 14:00 zal de staatssecretaris zich moeten verantwoorden voor de Tweede Kamer. Direct daarna, om 15:30 zal de LSVb een persconferentie in Nieuwspoort houden over het gebeurde, en haar plannen voor de komende tijd bekend maken.
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Rutte is an A$$HOLE!! The freaking idiot wants to charge us students more (EUR 4500 a year instead of a near 2000!!! :eekani: ) if we dont finish our studies in 5,5 years. Absurd!!! He himself studied GESCHIEDENIS which took him no less than 8 :eek: years!!!! :scream:

We gotta face reality: our tuition is crap. We dont have good profs, our lectures suck -well unless one of you disagrees- we have to do too much on our own, pay a ridiculous sum compared to Belgium and Germany and receive a lousy scholarship that doesnt even cover the amount thats needed for studybooks.

I say fvck them all :finger: :yuck:
 

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yeah I've heard and read about it. Pretty rediculous. Only I'm pretty lazy when it comes to taking up acties. Getting enough lads for my indoor footie team each week is hard enough work as it comes :D

you planning anything btw?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, I also want to play indoor :D

Nah, I am not planning anything Im usually not like that but in this case I support them 100% and I am actually a bit proud of the students :proud: :) I mean can you believe it the guy himself needed 8 years for a relatively easy study. They have gone mad in Den Haag. What do we and our parents pay that much taxes for I wonder :eek:

If the plans go through I suggest all students go on strike.
 

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ok , come along :pp :D a few weeks ago one of our opponents didn't have enough players so one of the opponents gfs played along and surprise surprise we lost :howler: we also lost not so long ago to a side which had 2 stone drunk players !! :rolleyes: we really suck :D

As for the gov and tax, I won't start on them before I get a ban :D
 

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Drulo said:
I've already started!



:D
by simply not going cos it's snowing? :D

not the only one I see :eek: :pp
 

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Well, that's one way of looking at it I guess, I however like to think of myself as a leader, so I've set the example. :D

You too huh Wally?
 

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indeed :D it's in all Feyenoorders blood :proud:

As you can see the usual bunch are doing nothing in this struggle, government suck-ups :ass:
 

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This Rutte really doesn't get it: spending money on education is a good investment if a country wants to have a lot of people with high incomes (and therefore big tax-payments) in 10-20-30-40 years. But Rutte wants to cut costs at the short term, but he doesn't realize that he will pay for it later. These baby-boomers got everything, the sky was the limit, and as a thank you they'll quit working even at 60 leaving us with a big budget deficit and huge debts. And those idiots think that's normal...
When I finished studying, I'm out of here....
 

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monte said:
If the plans go through I suggest all students go on strike.
Personally I don't know why it is so impossible to finish your studies in 5.5 years. If you work on it, you can finish it. Instead, most students do nothing, cash in heavily on their 'bijbaan' and keep getting Stufi every month from IBG, more than me of course, because I get the lowest of the lowest. :rolleyes: Instead, they could also try to finish their studies in time, or am I talking completely out of my arse now?

I finished HAVO in 5 years, I am finishing HBO in 4 years this summer and then I want to get my Master in 2 years, and if someone is not working hard on his studies, its me.

But like I said, maybe I'm talking rubbish here, but maybe someone can explain it to me better.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Prince-O said:
Personally I don't know why it is so impossible to finish your studies in 5.5 years. If you work on it, you can finish it. Instead, most students do nothing, cash in heavily on their 'bijbaan' and keep getting Stufi every month from IBG, more than me of course, because I get the lowest of the lowest. :rolleyes: Instead, they could also try to finish their studies in time, or am I talking completely out of my arse now?

I finished HAVO in 5 years, I am finishing HBO in 4 years this summer and then I want to get my Master in 2 years, and if someone is not working hard on his studies, its me.

But like I said, maybe I'm talking rubbish here, but maybe someone can explain it to me better.
That is not the point of my anger. It is possible to finish your studies in 5,5 years - BUT it is not reasonable to charge so much more simply because you don't. We already pay a lot a year*. Besides, we pay a lot of taxes compared to other countries. However, the quality of our education SUCKS. I now go to Belgian dentists and doctors and they all say the same. It is cheaper in their country, but on top of that also a lot better. Even in Serbia/Romania/Bulgaria the study geneeskunde is better (and I say 'even' because it usually surprises Dutch people). Another main point of anger is, and I repeat it again, that RUTTE NEEDED 8 YEARS!! He had all the time he needed, and his studiefinanciering was higher as well. You dont hear him say this though! :nono:

A student that lives on his own cannot even cover the room expense with this scholarship - let alone books, clothing, food.. we need jobs and parents to help. No, I have really had it in this country as well so Krijn I understand you completely. They even fool us saying everything is so well arranged for us but that is not true. It seems so on paper, Our deathrate for sick people is the second highest of any EU member state, only Portugal is below us. Can you imagine? Only Portugal. But ok I'm dwelling from the subject.

Young people should be given the chance to enjoy their studentlife. A research from 2 years already indicated that Dutch peolpe have to work the hardest of the world because 1) our professors are not of good quality 2) too much has to be done in too little time 3) not enough support. there is a shortage of rooms in almost every city and almost every student that lives on his own has a 20h job. Well I think you get the picture, there is not enough time left. Prince if you get the lowest of the lowest that means you live with your parents. Were you to move out you would surely getmore but it still would not cover the expense of your room. In Amsterdam some rooms cost 450E a month believe it or not.

Prince Quote
If you work on it, you can finish it. Instead, most students do nothing, cash in heavily on their 'bijbaan' and keep getting Stufi every month from IBG

No, do you know who cash in heavily? :eek: I wont say it. You should know the answer yourself if you know who walk the streets of our big cities in the early afternoon and do $hit. Or check the $$$ our politici make from their bijbaantjes :mad:



*some comparative stats:
Finland: collegegeld EUR 0,
Belgie: collegegeld EUR 50 / 80 (verschilt tussen HBO en universiteit) Duitsland: collegegeld EUR 0 (soms inschrijfgeld).
 

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monte> I totally agree with you. I'm sure it differs from study to study and from city to city but I know that the average time a student needs to finish of Mechanical Engineering in Delft is 7.2 years, instead of the 5 years that stands for it. The people that have finished that study, even after 8+ years, are highly rated by employers and will pay every investment that has been done in them during the course of their study back via taxes within a couple of years. One of my study-advisors once told me that the pressure is so high that everybody has a dipje somewhere during those years. Even the big fat nerds. And that is because the workload is extremely high. A nominal student will have to work 60 hours per week for at least the first 3 years if he wants to finish his study in 5 years. Is that possible? Maybe. Is that healthy? Nope! It will only result in people without any social skills. But that's Mechanical Engineering. Studies like law or psychology are more doable, I believe.

Prince-O> So if you finish of your master in two years, you'd still have to pay that ultra-high college-geld. But the route you took isn't really the route where the problems are with the new system. The problems are mostly with people who went to university after VWO. Things are badly organized at university and that means that there are a lot of people that can't help it that they have to study longer, but the universities. Maybe a stupid question from my side, but why didn't you go via VWO? Laziness?
 

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monte said:
That is not the point of my anger. It is possible to finish your studies in 5,5 years - BUT it is not reasonable to charge so much more simply because you don't. We already pay a lot a year*. Besides, we pay a lot of taxes compared to other countries.
Ok, I see. I agree with you that a rise from approximately 2000E to 4500E is ridiculous, but on the other hand I do think something needs to be done agaisnt these 'eeuwige studenten'. Not those who simply cannot finish within 5 years or so, due to whatever reason, but those students who simply don't feel like working because they enjoy their relaxed student life.

monte said:
However, the quality of our education SUCKS. I now go to Belgian dentists and doctors and they all say the same. It is cheaper in their country, but on top of that also a lot better. Even in Serbia/Romania/Bulgaria the study geneeskunde is better (and I say 'even' because it usually surprises Dutch people).
True, education is very poor in this country. No doubt about that.

monte said:
Another main point of anger is, and I repeat it again, that RUTTE NEEDED 8 YEARS!! He had all the time he needed, and his studiefinanciering was higher as well. You dont hear him say this though! :nono:
8 years is laughable. :dielaugh: How the hell did he do that? :howler:

monte said:
Young people should be given the chance to enjoy their studentlife. A research from 2 years already indicated that Dutch peolpe have to work the hardest of the world because 1) our professors are not of good quality 2) too much has to be done in too little time 3) not enough support. there is a shortage of rooms in almost every city and almost every student that lives on his own has a 20h job. Well I think you get the picture, there is not enough time left. Prince if you get the lowest of the lowest that means you live with your parents. Were you to move out you would surely getmore but it still would not cover the expense of your room. In Amsterdam some rooms cost 450E a month believe it or not.
You are correct.

monte said:
No, do you know who cash in heavily? :eek: I wont say it. You should know the answer yourself if you know who walk the streets of our big cities in the early afternoon and do $hit.
I am not quite sure who you mean, but I can take a guess. Off Topic: Did you see probleemwijken yesterday at SBS6? I was shellshocked to see that people are really like that! :embarass:
 

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Krijn said:
Prince-O> So if you finish of your master in two years, you'd still have to pay that ultra-high college-geld. But the route you took isn't really the route where the problems are with the new system. The problems are mostly with people who went to university after VWO. Things are badly organized at university and that means that there are a lot of people that can't help it that they have to study longer, but the universities. Maybe a stupid question from my side, but why didn't you go via VWO? Laziness?
:lala:

Hehe, how did you guess? :D In the 'brugklas' I was on course for VWO, but then I decided that I didn't want to go there (because all my friends went to HAVO :rolleyes: ) so I cooled it a bit so I went to HAVO. Then on HAVO I could have made the switch to VWO, but I didn't want to because life is easy at HAVO when you don't find it really difficult. Then I went on to do HBO and only last year I thought of continuing my studies to get my Master. Reasons: I'm not feeling the working life yet, and I'm quite young (21 when I'm finished). I'm enjoying my student life though, but I want to finish it asap. Especially because my parents pay everything, so I would feel ashamed to just mess around and take it easy. :)
 

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Yeah, I know it. I took the VWO-route, and together with a friend of mine we compared that to 'where we would've been had we taken the HAVO-HBO-WO route. We both have still 2+ more years to go, but via HAVO/HBO we would've been busy finishing our master-phase....
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Prince-O said:
Ok, I see. I agree with you that a rise from approximately 2000E to 4500E is ridiculous, but on the other hand I do think something needs to be done agaisnt these 'eeuwige studenten'. Not those who simply cannot finish within 5 years or so, due to whatever reason, but those students who simply don't feel like working because they enjoy their relaxed student life.
Why do you think something needs to be done against them? Their attitude should not be praised byt do they cost our government so much money? Cause I fail to see it. Everyone can get 4 years of studiefinanciering (excl the longer studies that may have a longer period of free studif.) so after that period, it will cost the student $$ since he needs to loan. And, he still has to pay those 1800 so it's not like the state is paying anything for those eeuwige students. The longer you study, the more you can get yourself in trouble with the loan thing and on the job market where people might prefer applicants who studied better and faster. :) Yes I saw the probleemwijken show and thats the kind of people I am talking about whatever background they may have there are plenty of people doing nothing getting an uitkering that's WAY higher than our studiefinanciering, that pisses me off :mad:

Krijn yes maybe you and your friend would because you are on VWO thinking level but there are plenty of HBO students that switched to uni when they were finished at HBO, and they couldnt cope with the amount of reading/learning that we have. Fact is that HBO'ers can use 4 years for what we have to do in 3 years, while in those 4 years they do not match the inhoud we have to do in those 3 at all. When they come to uni they first need 1 year extra, before they can start their masters. So, what we need to do in 4 (hardly anyone manages ;) ) they can do in 6. And seeing things now, the majority of them wont make it in those 6 years as they're not used to the uni system.
 

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monte said:
Why do you think something needs to be done against them? Their attitude should not be praised byt do they cost our government so much money? Cause I fail to see it. Everyone can get 4 years of studiefinanciering (excl the longer studies that may have a longer period of free studif.) so after that period, it will cost the student $$ since he needs to loan. And, he still has to pay those 1800 so it's not like the state is paying anything for those eeuwige students. The longer you study, the more you can get yourself in trouble with the loan thing and on the job market where people might prefer applicants who studied better and faster. :) Yes I saw the probleemwijken show and thats the kind of people I am talking about whatever background they may have there are plenty of people doing nothing getting an uitkering that's WAY higher than our studiefinanciering, that pisses me off :mad:
Ok, maybe it is not my problem, you are right there. I do think that companies are more eager to give a job to the applicant who has finished his or her studies faster, because it shows a certain drive that companies like. On the other hand, the government does give subsidiaries (sp??) to the higher education. You pay a maximum of 2k to for your studies every year, but if the government would not give those subsidiaries, it would have been much higher, so those eternal students profit from this as well. Still, it is not really my problem though.

I think that the Stufi should be increased, but I think that it should also help to create more of a drive with the students. Maybe they should increase the amount of points you must get for instance, because you only need to get 21 points in your first year to not lose your Stufi, which is incredibly low of course. I think Stufi should be more prestation-oriented. Increase Stufi, but make the students payback when they **** up or when they are lazy bums. By doing this, you'll reward students with higher Stufi, but you discourage the 'profiteurs'.

About probleemwijken: Assen-Oost :rolleyes:, Waar kan ik hier ergens een motie van treurnis indienen? :dontcare:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
You pay a maximum of 2k to for your studies every year, but if the government would not give those subsidiaries, it would have been much higher, so those eternal students profit from this as well.

Don't agree with that :cool: Cause its not the case in Germany and Belgium either. And don't forget, our tax rate is higher. I think they bedonderen us by saying that they pay heavy subsidiaries. (in fact its the people who pay for it).

As for the 21 points, that was in the old system. Now, with the European credentials it's gone up (you need over 30). Stufi needs to increase for sure (will never happen) and can decrease to its current level or below if one f*cks up. I could live with that :)


About those people - did you notice the teeth of that guy whose girl was pregnant? Oh my God... hard to believe that people actually live that way :rolleyes:
 

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Yeah the pregnant girl with her boyfriend was laughable:

SBS guy: Wat gaan jullie nu doen?
Tokkieachtige jongen: Nou euh, huisje regelen, uitkering regelen

:dielaugh:
 
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