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Discussion Starter #1
I think he is a great player, but it seemed that Brazil does not need him because Brazil is loaned with players liked him. Am I right?

What does Brazilians or Brazil fans think of him?

I also read some good praise on Vagner Love. frankly, I knew nothing about him.
 

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What to say about Nilmar
Lots of speed and agility
Promising but a disappointing player in Lyon
irregular, not making it into starting eleven
some opportunist goals but not really any good goalscoring
did some promising games for NT
and was quite highly rated as promess but now he is not close to NT


Vagner is quite highly rated in Brazil
could come into question as a third option behind Ronaldo and Adriano
Here we have a typical goalpoacher and opportunist goalscorer
speedy,great shot and dribbling
selfish and heading is not his best side due to his small stature
Highly critisized for being too selfish
 

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I only saw Nilmar a few times on Globo Internacional, but then again, his career with Inter-RS was truncated. In his final season with Inter, I seem to remember he was out a lot with injuries, then he and Daniel Carvalho missed the last 5-6 games of the Brasileirao to play for the Brasil in the U-20 WC. This absence cost Inter a spot in the Libertadores of the following year. Then Nilmar went to France and Carvalho to the Ukraine somewhere.

The path of Nilmar's career reminds me of another promising Inter young player, Fabio Rochembeck. A few impressive performances as an 18 year old, a call up to the U-20 - i think he eventually made it the the full international side to play for Brasil in a Copa America where he actually starteda few games - perhaps his agent bribed the manager! - then Louis van Gaal took him to Barcelona. (I saw FR's locker in the vestuario when I took the tour of the Nou Camp.) Played a few games with Barca as a sub and even started a few CL games. Van Gaal left, Reikard (sp) game in and FR was shipped off to Sporting Lisbon. I believe he is establishing himself in Portugal. Still under contract to Barca. Don't know what their plans are for him.

Point is: Nilmar and FR are yet two more examples of young Brasilian players leaving much too early, go to Europe, have the talent but get kinda lost in the shuffle - managerial changes etc - and start floundering or at least do not show the form they had in Brasil. They both really needed to stay in Brasil (With Inter :D ) another year or two. But of course the players are not at fault but the agents who went for the money. had these players stayed a bit longer in Brasil - let's say Inter did go to the Libertadores the following year and went at least to the 1/4 finals, their value would have increased dramatically. But blinded by their greed to make the big bucks quick, the agents end up shooting themselves in the foot, but this is another story.

If Robinho had gone straight to Europe at a cut-rate price the next season after Santos went to the Libertadores finalhe might have been another "Whatever happened to?" story. Instead he stayed, led Santos to a championship and got (legitimately) picked by Parreira for the Seleção.
 

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NILMAR is good player but he is not in the starting line up for lyon so it is impossible to call just a player to the NT, he is 22 y old

VAGNER LOVE he is talented and i think he is better than nilmar, but i don't know why he went to play in russia.. he is 21 y old
playing just weak leagues will not improve such kind of a player :depress:
 

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Hi Rivaldo10,

is Love still playing in Russia? I am sure that Corinthians was trying to bring him back and the he was going crazy with the Russian winter.
 

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RIVALDO10 said:
VAGNER LOVE he is talented and i think he is better than nilmar, but i don't know why he went to play in russia.. he is 21 y old
playing just weak leagues will not improve such kind of a player :depress:
Excuse me, but right now, Russian league is far from weak. It's at least on par with Portuguese or Holland ones, where several other Brazilian players play.
 

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OAnimal said:
Excuse me, but right now, Russian league is far from weak. It's at least on par with Portuguese or Holland ones, where several other Brazilian players play.
It's certainly not on par with the Dutch league, at least we have 2 teams remaning in Europe. 1 in the Champions League (PSV) and 1 in the UEFA Cup (AZ).
 

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Barcawinner said:
It's certainly not on par with the Dutch league, at least we have 2 teams remaning in Europe. 1 in the Champions League (PSV) and 1 in the UEFA Cup (AZ).
Using this criteria, Dutch league is superior even to the Spanish one. :wallbang:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I saw more money going into the Russian league than before. The Russian clubs are not yet spending money around liked liked the Corinthians. They did make a few big purchases that are usually associated with Russian soccer. They also sign Cavenaghi. They did not sign him for a bargin fee. Liked V.Love, he could have been playing in Spain or France.

I do not think the Russian league is on par with Portugal or Holland, but if more money is pumped into the league, their standard can be rise dramatically in the next few years. In a year or two, I can see the big jump in standard. However, I dont see them making good run in Europe. Their off-season is the same time as the critical stages of CL and UEFA Cup. They often fielded incompleted teams in January.
 

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galactico said:
However, I dont see them making good run in Europe.
Let me remind you that CSKA Moscow is now in the quarter-finals of UEFA Cup and they missed the last 16 of Champions League only because of bad luck (or more precisely, two missed penalties from Vagner Love, only one goal from those would take them through). And they were not even champions of Russia last year...
 

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eugene said:
I only saw Nilmar a few times on Globo Internacional, but then again, his career with Inter-RS was truncated. In his final season with Inter, I seem to remember he was out a lot with injuries, then he and Daniel Carvalho missed the last 5-6 games of the Brasileirao to play for the Brasil in the U-20 WC. This absence cost Inter a spot in the Libertadores of the following year. Then Nilmar went to France and Carvalho to the Ukraine somewhere.

The path of Nilmar's career reminds me of another promising Inter young player, Fabio Rochembeck. A few impressive performances as an 18 year old, a call up to the U-20 - i think he eventually made it the the full international side to play for Brasil in a Copa America where he actually starteda few games - perhaps his agent bribed the manager! - then Louis van Gaal took him to Barcelona. (I saw FR's locker in the vestuario when I took the tour of the Nou Camp.) Played a few games with Barca as a sub and even started a few CL games. Van Gaal left, Reikard (sp) game in and FR was shipped off to Sporting Lisbon. I believe he is establishing himself in Portugal. Still under contract to Barca. Don't know what their plans are for him.

Point is: Nilmar and FR are yet two more examples of young Brasilian players leaving much too early, go to Europe, have the talent but get kinda lost in the shuffle - managerial changes etc - and start floundering or at least do not show the form they had in Brasil. They both really needed to stay in Brasil (With Inter :D ) another year or two. But of course the players are not at fault but the agents who went for the money. had these players stayed a bit longer in Brasil - let's say Inter did go to the Libertadores the following year and went at least to the 1/4 finals, their value would have increased dramatically. But blinded by their greed to make the big bucks quick, the agents end up shooting themselves in the foot, but this is another story.

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I have seen him play many times in Beira Rio,even met him once,Inter hasn't been the same since Nilmar and Carvalho left,there was even a protest for the sale of Nilmar,but this gave a chance for players like Sobis ,Fernadao and Diego to rise.
Nilmar is an exceptional player, like Eugene said leaving too early and unprepared can cost him his career,same with Daniel.Lots of players come back home after a quick trip to Europe,just hope they will come back one day.
 

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Both Nilmar and Vagner are 21 years old
Unfortunately I guess CSKA will miss playing in CL next year
Hopefully Vagner will learn more about team play in Russia
Daniel Carvalho and Dudu Cearense are two other very good and maybe even better prospects for selecao in CSKA
 

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eugene said:
.

The path of Nilmar's career reminds me of another promising Inter young player, Fabio Rochembeck. A few impressive performances as an 18 year old, a call up to the U-20 - i think he eventually made it the the full international side to play for Brasil in a Copa America where he actually starteda few games - perhaps his agent bribed the manager! - then Louis .
are you serious? are you talking about f rochemback? youve haven't seen much of him haven't you? is one of the most technically gifted brazilian defender out there. his skills surpassed guys like emerson.
 

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in fact i never saw FR play. I only know of him through Zero Hora, Correio do Povo etc. But i was not commenting on his talent. I was commenting on the fact that he transferred to Barcelona as an 18 year with only one season with Inter, a season in which he only really came into the team half-way through the season. I think in the long run this hurt his career. Another year or two with Inter would not have killed him.

Maybe there is a Barca supporter here who can comment in greater detail on FR days in the Nou Camp. He was getting eased into the team with Barcelona. I am sure he started some Champions League games for them. But then Van Gaal was fired, a new manager brought in who shipped FR off to Sporting Lisbon. No disrespect to SL, but in my mind going from Barcelona to Portugal is a demotion.

If he is better than Emerson as you say, and he had made it with Barca, then it would have been FR who scored the off-side goal vs. Uruguay on Weds instead of Emerson! :howler:
 

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OAnimal said:
Excuse me, but right now, Russian league is far from weak. It's at least on par with Portuguese or Holland ones, where several other Brazilian players play.
well i have nothing against russian league, and i m one of CSKA moskova fans.. they r really playing interesting and great football..
but i think going from brazilian league to the russian league is some step down because no scouts or fans can watch u.. but going to big leagues with a lot of fans and watchers will bring eyes on u even if u play in a small team right there..
u can compare what happened to BAPTISTA, R.OLIVEIRA, and EDU with JADSON, VAGNER LOVE, KLEBER, CARVALHO and others...........
 

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Two very good players who have talent enough to one day become NT regulars, it's up to them to demonstrate their value. We do have a large amount of talented players available, but Nilmar and Vagner Love's development definitely needs to be followed closely by the NT manager.
 

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RIVALDO10 said:
well i have nothing against russian league, and i m one of CSKA moskova fans.. they r really playing interesting and great football..
but i think going from brazilian league to the russian league is some step down because no scouts or fans can watch u.. but going to big leagues with a lot of fans and watchers will bring eyes on u even if u play in a small team right there..
u can compare what happened to BAPTISTA, R.OLIVEIRA, and EDU with JADSON, VAGNER LOVE, KLEBER, CARVALHO and others...........
You made a good point and I basically agree, but I also think that Russian league will receive more attention and recognition from fans (it already receives quite a lot attention from scouts, trust me), specially if they continue to improve as they have done in the last few years.
 

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Anyone recognizes this fellow? :D
 

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Vagner Love should definetlly be in the Brazil NT, and so should Carvalho. They will propablly be selected when we win the UEFA CUP... we're the only good team left - and the only Chapions League team. Maybe Newcastle will cause us some propblems, but i dont see how we wouldn't be able to pass Austria/Parma.

If not the russian league is already better than the Dutch and Portguese it certinlly will be in a year or two. ALready the first year we begin to buy good foreign players we manage to come as far as the UEFA CUP semis, if not the Final.
 
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