OT - Everything Basketball

Maks, you're embarrassing yourself again...

Let's start with Teodosic - not sure how you can label him as a pussy just because he opts to play in the Euroleague over the NBA. In the Euroleague he's a star, in the NBA, he's a back-up PG who would play limited minutes, much like Dellavedova. Sure, if Teo gets lucky and 3-4 players go down on his team (including the starting PG) he'll play a lot more minutes, but otherwise, he won't, much like Dellavedova wasn't and won't going forward once Irving gets healthy again, especially now that the Cavs have added Mo Williams. Let's not kid ourselves though, Teodosic is a better player than Dellavedova, even if he doesn't play in the NBA. There are other players in the Euroleague who are better players than some NBA players too it's just there are factors - money, role on the team, culture, families, living, etc.

But it's the same when one looks at your argument about Australia in basketball. Serbia has a much more difficult path to the Olympics or any other main tournament (WC, EC, etc) than Australia does. Don't Australia and New Zealand automatically qualify for the WC? They do a 2-leg play-off with both teams advancing to the tournament regardless of who wins. Serbia has to go against teams like Spain, France, Lithuania, Germany, Russia, Croatia, etc. I believe the only difference for Australia in qualifying for the Olympics is that they must beat New Zealand as only 1 team goes. Again, a 50-50 chance. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm correct, you can't even compare that to the European qualification for the Olympics.

Your problem is that you just look at the 'ends' and not the means to those 'ends'. Dellavedova is amazing because he happened to be on a Cavs team that made it to the NBA finals. He also happened to play a little bit (and play well) mainly because the Cav's roster got depleted following all the injuries. Again though, if we go by your logic, Sasa Pavlovic is then an amazing player too, because he also played for a Cavs team that made the NBA finals, and even played more than Dellavedova, putting up better #s.

Then you look at Australia and talk about how they've played in more Olympic tournaments than Serbia and as a result, are the better team. Unfortunately, the two can't be compared as they have completely different qualification situations as Australia has to beat 1 team - New Zealand while Serbia (or any other European team) has to either win the WC, make the finals of the EC, or make it along with 2 or 3 other teams in an Olympic qualifying tournament.

Why not look at the tournaments where both Serbia and Australia featured in post break-up of Yugoslavia, and see the results.

Olympics 1996:
2nd - Yugoslavia
4th - Australia
H2H: Yugoslavia 91-68 Australia

WC 1998:
1st - Yugoslavia
9th - Australia

Olympics 2000:
4th - Australia
6th - Yugoslavia
H2H: Yugoslavia 80-66 Australia

WC 2002:
1st - Yugoslavia
Did not qualify- Australia

Olympics 2004:
9th - Australia
11th - Yugoslavia

WC 2006:
11th - Serbia+Montenegro
13th - Australia

Olympics 2008:
7th - Australia
Did not qualify - Serbia

WC 2010:
4th - Serbia
10th - Australia
H2H: Serbia 94-79 Australia

Olympics 2012:
7th - Australia
Did not qualify - Serbia

WC 2014:
2nd - Serbia
12th - Australia

While we will never know for sure, I think it's quite fair to assume that if Serbia had the same simple path to the Olympics as Australia, they would be there more regularly, and thus the results between the two when looking at the Olympics and nothing else, isn't the whole story. One question for you Maks - if Australia had to go H2H with Serbia for each Olympic qualifying tournament in a 2-leg tie, do you believe that Australia would win more so than not?

Maksimilian said:

Yea you used the same excuse about Football as well before.

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When did I do that? It's not an excuse, it's a fact. Australia has an easier path to major tournaments than European teams do. Not sure why anyone would try to argue otherwise.

Maksimilian said:

Australia only makes it because it goes through Asia/Oceania blah blah blah. Nevermind that when they do get there they out peform Serbia as well. Nevermind when they were in the same group as Serbia they thoroughly embaressed them on the world stage with a bunch of D-Graders.

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Embarrassed? Give me a break. Serbia should have won that game, but didn't. Australia took their chances and that's sport, fair play to them. It's happened many times before where the better team doesn't win the game, hell I didn't think the U20s 'deserved' to beat Brazil in the final but we took our chances, while Brazil wasted theirs, and with a little luck, we won. This happens all the time in sports.

Maksimilian said:

Never mind that they won the Asian Cup this year against teams like Japan and South Korea aho also regularly out peform Serbia in World Cups. You gonna tell me Australia are scared to come against the mighty Albanians and Armenians? Or the Azerbaijanis and Kazachs?

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:howler: When did I even suggest this? Those aren't the only teams in Europe though, are they? The point is, I don't think Australia would have qualified for the previous WC had they replaced us in our previous group with Belgium, Croatia, Scotland, and Wales. Do you?

Maksimilian said:

Were in a group of 5 for these qualifications. Where three of the teams can get auto qualifying. Is that really so tough? Do you really think Australia couldnt make it through?

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Are you talking basketball now or football? What are the other teams, provide me with the info before I answer your question. 3 qualifying out of 5 teams is a pretty good deal.

Maksimilian said:

Im not going to respond to the rest of your dribble. Its all been talked about before. The main points here stand.

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Always looking for the easy way out, aren't you?

Maksimilian said:

* The Olympics are more important than the Word Championships. Australia has consistently peformed better than Serbia than them. Just deal with it. No one gives a fukc about the basketball world cup.

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Right. Why not tell that to all the big named players who have played in it over the years on all teams. Big named players play in the EC too, proving that it is a respectable competition.

Maksimilian said:

When you have a 'World Cup' where you have, at best, 4/150 of the best players in the world competing : That isnt a 'World Cup'. The Olympics have the best 12 players in the world (Usually from the US) plus a great number of international teams who always bring their best players. Ask anyone on the planet from Spain, Argentina, Russia....even Serbia....if theyde rather have an Olympic medal or a World Cup medal. Ask a Serb like Teodosic if hed rather win an Olympic gold playing against the best the Americans can offer, or against their D-Graders

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Again, your way of thinking is so primitive that it's sad. So, because the Olympics is a bigger event than the WC, that automatically means the WC counts for nothing? What's the matter with you?

Maksimilian said:

* The NBA in terms of quality and popularity os kiles and miles ahead of Euro League. What the MLS is to European Champions League Football is what the Euro League is to the NBA. The best players go there to prove themselves, just like the best internationals footballers go to Europe.

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That's a bad comparison. The MLS mainly has older players who are on the decline. The Euroleague still has some of the best European players playing in it. It's much like how the NBA has some scrubs playing in it too, that's just how it goes. Not every player on Barcelona is world class, just like not every player on the Cavs team is amazing (Dellavedova). Lebron has proven that he can carry scrubs pretty far, and has done so more times than once. Remember Allen Iverson? He did a bit of the same back in the day too before getting smashed by the Lakers in the finals. You need to look at the big picture but unfortunately, I'm starting to think you can't even see it.

Maksimilian said:

Just face it that Australia is currently better at football and basketball than us.

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Based on what? You can probably say that about football considering the recent H2H results, but I still think our crappy team could beat Australia, I mean no offense, but Australia aren't exactly WC. In basketball I don't see how you can say that. Naturally, your way is because you qualify for more Olympics, but again, Australia has to beat New Zealand in order to do so while Serbia has a much tougher path.

Maksimilian said:

Nah trust me its all because of Mihajlovic. I dont understand why he was let go after being ao succesful for the national team. I mean how could we let a mastermind who picked a Zvezda reserve player over Nemanja Matic be let go.

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Let's talk Mihajlovic now, right? I mean, this is a basketball thread, I was trying to discuss basketball with you, but then you duck and run (like you've done before) only to talk about other things.

Maksimilian said:

Ive continuously fought with my identity since he left. How can I be proud of Serbian football (and therefore being Serb) after what we did to Sinisa. Thanks for helping me figure out the problem Mare. I hope one day I can be as psychologically sound as you are and reach 20 000 posts on a forum

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You keep trying to deflect, all the while exposing your complexes in the process. I engage in a discussion with you, you change the subject - try to talk about Miha as though to take jabs at me from the side. If you want to discuss Miha, I'm all ears, but let's be honest, you don't really want to do that, nor do you really want to discuss anything. At least you know that much.

Dule tries having a basketball discussion with you, and it turns to an issue of identity for which you claim Dule is English and not a real Serb or something along those lines. Krle tries having a basketball discussion with you and you give him the 'Dule treatment' only replacing England with Holland. It's a clear pattern, all leaning to one conclusion: you're terribly insecure, and that insecurity continues to get the better of you.

I've asked you questions on the previous page, I believe others have too and these questions I'm talking about all have to do with basketball. Oddly enough, we are posting in a thread titled 'Everything Basketball' and yet you continuously try to switch the topic.

Maksimilian said:

Im not deflecting. I have a life Mare, and it doesn't involve making 20 000 posts on a forum. I dont have time like to reply to the same arguments over and over again like you and a few others here do.

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:howler: You don't have time to reply to the 'same' arguments, yet you bring up Mihajlovic? Guys like you always have an excuse. I mean, you have time to open threads about Bleiburg and other things on a football forum...

Maksimilian said:

Every conversation has gone the same way. Someones brought up Della Vedova or Australian basketball to get me to reply. Ive replied, and then theyve gone on to take pot shots at me. Dule claimed he was a Serb while I wasnt (Never mind that he lives in the diaspora aswell), and Krle did the same thing. All I ever did was compare basketball teams. I never talked about Us vs Them. It was Cetnik wannabees like Dule and Krle who took it as an attack on Serbdom that someone dare claim that Australia is better at football and basketball than Serbia.

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Weren't you the one who originally brought up Dellavedova? I thought it was you who started running your mouth about him being such a great player, playing in the playoffs, making it to the NBA finals, etc. Also, weren't you the one who started with the whole measuring of who's a Serb and how much of a Serb they are? Just discuss basketball, that's what these things have been about, even if most of your statements relating to the topic are ridiculous.

Your problem is that you like to run your mouth but then when people call you out on it, you get personal and change the topic. Now the new one of the day is here you are trying to play the victim card.

I could care less if you were born and raised in Serbia or if you were born and raised in Zambia. If you're gonna come out here and run your mouth, you better be prepared to back up what you say and answer some of the 'tougher questions'. You're not the only one, I've made a habit of exposing others on here through the same methods and will continue to do so.

Maksimilian said:

People are allowed to say im not Serb because I live in the diaspora, but when I call them out for also living in the diaspora they have a cry. Im done with this conversation. It really shows how far in the gutter Serbian football is when people need to continuously bring up Australian Basketball to create traffic in this forum. Im happy that as an Aussie-Serb ive had the chance to support my team (along with Australia) at World Cups, and other International tournaments in both sports.

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You're not done with the conversation though, don't you get it? You're the one who keeps bringing it up. Stick to basketball, who cares about how Serbian someone is or whatever else you are saying. Like I asked you on the previous page - if me, someone living in Canada brought up how Spain was a better football and basketball nation than Australia, would you then ask me why I don't go live in Spain? Much like you've asked Dule and Krle respectively.

Maksimilian said:

You mite have that chance Mare or Krle or Dule if your home nations of Canada, the Netherlands or England ever get a strong enough basketball team.

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Canada actually has some talent coming up, and I'm not bothered by it. I support Canada, why wouldn't I? The Toronto Raptors are my team too, is that supposed to be surprising?

Maksimilian said:

PS. Mare lives in Holland but has so much issues with his identity that he feels likes hes betratying Serbia if he supports Hollands amazing football team :howler::howler:

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I don't live in Holland. Perhaps you meant Krle?

Maksimilian said:

I brought up a player, Della Vedova, in a basketball sub-forum, while said player was competing in the NBA Finals. Shoot me for bringing up basketball related news. I havn't mentioned him once since its ended. The world talked about him enough, I dont need to keep reminding you who is, If you follow basketball youll know.

Someone brought up the fact more Serbs have been drafted than Aussies after that, and that Della Vedaova still hasnt been signed up by the Cavs, all so they could argue with me.

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And did you not comment on this? So, you did mention Dellavedova after the playoffs ended - something that you just denied in your statement above.

Let's not get confused here, it's all plain to see, just go back a page or two in this thread. What happened next, you mentioned Teodosic immediately, then got into how Australia is better than Serbia in basketball and football. All the while you made comments like "Canadians brought up Dellavedova, not me" in reference to me. I didn't mention anything about you being from Australia, but again your insecurities come out to the fore-front.

Maksimilian said:

I never started the measurement of "Serbness". Don't re write history to fit your narrative. I never once mentioned anything about being Serb until Mr Dule (And then Krle) started claiming I wasnt Serb because I supported Australia as well as Serbia. By saying "You vs Us" they were claiming they were Serbs while I was not. I merely pointed out that theyre just as Serb as I am. The fact they cant handle that observation, and both take offense at that statement, shows how insecure they feel about their identity. its not me having a cry about it, im just returning fire.

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Right, and I remember saying to you then that you were blowing things out of proportion and jumping to conclusions too quickly. But again, why do you jump so fast, it's all related to this identity crisis you seem to be suffering, because not to sound like a broken record, but as soon as there is some mention of you vs us or whatever, you snap. From then on your discussion with Dule turned personal with you questioning where he was from, how Serbian he was, etc, etc. It was pathetic, and now you're doing it to Krle, and even trying to take shots at me in the hopes of getting a reaction.

You're not returning fire, because it's not about that, it's about the other bullshit that you spew, mainly starting with Dellavedova and how great he is, and then that turning to Australia and how much better they are than Serbia. As soon as someone (like myself, Dule or Krle) question that what you say you either A) turn it into a personal thing about who's Serbian and how Serbian they are or B) you just duck the conversation, make an excuse about not wanting to waste your time, all the while acting like an idiot. Last time we had a discussion about basketball you went on a tangent trying to make it out as though I had some love-affair with RSF. You even started posting pictures, I mean, it's like I'm talking to a kid or something. Like I said before - to you and everyone else on here - if you're gonna come out and run your mouth, that's fine, but just be prepared to back up what you say because I'll expose you of your bullshit, much like I've exposed many others on here.

I understand emotions get the better of most, but still - the least one can do is keep it real.

Maksimilian said:

Like I said im not going to keep going back and forth with people who have the time and patience to write a combined 50 000 posts together; Ive got a life to live.

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:howler: Oh man, if I had a nickle for every time a forum member said that to me. The most pathetic excuse there is. You're on a football forum and more specifically a Serbian forum where we discuss other sports including basketball. If you come in to discuss things, then you have time. We aren't posting 50,000 times on the same topic, so cut the bullshit. It's not a matter of you having a life (you've proven otherwise by opening threads about Bleiburg and other things on a football forum) it's a matter of not being able to back up the bullshit that you spew. Maybe if you didn't spend your precious time posting off-topic remarks, and posting pictures but instead sticking to the topic, we could have had a proper discussion already.

It's plain to see. Now for you sake and everyone else's, run along - you've already shown us that you're not capable of adding anything productive to the original conversation (Dellavedova/Australia vs. Serbia in basketball).

Maksimilian said:

This life includes watching Australians win medals at both the top level of Basketball and Football. I hope one day Krle and Dule have the opportunity to do the same.

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Are you talking about the Oceania Championships? When else has Australia won a medal at 'top level' in Basketball (or football for that matter)?