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No offence to all the true Juve fans but you and us are being misled. Get real guys Juve cannot lose to Perugia. Andd Canvarro's goal was good.......

Once again no offenc eto great guys like AGE Glen and co. but i just wanna share what i think.

Now i don't mean to cast any shodows on Lazio's win. It was thoroughly deserved but i am surprised no one else has noticed this.

Before i post once again let me say i think Lazio deserve the scudetto from back to front.....i can almost say FORZA L....O Congrats on a deserved win...BUTT!!!!!!!!!!

Did you actually win the scudetto? I will post this at the Juve forum and also at the INTER forum and Serie A forum so be sure to check around and see what the other fans think.

1> Referees obviously favour Juve.
Why? Intimidation? Gang conections? Fear? Psychological effect of the mighty black and white?

2> Juve somehow have benefited from "mistakes" of refs for years. Why? Why only Juve?

3> On SUnday if Lazio had not won the Scudetto what would have happened?
Full scale investigations?
Scrutinizing of Mr. Moggi?
Every questioning eye in football turned to Juve?

4> What happened? Lazio won the scudetto....hmmmmmmm.........

5> What has happened now.....no one is even bothered about Canavarro's goal except Parma fans. Interesting......

Sure Lazio deserved to win the scudetto but the bottom line is that they were cheated but miraculously still win the scudetto.


he himself admits it was a very very strange match....his words exactly. I agree a very very strange match.

Juve Players
Van Der Saar didn't try to save Calori's shot did he? Conte could have headed the ball anywhere. he headed it right down back int ohis own defencive box....Conte doesn't make these kind of mistakes. That is why he is captain of Juve. Not one shred of disappointment on the faces of teh players. Remember when Lazio lost the title? Tears a plenty. NOT ONE SINGLE TEAR!!!!!!!!! No Juve player cried. Not one single bit of emotion. They all simply put on sour faces and walked off the field.

No emotional out bursts nothing. Juve were forced to take the field in poor conditions and lost to a goal scored seemingly because of condidtions.

Then Moggi has some horrible and acid things to say in the media....but this is said a day or two after. When do you make acid and irrational comments people? You make them because they are reactions not when you have had days to think them over........Friends...his comments were very likely simply orchestrated. Why?

To give the desired effect. WHat is expected? VENOM....so Moggi gives venom. But not as a reaction but days after in a well organized and planeed statement. Yet his words are purposely strong and offencive. ITS A SHAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is my theory guys Moggi influences the scudetto but somehow things do not work out well at Verona. This will probably hurt Prandelli's career for life. Anyhow he is now desperate and somehow influences De Sanctis but De Sanctis does it in a way too obvious way. Suddenly all eyes are turned to Juventus.......too much attention Moggi risks being exposed for the extortionist he probably is he is forced tto let this scudetto pass.

Friends Lazio deserves this scudetto...BUTT!!!!!!!!! the last game of teh season IMHO opinion was a sham.

What has happened......attention has turned away from Moggi........no one cares anymore except Parma and we all know that the real big guns are not interested in what teams outside Milan and Torno have to say.

Moggi is a master of deception and has lost this batttle simply so he can continue winning the war.

Here is a ridiculously long article that helps support my points.....Moggi must be stopped he is making idiots of us all.

Moggi Moggi VAFFANCULO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is the Italian game corrupt? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Juve's top official branded by critics General manager Luciano Moggi under fire in latest scandal, reports Simon Evans Sunday May 14, 2000 The stench enveloping Italian football in the wake of Juventus's controversial victory over Parma has prompted an investigation into events before and after the game by Turin's public magistrate. Since Fabio Cannavaro's last-minute header for Parma was inexplicably disallowed by referee Massimo De Santis, giving Juve a 1-0 win last Sunday, Italy has been swept by an extraordinary tidal wave of anti-Juve sentiment. There have been death threats against the referee's family, violent street protests in Rome and the president of the Italian FA has said he may look to bring in foreign match officials next season. No one has made an outright claim that Juve have broken any law, but it has been a close-run thing. And one of their top men, general manager Luciano Moggi, is the target for vitriolic criticism because of the power he allegedly wields over Italian football. More of him later. Juve should claim their 26th Serie A title in today's last round with a win at Perugia but if there is an ounce of sense left in Italian football their celebrations will be muted. The feelings are strongest in Rome, where Lazio are left two points behind the Turin club thanks to referee De Santis's decision. Midweek street protests are forecast to continue today with two major events - the Giro d'Italia cycle race and the Italian Open tennis finals - braced for violence. Lazio are hosting Reggina just a few hundred yards from the Foro Italico tennis complex. One of the leaders of Lazio's hard-line 'ultras' fans, Fabio Piscitelli, said today's demonstrations would include a 'funeral' of Italian soccer, with a real coffin in Rome's Piazzale Flaminio. Fans will then enter the stadium for Lazio's match 15 minutes late. Lazio president Sergio Cragnotti claimed: 'This championship is losing credibility. I can't invest millions in this club and then find we are in this unclear situation.' Had the goal stood, and the game ended in a 1-1 draw, Lazio and Juve would have gone into today's games level on points and with a title play-off almost certain (goal difference is not a factor in Serie A ). 'Sorry, but this is a scandal' was the front-page headline in Rome's Corriere dello Sport the day after the match, probably the mildest comment on its pages this week. Within half an hour of the game ending De Santis had explained his decision to annul Cannavaro's goal to a reporter. He claimed to have blown the whistle before the Parma defender headed the ball goalwards, having spotted some pushing as Marcio Amoroso's corner came over. When Cannavaro himself appeared in front of the press, his reaction was the same as in the moments after the whistle blew - he was just laughing. Television replays clearly showed he had whistled after Cannavaro connected with the ball - and that there was no foul to be seen. From early Sunday evening to past midnight on Monday there are shows that contain nothing other than action replays of controversial incidents, scrutinised by a panel of journalists. Not one of the judges in these self-styled 'courts of calcio' was able to find a reason why the goal was disallowed. It is not the first time Juventus are in sight of a title that few but their own fans feel they deserve. In Florence they still rage over the 1982 season when Fiorentina were pipped to the title by Juve on the final day thanks to dubious refereeing which favoured Juve and punished Fiorentina. More recently, during what Italians call 'the season of poison' two years ago, Juve were neck and neck with Inter. Juve won 1-0 at Empoli, who were denied an equaliser when the ball clearly crossed the line. A week later Juve beat Inter 1-0 at the Delle Alpi but Inter had a clear penalty turned down, leaving their president, Massimo Moratti, claiming Juventus have a psychological grip over referees. 'Referees don't do this on purpose; it's a habit. They are afraid of hurting Juventus. It is the rule not the exception,' said Moratti at the time. The

22,168 Posts
Tazz; Personally I think You're so incredibly paranoid that I'm almost scared on Your behalf :).
For Your information the matters concerning Juve-Parma IS currently under investigation.
FIGC has started this process in co-operation with the Turin-magistrate mentioned in the article.
You're certainly right that the mediastorm has blown over, but in my opinion that should also give a bad taste in the mouths of those calling names at Juve and Moggi. "credibility's gone"- "match fixed" but now suddenly there's nothing wrong ? Whingers!

The only thing that actually infuriates me about Your post is that You say the Juventus players were in on losing at Perugia. Calori scored a goal out of nothing, and it was the only time they had a shot inside the posts that day. Inzaghi missed chances just like he has the last many weeks, but You could see how much Juve wanted to score by the sheer pace of the game. Every play was rushed and just the expressions of their faces says it all.
Unfortunately it was impossible to create anything on that field, so we all had to accept a thorougly unlucky defeat to a team that showed their dignity and serie A's credibility by defending stoutly.

I totally disagree with all of Your assumptions.


I totally don't understand why you're saying
this stuff. ok, you said juve corrupt so
please give me some proofs instead of talking
about cannavaro's goal again and again, some
real evidence! Like u saw Moggi paying the
refs or something like that!! until you did
that or real proofs were shown to public,
please cut it out!

You're exactly RIGHT that the refs only favour juve, please tell me which team do u
support and I'll tell u how the refs have
favoured your team as well! because of the
Parma incident, people accused juve as a team
which cheat to win! I completely don't understand that, juve are a great team, there
is no doubt about that! they won because they
are simply better than others! there maybe
some calls from the refs which favoured juve
but every teams got that and you are so funny
to say that the refs ONLY favour juve! hah!

so you're saying juve went into the Perugia
game to lost, once again, it's anything but
true, it's so crazy for u to have said that since do u know how much juve have lost when they lost the title? I'm not exactly sure but it's a lot so please think before you say stuff!

and also your comment on Moggi, I think he
said the right stuff since people think that
he's a cheat and he control the refs and all
that, then why would juve lost the game at all? with moggi, juve may never lose and not
in the last game of the season! all those
talks of the man himself were just statement
from lazio director or players which have no
proofs at all to support they said, those are

compare to the losing attitude of juve, lazio
is so damn worst, they cannot accept to lose
for example, after the Parma game, they started to cry out loud that juve steal titles from other teams! at that time, they
haven't even lost the title yet, why don't they shut up and just play the game! I think
they said all those stuff to the press was
to affect juve players psychologically, oh
man, that's is so low! anyway, after juve lost the title, they even said lazio deserved the title which they don't! this is
what a great team do, when they lost they accept the fact unlike other team which cried out loud and complain this and that!

ok, that's all I want to say about your topic
and I think you said some pretty funny stuff
and you are making me laugh!


10,590 Posts
well......o.k. guys....

But you guys need to be honest with yourselves.

And Glen you guys know that there will be less ferver in searching for corruption now that its all over....

C'mon bro. be honest. If one team in serie A were corrupt what team do you think it is.

By the way guys i support INTER.......

[email protected] [email protected]

27,201 Posts
Holy Crap!! Tazz, you take this way too seriously. I don't think Einstein gave his theories as much thought as you do yours. Lay off the reefer and get some sleep. Your paranoia is freaking me out!

26,710 Posts
Actually I see some sense in Tazz's delirium :)

Look,we cant prove anything but this makes a lot of sense.BUT there is a way of confirmation:

IF Juve signs Nesta in the summer I'm 1000% sure it was fixed.If not (probably) we'll never learn.

Any given Sunday,you either win or loose.That's FOOTBALL...

881 Posts
I posted my views which were similar to Tazz but more obvious. As a fan I know my team better than anyone. Juve were in it to lose. If you couldnt tell that look of giving in on the players faces then my fellow Juve fans u obviously dont know your team that well. How comes DP played well against Parma then didnt even make an effort to play well against Periuga? I mean that was the most important match in the campaign and the players hardly played anything like themselves. I hope this isnt true but its the only explanation for such bizzare occurances over that last 2 weeks.

17,063 Posts
You have good points there Tazz, i must admit. All your theories are possible, but you would have to stop and think to that what you are saying is freaky, maybe even scary. So let me get this straight. You are saying that Moggi gave up the scudetto because if juve won he would have had to much heat on him because he supposedly already fixed the scudetto before the season. Therefore now, he can continue to fix the scudetto in the years to come because no one will expect him to have cheated because Lazio won it this year. I see your point, not bad. How did you think of this, TV shows can't think of great stories lines like this. You are in the wrong business. But nevertheless, you have good points and it the scudetto was decided on a freakish sunday which saw everything happen.


4,816 Posts
Well, ilTAZZ has several good points even though perhaps he sounds a trifle paranoid. But, the scenario he’s painted is possible, although, on the contrary the opposite is also equally possible. Realistically speaking, something in between might be the case. But we may never know, so…(Personally ilTAZZ, I think the weather also played a significant part ;) )
Perhaps we just need to keep the facts in mind: The statement about Real, Barca dominating Primera, Bayern dominating Bundesliga, Ajax dominating the Dutch league, yet these teams are not accused of foul play , unlike Juve – it’s worth a thought, at any rate. Also, the fact that Lazio players were in tears after they lost the scudetto last season, while Juve players seemed less upset. That is the fact – it’s worth a thought. Whether one wants to form the conclusion that Lazio players are whiners, or that Juve players don’t really feel they deserve the scudetto, it really depends on one’s own perceptions. Opinions vary from one extreme to the other, but facts remain. The danger comes when one tries to distort the facts.
Well, let’s just look ahead to next season – hopefully an even more exciting season! :)

Forza Lazio
Serie A Champions 1999/2000

22,168 Posts
Nedved; I think the Juventus players were really devastated about this and that's one of the reasons why there has been almost no comments by Juve players to the press since the Perugia game.
The reson they didn't cry or seemed as agitated as the Lazio players a year before could be, that most of them has won it before and know they can do it again.
Maybe that's the reason why players like Zambrotta and Kovacevic were infact crying because they're some of the few people in this squad who haven't won aything before.

I was not saying that Tazz scenario wasn't well thought out, but it's just simply too unrealistic, and many of the arguments just doesn't hold up.


6,790 Posts
Nice try ilTaZZ. You're points are good, but invalid. Zidane spoke on the manner today. He called it his worst nightmare.

From Reuters:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>BOURG SAINT-MAURICE, France, May 18 (Reuters)(DS) - Juventus
playmaker Zinedine Zidane said on Thursday losing the Italian
title last weekend was the worst memory of his career.
"My morale is getting better now but it still hurts my
feelings when I think about this match," Zidane said at a French
national team training camp, recalling the 1-0 defeat at Perugia
which cost Juventus the title.
"When I go to bed at night sad images come into my mind.
"This was the worst moment of my career and I'm trying not to
think to much about it."
Juventus entered the last round with a two-point lead over
second-placed Lazio but the Rome team beat Reggina 3-0 while
Juventus lost at Perugia in a game marred by rain.
The match was stopped at the interval for nearly an hour and
a half but referee Pierluigi Colina decided the pitch was
"I'd never played on a pitch like that," Zidane said. "We
were not keen to come back and play but the Perugia players
insisted and the referee decided we had to finish the match.
"But what I hurts me most is the way it all happened. We had
led the championship from the start of the season and we lost
the lot at the last minute."
Zidane said the defeat was even worse than when they lost
the 1998 European Cup final against Real Madrid.
"That was just one game and anything can happen in one game.
But there the whole season disappeared in a few minutes," he
Zidane said Juventus were physically exhausted at the
end of the season and they should not have lost games at Verona
and Perugia.
"I tell myself it's only football and sport but the
disappointment is no less," he said.

4,816 Posts
Yup Glen, as I said, it really depends on how you interpret it. And your interpretation makes sense to me. Especially the crying part ;)
Yup. Juve can always do it again, there's always next season. And perhaps that comment by Zizou is because he's no longer with Juve next season?
So now how does Vieri feel, I wonder? Especially when Lazio won the double last night? In contrast to what Simeone feels! But I saw that we at Lazio still have the utmost respect for him...last night our players were somewhat careful in handling Vieri 'coz we all know too well that should enything happen to him, it's Italy that'll suffer in Euro 2000.
But the real winner of this season must be Macini, I say. Scudetto with Sampdoria and Lazio...at the end of his career...really a legend.

Forza Lazio
Serie A Champions, Coppa Italia Winners 1999/2000
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