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Did our one trick donkey assist or scored?
Maybe next match again.
He should move to the right across the side line. The bench to be exact.

He can’t assist, he can’t score, he can’t track back and defend. He can’t be Messi.....
You are aiming at "one trick poster of the year". Posting about Suso before and after every game.

Unlucky loss. Our right side is pretty weak, conti got schooled several times and gave back the game to them.
 

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Conti got schooled so do the other right back. Ask the Messi to track back and defend. You can’t attack you can’t defend.
Second goal by Lecce is an assist from Messi.

#susoout is trending in twitter
I am not that influential to start this movement



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Discussion Starter #63
If you want to get angry today, watch a video of what Suso was doing on Lecce's second goal.
Better still watch the first goal. The penalty rebound, how everyone was scrambling to get to the ball to prevent Babacar from getting the rebound. Watch Suso
 

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Interesting stats on Suso have been circulating on twitter and whatnot. He leads the team in a bunch of negative aspects: failed dribbles and balls lost.

Also interesting stats not reported anywhere:

Suso is fifth in the league in the amount of chances created. He has created 21 chances. Only trails Erick Pulgar from Fiore who leads with 30 (one of the guys who absolutely destroyed us the other day), Callejón, Papu Gomez, and Luis Alberto. Just yesterday Suso put two players alone in front of the GK with very similar passes, Hakan in the first half and Leao in the second.

He leads Milan in chances created, but the most interesting bit of by how much: the next player is Hakan with 9, probably most which were yesterday when his body was possessed by the spirit of Rui Costa. Then Leao has 7, Piatek a similar number, Kessié too, Paquetá only 2, etc. Basically Suso has created almost as many chances as most other attacking players combined.

You can see all that here, even comparing players head to head: https://www.beinsports.com/en/serie-a/statistics

The conclusions of all these stats are obvious for everyone with two eyes and a brain: Suso is a limited player, but he still is the only player in this team capable of creating chances consistently. Because no one else creates anything regularly, he gets the ball way too often for his own good and for his abilities, and therefore loses the ball a bunch of times and looks incredibly predictable, which he already is because of his limited skillset. He is not good enough to be as important as he has been for Milan for years now. Yet unless Hakan keeps this level, which is quite unlikely, and perhaps unless Paquetá starts playing some football and Leao is used as a winger, there is just no alternative. Any manager will keep playing Suso unless the other creative players start performing.
 

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The conclusions of all these stats are obvious for everyone with two eyes and a brain: Suso is a limited player, but he still is the only player in this team capable of creating chances consistently. Because no one else creates anything regularly, he gets the ball way too often for his own good and for his abilities, and therefore loses the ball a bunch of times and looks incredibly predictable, which he already is because of his limited skillset. He is not good enough to be as important as he has been for Milan for years now. Yet unless Hakan keeps this level, which is quite unlikely, and perhaps unless Paquetá starts playing some football and Leao is used as a winger, there is just no alternative. Any manager will keep playing Suso unless the other creative players start performing.
Your conclusion is exactly how I feel except we won't know how this team will perform until given the chance for others to shine. With his limited skills he gets the ball more then everybody else combine(figuratively speaking) so we wont know what other more talented players can do ie.Paqueta and Leao. For the last few years our right side of the field has always been piss poor defensively because Suso rarely tracks back to help with defense it means many goals coming from that side our rb's always looking like shit and getting red carded etc. But we want to give Suso the pass like he is Messi or Kaka and its no surprise that he was trending on Italian twitter the man has been piss poor.
 

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Your conclusion is exactly how I feel except we won't know how this team will perform until given the chance for others to shine. With his limited skills he gets the ball more then everybody else combine(figuratively speaking) so we wont know what other more talented players can do ie.Paqueta and Leao. For the last few years our right side of the field has always been piss poor defensively because Suso rarely tracks back to help with defense it means many goals coming from that side our rb's always looking like shit and getting red carded etc. But we want to give Suso the pass like he is Messi or Kaka and its no surprise that he was trending on Italian twitter the man has been piss poor.
That is fair enough. There are many ways around that: one is certainly to bench him, but IMO it's not easy to imagine a profesional manager will do that looking at the other options available and what they have produced every week compared to what Suso has produced, but it can certainly be tried, especially if Paquetá, Leao and Hakan (or someone else) are in decent level. It's unlikely in particular given how poor Paquetá has been this season so far, though I think this new role is promising for him, and he's played very little. Up to him really to go full "Brazilian" now (to quote the great tactician genius) when we attack, as he is in a very offensive role, and if he actually performs that would certainly help us free the RW role for a different kind of player. The other issue is Hakan. I hope he can keep playing even 1/3 as good as he was yesterday. That was just a huge performance. A three men attacking midfield line of yesterday's Hakan, Paquetá in decent form, and Leao, all behind Piatek... sounds very promising.

Another option to simply stop passing to Suso nine of every ten times. This last game was like that, lots of attacks on the left and center until we got desperate in the end and it was back to Suso all the time. There are actually stats for that too -- I think it was @brickeberg who was showing the other day stats about how many times we usually attack on the right vs the left per game, and its incredibly unbalanced. When we don't, Suso is a good tool; do his cut inside thing a few times, give a few good passes, but it's not the default play.

At any rate, all that is also fairly different than to bitch all day about Suso and pretend he's the source of all our problems. That is pure stupidity.

Having said that, he definitely messed up in the very end in this game, and Biglia ****ed up even more in that play.
 

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Funny, really picking up info which makes Suso stand out comparing to....Paqueta, Kessie and Biglia.
Straw man argument again and again.
Trying not to defend Suso but otherwise.

This is bizarre that Suso is playing advanced role being compared to the other players mentioned.
He should be fvking scoring and get into the opponent box more.

That’s why I have to give to Borini. He really know where to get into scoring position inside the box.

I say it again, playing 4-3-3, I expect 3 strikers roles. Getting into the opponent box and not just assist.



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Funny, really picking up info which makes Suso stand out comparing to....Paqueta, Kessie and Biglia.
Straw man argument again and again.
Trying not to defend Suso but otherwise.

This is bizarre that Suso is playing advanced role being compared to the other players mentioned.
He should be fvking scoring and get into the opponent box more.

That’s why I have to give to Borini. He really know where to get into scoring position inside the box.

I say it again, playing 4-3-3, I expect 3 strikers roles. Getting into the opponent box and not just assist.



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Not only did I explicitly mention the ranking in the whole league and explicitly compare him with Piatek and Leao (and the others are just the top ones in that metric; also we don't really have other wingers who play, so what the hell); I also just linked a tool to compare all the players in the team and in the league.

Anyway, it's completely useless to argue this with you I'm afraid. The info is there, everybody can have their opinions.
 

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Having said all that -- this is probably the best possible time to bench Suso and try the other guys.
 

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You’re absolutely right about Suso, van. It’s sad that he’s pretty much our only weapon, and that the other players keep passing the ball to him, hoping that his individual qualifies will somehow be enough, but surely he’s no Messi, and nobody has ever claimed that to be the case. He’s just the most talented player in a very limited team, no more no less. Having said that, he was incredibly annoying defensively in the 2nd half of this match. Some might say that benching him would force other players to take more responsibility as they couldn’t keep relying on him to do it all, but that’s really wishful thinking. It’s more likely that we would become even more toothless.
 

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I'm going to rewatch this match tonight, after watching it the first time it was 4-3-3 on paper but it seemed like they were playing a 3-2-2-3 while in possession, with Theo basically playing as a LW, with hakan and paqueta playing more centrally as attacking mids, and kessie/biglia in the more defensive mid rolls.
 

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Well, it is pretty lopsided playing at 4–3-3.
On the left we have fast paced and on the right we have player hogging the ball.

We are shit in counter attacking and this becomes a liability for this team who can’t reach potential. We became so predictable due to issue on the right side.
Hakan assist came from the right when he cut thru to the bar line and set up Piantek. I hope Pioli see this and smart enough to tinker on the right side.

While Leao missed a few sitter but he create havoc to the opponents due to his speed and taking on players. He get himself inside the box.

I would like to see Leao and Piantek play together or the former to take up one of the advanced flank.

Seeing Theo take the left wing and we play with three at the back is another option. So Pioli can work something out on the right side which is so glaring slow and predictable.
Ismael could fit in somewhere. Even Borini energy is needed.


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Discussion Starter #73
Please forgive me for asking - what's this "talent" in Suso that you guys called him the most talented in the team? As mediocre or average our players are, to say Suso is the most talented is really an insult to them. And to the team, and to me as a fan if Suso is the most talented in the team I support. What does he do to merit this label? What Footballing techniques or skills does he possess to merit being called the most talented or the only weapon or the only capable of creating?

And I say again the day we sell/bench Suso is the day this team gets its freedom.
 

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Well Laudrup is Susos biggest supporter and Mr Tourch have a axe to grind with him. The truth is as usual in the middle.

i for instance wouldn't say he is the most talented player in our team, in particular not if we talk about potential. As he currently is also not working out well he should start from the bench in the coming games
 

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Suso is fine just not a player to build a team around. If we had a better squad the team wouldn't revolve around him and there would be no issues. So the true problem is the squad.
 

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Please forgive me for asking - what's this "talent" in Suso that you guys called him the most talented in the team? As mediocre or average our players are, to say Suso is the most talented is really an insult to them. And to the team, and to me as a fan if Suso is the most talented in the team I support. What does he do to merit this label? What Footballing techniques or skills does he possess to merit being called the most talented or the only weapon or the only capable of creating?

And I say again the day we sell/bench Suso is the day this team gets its freedom.
7/10
6/7
7/9

That is what he posseses. I really like how people always ignore the amount of goals and assists Suso has given us the last 3 years. Who the **** cares that he is a one trick pony if he produces?
 

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And I say again the day we sell/bench Suso is the day this team gets its freedom.
:howler:

That is so delusional.

frank and bricke are both right in what they say.

Johan: I’m not a fan of Suso really, just trying to be fair as he’s constantly being insulted in here in spite of producing a good amount of chances, assists and goals every season.
 

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I think we all see Suso's limitations, which are pretty obvious. I personally don't mind if he is benched, especially now that we finally seem to have other players seemingly ready to step up.

It's just some (and really in fact a lot) of Milan fans have decided not only to see those limitations and ignore everything else, when what he contributes to the team is also pretty obvious, and not only from the stats, but to aggrandize them to the point that they are the cause of every evil, and to become obsessive about it.

I mean he has been brought up because he was standing outside the box during a PK. We also have one poster who is almost exclusively dedicated to Suso. I recently had a whatsapp conversation with a generally knowledgeable and respected former XT member who argued that the chance Piatek missed in the end against Torino, the header from point blank range, was in fact Suso's fault because of the quality of the cross. True story. :howler:

There's always a scapegoat. We've seen it with players from more or less reasonable ones who were poor like Helveg or Muntari or Borini (but still maligned to a ridiculous degree), to ones who actually contributed quite a bit like Bierhoff, Seedorf, or Suso.
 

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I think we all see Suso's limitations, which are pretty obvious. I personally don't mind if he is benched, especially now that we finally seem to have other players seemingly ready to step up.

It's just some (and really in fact a lot) of Milan fans have decided not only to see those limitations and ignore everything else, when what he contributes to the team is also pretty obvious, and not only from the stats, but to aggrandize them to the point that they are the cause of every evil, and to become obsessive about it.
This is a thing of the past. He's being nothing but a liability this season. He also ****ed up with that AM role, made GM change his tactics, lose the plot, and eventually sacked :scared:

I mean he has been brought up because he was standing outside the box during a PK. We also have one poster who is almost exclusively dedicated to Suso. I recently had a whatsapp conversation with a generally knowledgeable and respected former XT member who argued that the chance Piatek missed in the end against Torino, the header from point blank range, was in fact Suso's fault because of the quality of the cross. True story. :howler:
DISCLAIMER: I cannot confirm or deny that poster was me. Though, it wasn't me :err:

I refer you, sir, to an old interview with Gary Liniker, in which you'll understand why it was Suso's fault indeed :lala:
 

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This is a thing of the past. He's being nothing but a liability this season. He also ****ed up with that AM role, made GM change his tactics, lose the plot, and eventually sacked :scared:
How is it nothing but a liability if he has created almost three times more chances than the next player in the squad? Or he's made passes that put players alone in front of the opposition GK at least four times, two of those in the small box (Piatek and Rebic)? He is a liability in many aspects, especially when he is off form, which happens more regularly than it should, and likely enough to deserve the bench, but he certainly is not only that.

You can't seriously blame the AMC thing or the tactical choices on Suso though. It's as easy as bench him and play someone else. It ends up coming back to the fact that we did not seem to have anyone else who can create chances regularly and managers fully know it. People also talk about 4-3-3 as if it was some crazy formation that only teams who have Suso use. It's the most common formation in football today. It's disingenuous to think Giampaolo's experiment with his favorite 4-3-1-2 failed because of Suso and not because Borini was played as midfield, Hakan as defensive midfielder, etc. or simply because he never managed to get the team to play football at all and it was all a ****ing mess the whole time under him, but even worse whenever he used that formation, which was not a lot anyway. When he did, the guy also had Paquetá, Hakan, etc. but preferred to play Suso as AMC (who IMO would have been much better as a forward or on the bench in that formation).

At any rate the difference with last season (and the one before) is that arguing Suso was the team's main problem when he was scoring and especially assisting often was outright insane. Now he has not scored or assisted in a while, he has a lot of poor stats, there's a black cloud around him, and we seem to have a few more options. If there's a good time to bench him, it's now.
 
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