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Discussion Starter #1
First, my sincere apology to Tigerheart for contributing to the messing up of his thread about relationships between Muslims and non-Muslims.

We got off on a tangent about laws, discrimination and cultural differences. Members who live in Canada may have noticed a story in the news today that hits bang on those issues.

I'm talking about the ongoing saga of the Khadr family. By way of background, this family has Canadian citizenship the parents are originally from Egypt. The father was a long time friend and confidant to Bin Laden. So much so, that he took his family to Afghanistan to fight against coalition forces on the side of A.Q. He was killed in a firefight, and his 14-year-old son was shot and paralyzed in the same fight.

The older son is a separate and fascinating story, but not really relevant to this thread.

The family is now back in Canada, to seek medical care for the paralyzed son. Many Canadians were upset that this family raised money here for A.Q., ostensibly may have fought against Canadians and our allies in Afghanistan, and can now come back for free medical care. The mother was quoted as saying she will not beg for her rights as a Canadian citizen. She "demands" them.

Today, a doctor who works for a child services organization prompted an investigation which will look into charging this woman as an unfit mother. Afterall, she took her son to fight in Afghanistan, and has publicly stated it would be better for him to die a martyr than become a decadent "drug taking westerner or homosexual".

Under the law here, she may lose her son. Other charges may also be pending.

I'm wondering what Muslims think about this case. Should she lose her son or be charged what she's done?
 

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The kid is only 14 so obviously he should get all the care he can as a Canadian citizen - it's only humane.

As for the family, well as far as I know aiding and abetting terrorist groups is against the law so that seems kinda obvious.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
There's also a wife-beating story unfolding in Saudi Arabia, where a television broadcaster was beaten by her husband. The husband is on the run, and police say he will be charged with attempted murder if found.

So I'd say that definately settles the question of whether it's permitted by culture or religion. "Tolerated" might be a better word.

Andrija PFC,

There's no question the 14 year-old will receive the care he needs. In fact, the investigation into possible improper parenting is part of that care. I'm just wondering if we're going to see protests from the Muslim community here in Canada, (or even from abroad), accusing the government here of being culturally insensitive. To my way of looking at it, that would be hypocritical.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I don't think Flo was serious, (at least I hope not), but I'd be interested in hearing what you think about this case Nero.
 

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Nero said:
You advocate burning a paralyzed 14 year old?
How did he get paralyzed in the first place? :rolleyes:

O.K., care for the kid but still burn the bitch. ;)

Tinto, thumbs up for noticing the sarcasm.
 

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Flo said:
How did he get paralyzed in the first place? :rolleyes:

O.K., care for the kid but still burn the bitch. ;)

Tinto, thumbs up for noticing the sarcasm.
The kid was brought to Afghanistan by his parents, and there's no indication of his willingness to participate in armed conflict of any kind. How many 14 year olds do you know that can understand fully the implications of their actions in such a scenario?

Tinto, what exactly do you want my opinion on?
 

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THe mother is probably dead on.

The kid most likely will become a drug trafficking westerner or a blatant homosexual. It's what happens when you repress terrorism.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Tinto, what exactly do you want my opinion on?
Does she seem an unfit mother to you? Is it appropriate to investigate, and if enough evidence is found, take away her son?

With Flo, I was pretty sure there was sarcasm, with R.E., all bets are off. ;)

Now...time for Depor/Porto.
 

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Well she involved her son who was and is a minor in a war zone, where he subsequently incurred an injury that has paralyzed him for life.

I'd say she's pretty unfit, given those circumstances. As for the second question, because the mother and her son are currently residing in Canada, they are both subject to Canadian laws and if those laws conclude that she is an unfit mother, then the state has it within its power to take custody of the child away from the mother.

All quite straightforward.
 

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PBS series "Frontline" tonight is about this topic.

Apparently someone in the Khadr family claims to be working for the CIA.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Nero,

I wonder if the Muslim community here and abroad will share your opinion? I hope so.

Apparently someone in the Khadr family claims to be working for the CIA.
This is the next oldest son. What a story this guy has, right out of a hollywood movie. CBC broke this story, and it makes for some pretty interesting reading.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/
 

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Tinto said:
I'm wondering what Muslims think about this case. Should she lose her son or be charged what she's done?
First of all, the laws of Islam state that you cannot go to war against someone who is not at war. Nor can you force someone to fight in a war. So I believe that she is an unfit mother and should lose 'custody' of her son.

Secondly, if she does lose her son, then it would probably be ideal to put him in a (decent) Muslim family home where they can raise him to become a decent citizen and a good muslim.
 

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O.K. After reading the link, I now say burn the bitch for sure and burn the son for sure.

Crazy whacks! :rolleyes:
 

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Ahmed Said Khadr's 14-year-old son, Karim, lies in the military hospital in Rawalpindi, shot in the spine in the same battle that killed his father. He is paralysed from the waist down.

Maha would be happy if her children died the same way. "You know we are promised that we go to heaven," she says.

Zaynab says, "I'd love to die like that. I'd love my daughter to die… even if [it is] simple, very simple, naïve," Maha says.

"Yeah it's heaven. It's heaven, you know," Zaynab says.


:depress:

what can you do with people like that? There is no common basis for conversation.
 

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Humbird said:
what can you do with people like that? There is no common basis for conversation.

Actually there is. It is true that if a Muslim dies in a 'Jihad' then he will go straight to heaven.

However we have to define 'Jihad'. We have to understand that 'Jihad' means holy war. To the mother, she feels that her son is fighting a holy war...but is he really(?).

The way to reason with these people is to get them to see that the war they are fighting isn't a holy one and therefore cannot be defined as a 'Jihad'. Therefore, no heaven.

There are many people who are walking around calling themselves 'Muslims' and are looking to get in to a 'Jihad' are only doing it because they think that they can get an easy route to heaven without actually practising Islam properly (eg praying, fasting etc). Of course I'm not saying all the Muslims involved in war are doing that, but some certainly are.
 
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