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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Mind games seem to be taking more and more of a role in modern day football. Those that follow the English Premiership closely will have witnessed various examples of this come the latter stages of a season. Around about this time of the year the mangers/coaches of the title cotenders will throw in a couple of 'queries' in an attempt to unsettle their main opponent. Keen users of this policy include the likes of Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger. One particular recepient of Sir Alex's wrath crumbled on national TV as his side surrendered a 15+ point lead at the top and ultimately lost out to Man U. No prizes for guessing who...

Whatever we may think of mind games, one thing is for sure and that is it's a part of football. Like the EPL, the Turkish Super Lig is not alien to this form of gamesmanship. Over the years, club members have done their utmost to ensure that they create a benficial environment for their team in the quest for the title. However, unlike the EPL the Turkish Super Lig has never been restricted to a psychological war between the managers. The TFF, MHK (refereeing comittee), media are all sucked in. Over the years we have seen ample examples of the team with the greatest lobby winning the league.

What are your views on the mind games in football? Do you think they go hand-in-hand with the championship race? Also, put down a few examples in various leagues that you follow and the outcome of them...
 

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Well the latest "war" between managers was recently between Luce and Daum.....but Daum never sunk to Luce's level!

Luce accused Daum for having no honour because of the replayed game against Rize....where the rules clearly say that we are right...:rolleyes:

He also said that Daum should be ashamed and how he would be able to watch the other coahes in the eyes after that game....:D

Not to mention his trashtalking about Turkish football saying it is run the same way as Caucescus Romania....which is kind of a very big insult to teh Turkish football community.

What i mean is that Luce tried to start mind games but Daum didnt fall into the trick....he kept his silence which apparently helped....we are now in pole position!;)

Luce's planto mess up the league didnt work because nobody took him seriously and im very pleased they didnt!
 

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Yeah Luce is a demon planning to mess up the Turkish league :D

Cenk come on, you're better than that ;)
He spoke freely, and yes our league IS corrupt and he simply said this would hinder turkish football-which he is right about.
We all know it's corrupt, yet we chose to remain quiet when the corruption goes our way. Our prime-minister made statements like that when fener received some 'awkward' calls at the beginning of the season, our deputy prime minister clearly stated that someone was trying to stop Besiktas, our sportswriters constantly write about such corruption everyday-yet Luce is bad for stating the obvious???

Give me a break dude. Go after the prime minister, the deputy primeminister, the sportswriters and all the sports TV personalities for 'insulting turkish football' before you attack Luce, since they've all alluded to corruption-in one way or another.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Cem Papila has been assigned to the Fenerbahce v Konya match... Could all the recent hype and questions have anything to do with this? ;)
 

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Jemster said:
Cem Papila has been assigned to the Fenerbahce v Konya match... Could all the recent hype and questions have anything to do with this? ;)
There's not much left for Papila to do, Konya's two most significant players are already suspended.
 

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D-lite said:
There's not much left for Papila to do, Konya's two most significant players are already suspended.
Does this mean that they wont be able to bash us in SSS?:D
 

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Discussion Starter #8
D-lite said:
No it means they've been stripped of all weapons and are being sent in for a massacre ;)
"Sen aglama, danyanamam...." ;)

Let me remind you, that those weapons you refer to played at the game IN KONYA where they were subjected to a 2-4 defeat at the hands of THE CURRENT LEADERS...
 

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D-lite said:
No it means they've been stripped of all weapons and are being sent in for a massacre ;)
Poor Konyaspor....i still dont get how we managed to beat them in Konya with 4-2. To that you can add that Zafer Biryol & Co was playing.....shocking....:eek: :eek:

Konyaspor were clearly the favourites to win in Istanbul with players like Zafer & Co......but without Zafer their dream of trashing Fener has faded away.

And Konya had never been more motivated to win since they are in.........12th place :D. According to Yilmaz....this was an extremely important game for them because they usually beat Fenerbahce and were expected to get 3 easy points in Istanbul.

1. Fenerbahce 24 16 6 2 55 - 27 54
2. Besiktas 24 15 6 3 48 - 26 51
3. Trabzonspor 24 14 5 5 39 - 27 47
4. Denizlispor 24 13 3 8 38 - 27 42
5. Galatasaray 24 11 8 5 38 - 30 41
6. Gaziantepspor 24 12 3 9 37 - 36 39
7. Diyarbakirspor 24 10 7 7 36 - 30 37
8. Malatyaspor 24 8 9 7 31 - 24 33
9. Samsunspor 24 9 6 9 34 - 35 33
10. G.Birligi 24 9 4 11 40 - 34 31
11. Ankaragucu 24 8 6 10 33 - 38 30
12. Konyaspor 24 6 11 7 35 - 37 29
13. Rizespor 24 8 3 13 25 - 41 27
14. Istanbulspor 24 7 5 12 33 - 35 26
15. Sebatspor 24 5 8 11 28 - 38 23
-------------------------------------------------------
16. Elazigspor 24 5 6 13 30 - 53 21
17. Bursaspor 24 3 9 12 18 - 30 18
18. Adanaspor 24 3 3 18 23 - 53 12




:howler:
 

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And fener would never lose to Konyaspor right?
I've seen you lose to worse teams so your argument holds no grounds, each match is different ;)

Apparently they were enough of a threat to have their two attackers suspended.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Let's go back to the mind games...

Latest ones I've seen:

Sinan Engin stating, "Besiktas are not a lucky as Fenerbahce. Fenerbahce might be the leaders but they have been very lucky in getting there..."

IMO, that's a pretty bad attempt even for this lovable 'character'. This form of mudslinging has been ignored by the opponents thus far, so it's time for a strategy rethink...

Christoph Daum was at a press conference in a restaurant opening. At the end of the conference, two waiters brought over a big cake with the words, "Sampiyon Fenerbahce" on the top. When handed the knife to cut it, Daum refused and said it's far to early for this kind of thing and kindly asked the waiters to put it in a freezer for a further 2 months. Message given, "we're not champions yet, so no need for celebrations. However, we will be, so there is a time and a place for everything" ;). My personal hunch is that this cake saga was a set up by the Genius himself ;)
 

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Tolga said:
If Konyaspor doesn't find it necessary to complain about Zafer and Altan's suspensions, then why is Besiktas all over the issue? :rollani:
I have said it before and im saying it again....all this trashtalking from Besiktas has made them lose their focus on the league. They are more interested what happens in Fenerbahce's games and in Fenerbahce's opponents the next upcoming games than their own league games.

I once said that Besiktas would still win the league if they got over samsun game as soon as possible. But we have all witnessed how they week after week are dropping points. Maybe it's their opponents playing better maybe it's not, but somehow i believe that their constant mudthrowing is hurting them a lot and they havent still realized it!
 

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D-lite said:
And fener would never lose to Konyaspor right?
I've seen you lose to worse teams so your argument holds no grounds, each match is different ;)

Apparently they were enough of a threat to have their two attackers suspended.
Then you should be prepared to only have your PAF players available when you play against us.....;):D
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Cengo said:
I have said it before and im saying it again....all this trashtalking from Besiktas has made them lose their focus on the league. They are more interested what happens in Fenerbahce's games and in Fenerbahce's opponents the next upcoming games than their own league games.

I once said that Besiktas would still win the league if they got over samsun game as soon as possible. But we have all witnessed how they week after week are dropping points. Maybe it's their opponents playing better maybe it's not, but somehow i believe that their constant mudthrowing is hurting them a lot and they havent still realized it!
The thing is though Cengo, unfortunately this is a tried and tested method in Turkiye that has amazingly worked for years!! Bringing certain things to media attention and creating hype always seems to work.. For examples, you need not look further than the hype surrounding Altan and Zafer's suspensions and the 'sudden' appointment of Cem Papila for the game...!? ;)

For weeks, BJK have moaned about Papila and questioned why he wasn't given to any other match. Conveniently, he's given to a game where speculation is rife about the suspension of the aformentioned players. It's almost as if those players were never ever booked in their lives, let alone the fact they were on 3 yellow cards last week, and that the ref sent them off directly (not to mention the dodgy penalty Konya got for their equalizer!?). To be honest I'd hate to be Papila right now, how can he ever 'win' this Saturday?
 

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Jemster said:
The thing is though Cengo, unfortunately this is a tried and tested method in Turkiye that has amazingly worked for years!! Bringing certain things to media attention and creating hype always seems to work.. For examples, you need not look further than the hype surrounding Altan and Zafer's suspensions and the 'sudden' appointment of Cem Papila for the game...!? ;)

For weeks, BJK have moaned about Papila and questioned why he wasn't given to any other match. Conveniently, he's given to a game where speculation is rife about the suspension of the aformentioned players. It's almost as if those players were never ever booked in their lives, let alone the fact they were on 3 yellow cards last week, and that the ref sent them off directly (not to mention the dodgy penalty Konya got for their equalizer!?). To be honest I'd hate to be Papila right now, how can he ever 'win' this Saturday?
I know bro and i think it's just sad that Besiktas fans woke up first when they didnt like the decisions of the TFF, MHK.and refs. It was all ok until Samsun game.

I mean for years we have complained about TFF, MHK ason.....but this was never an issue for Besiktas because they were on their verge of winning the championship in their 100th anniversary. They had a team who had only lost one game in 1.5 seasons, so how in earth could there be corruption in the Turkish league...? :D

But when this team lost their 2nd game in 1.5 seasons hell breaks lose....because according to them a team who hasnt lost in 1.5 seasons cant lose a 2nd time....:D

Well to be honest im fed up with the whining and crying......people act like it's the first time in their life they have been subjected to injustice......well welcome to the real world!:D
 

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Discussion Starter #17
...What is this injustice BJK feel bro? They keep talking of the Samsun game like some broken record. However, ALL FIVE of those red cards were justified by even one of their board members..... If you wanna talk of other matches since, I can confirm the NON SHOWING of red cards to the likes of Ronaldo (Rize cup game), Yasin (Bursa game).. Hell, I can even give examples of fabricated penalties for clear DIVES (Pancu against Istabulspor)... So what is everyone talking about?..

However, if we look at form, that tells us another story. Fener and BJK have played 10 official games apiece in 2004. Fener have won 9 drawn 1 whilst BJK have lost 5, drawn 3 and only won 2!? Like I've said all along, some soul searching needs to be done.

P.S. Did you know that Marcio Nobre has scored more goals in league games than the WHOLE of BJK? (7/6)
 

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I like the monologue going on between you two. As usual one says one thing, the other confirms, and you agree with each other, making your viewpoints seem like they're a consensus. Meanwhile it doesn't take a genius to figure out how biased you are ;)

We've discussed these issues on a million threads. Cenk is the one constantly complaining about Besiktas 'crying' (as if we're in kindergarten), but he keeps on bringing up Lucescu and attacks Besiktas!

THe Papila show was a historic moment which shifted the balance of everything on the team. The cards might have been justified (3 out of 5) however his attitude an dthe tension he brought top the game WASN'T. THAT is the problem I'm having with the Papila show, and for christ's sake Jem you keep on repeating the same thing :eek:

We've discussed this already, I'm sick and tired of having to explain it. Go read my comments from back then, if you don't agree thats' fine, but by constantly talking about the same issue you're forcing me to repeat myself.

It's not hard to understand bro:

The referee should've had more control over the game. He didn't even call the fouls committed against Besiktas, yet he immediately carded our players for cimmitting similar fouls. Our players felt as if the referee was 'against' them. The referee was unsuccessful in conveying a simple message to them: "i am here to be objective, i am not against you and i will call what i see. I am not biased'. Instead, his calls prior to the cards were extremely agitating. THis is a basic notion jem-it is not that hard to understand. THe referee that day was totally unjust,. causing a negative reaction in our playeers. And then what happened-happened.
Does this mean Besiktas is not self reflecting? Of course not, OUr players have also admitted that DESPITE the calls and the ref's being against them, they shold've kept their composure. These ARE issues that are discussed, yet jem every simgle time you mjake it seem as if Besiktas is putting the sole blame on the ref's and is not doing and 'soul searching'. Give me a break!
Go read the news articles about Besiktas as well as interviews with our players and you'lll see what the community is discussing. As it currently stands, you're rushing to conclusions while extremely lacking knowledge about what Besiktas players and fans truely think.
Stop getting your news from antu would be my suggestion ;)

Meanwhile, I think Tuncay should've received atleast ONE card by now, he keeps on sliding into people and committing fouls which I'm sure he would've been red carded for, had he been on Besiktas.

As for the rest of you two's monologue (I won't even call it a dialogue), it's too much for me to dela with at the moment and I have stuff to do. Good luck in your campaign against Besiktas and your tele-evangelical promises about the sanctity of Fener.

erkekseniz teker teker gelin, tag-team ile olmaz bu isler ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
If our 'monologue' as you put it, effects you this much, why respond bro? ;) The thing with Cenk and I is that we have a similar mindset, hence the C bros name we've been given. I can assure you that this has nothing to do with the team we support. We seem to agree on pretty much everything. Although there is the odd occasion where we disagree. However, as you don't follow antu, I wouldn't expect you to know this ;)

Please read each post again and point out the repititions to me. I believe my posts are different every time. At the very least they are as different to eachother as yours are ;)

Bu ara, erkeklik kelemesi biraz abese kacmis...
 

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Jemster said:
If our 'monologue' as you put it, effects you this much, why respond bro? ;)
\


Simple, you're attacking besiktas, thats why.
Not that hard to understand ;)

I understand, you're excited at the prospect of fener leading the league-but that still doesn't give you or cenk the right to do this.

Besiktas has not played 'mind games', in fact, besikas has been played with. We have been tripped by the federation for ratings, for a better championship race, for more advertising sales etc.

All the sportscommentators, newspapers etc. were complaining about lack of competition in the league, so they found a solution: Cem Papila!

But what's happened afterwards (loss of performance) is our teams fault, proof that we lack crisis management. despite the calls against us, we shold've kept our composure and maintained our form. This is all that I'm saying, take it as you wish, i could care less.

ps: erkeklik kelimesi gayet yerindeydi cem, yeter artik, marifet degil 2 kisi tag team yapip bir insanin vaktini bu kadar calmak ve haksizca saldirip durmak.
 
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