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Discussion Starter #1
Pršo u Beogradu
17.01.2005 21:05

Hrvatski mediji su na indirektan način potvrdili srpsko poreklo jedne od svojih najvećih fudbalskih zvezda, Miladina - Dade Prša. Prema njihovom pisanju, bratanac hrvatskog reprezentativca i napadača Glazgov Rendžersa buduća je zvezda srpskog fudbala.

14-godišnji Milan Pršo, bratanac Dade Prša, član je Crvene zvezde i igrač pionirske reprezentacije Srbije i Crne Gore. Lajoš Kokai, selektor najmlađe selekcije "plavih" za Prša juniora kaže da je izvanredno vaspitan dečak i za svoje godine odličan poznavalac fudbala. Kokai ipak ističe da će se njegova prava vrednost videti tek za koju godinu kada prođe pubertet.

Milan se iz okoline Zadra u Beograd doselio prilikom akcije "Oluja". Njegov otac Milivoj je i sam nekada bio fudbaler, a o svom sinu u ovom trenutku nije želeo mnogo da govori već je samo potvrdio da se on nalazi pod patronatom menadžera Ranka Stojića.

I still don't understand how his brother is able to wake up every day in the morning and look at himself in the mirror.. Shame !
 

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Well, let's not get political over it. They have plenty of players with Serbian roots and if they can live with it, why should we care.

Besides, it's not as if Prso would be a starter in our NT with the abundance of strikers we have. Milosevic, Ljuboja, Kezman, Jestrovic, Zigic, Pantelic, Delibasic, Lazovic, Vucinic and even Kovacevic.

Hopefully Milan becomes another one of them and naturally I'm proud the kid has good taste in clubs. :)
 

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Not abig deal if an ethnic Serb plays for Croatia. He isn't theonly one. On the other hand, we had some of their 'cadre's in our ranks too: Drazen Bolic and Mateja Kezman are not ethnic Srbs but Croats. I think that Damir Cakar, at least by his name, qualifies as a Croat. Ivica Kralj is probably Croat, etc. Thus if those guys have no prblems with morning mirrors, why should Miladin Prso or Milan Rapajic have?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ben Akiba said:
Mateja Kezman are not ethnic Srbs but Croats.
That's just completely ridicilous. The man is a more devoted Orthodox Christian than any other nt player.. Please provide us with facts before making such remarks.. Damir Cakar? If you ask me it sounds more muslim than anything else. Ivica Kralj is from Kotor, so perhaps in his roots there is some croatian in him but his position can in no way be compared to that of Prso's.

I'll tell you why Prso should feel ashamed, his whole family was chased away by the croats with their homes burned down to the ground. And instead of remaining strong and commited to his nation when most needed, this "person" changes his name (probably religion as well) and all of a sudden becomes a Thompson lover. That's pathetic !

In a related story I read somewhere that when Balaban decided to play for the croatian nt his father forever abanded him and to this day they don't talk.
 

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None of those players you mentioned are ethnic Croats but I like how you named 4 grobars. :D

Bolic was born in Karlovac (Croatia) like Bunjevcevic for instance, but if he truly was a Hrcos he surely wouldn't have gone to Serbia during the war no less.

Kezman has Slovenian roots, hence the name, but the guy is as orthodox and pro Serb as they get, his son's called Lazar.

Ivica Kralj has the name but he's orthodox and from Crna Gora (where they have some even weirder names). It's not as if there aren't Croats called Dragan or Nenad.

As for Cakar, don't know, don't care, he was never NT material.
 

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(where they have some even weirder names)
You mean like when they use a last name as a first name? Yes, very weird :D

I think Kezman said once the name is of Croatian origin. But who cares.
 

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Kezman je pravoslavni Hrvat. To uopste nema veze sa njegovom lojalnoscu prema Srbiji i pro-srpskim osecanjem. On je u Srbiji rodjen i tu su mu preci ziveli i nije neobicno da se oseca Srbinom bez obzira na etnicnost. Nije on jedini Hrvat koji je ziveo u Srbiji i koji se indentifikovao sa Srbijom. Etnicnost i vera u Srbiji nisu nikada bili reper odanosti i patriotizma. Ljudi kao Stanislav Vinaver, Paul Sturm (nemacki general u srpskoj vojsci poznat kao Pavle Jurisic), Djordje Weifert, Getza Kon, Ignjat Bajloni, porodica Ribnikar, Ivo Andric, Tadija Sondermajer, itd. ni etnicki nisu bili Srbi a vecina ih nije bila Pravoslavne vere, ali su svi od reda bili srpski patriote ciji je doprinos rpskoj kulturi i drzavi nemerljiv.

Tamo, u Vinipegu, izgleda stvari postaju prilicno iskrivljene i crno-bele kada su u pitanju Srbija i srpstvo.

Lazar, Drulo, nije srpsko ime, vec jevrejsko - ime jednog Sadukejca (jevrejska verska sekta) koga je Spasitelj digao iz groba.;)

Bilo je Hrvata koji su odlazili u Srbiju kada je poceo rat. Bili su pro-jugoslovensi orijentisani ili su ideoloski su bili vezani za Titoizam koji je Slobodan Milosevic pokusavao da odrzi. Goran Bregovic, na primer, je etnicki Hrvat. Pok. Ipe Ivandic (iz "Bjelog Dugmeta") isto tako. Da ne pominjemo oficire JNA ne-Srbe koji su stali uz Milosevica. Svi oni su izabrali Beograd kada se Jugoslavija pocela da raspada. Ili Hrvate i ine koji su generacijama ziveli u Srbiji - ostali su tamo jer im je Srbija postala domovina.
 

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What is the info you base Kezman's ethnicity on? Kezman's name comes from Slovenia - he said that his grandfather was a Slovene. He's never said anything about being Croatian so I'm interested how you can say he's a Croat? Ive heard some rumours from Licani that his mom (not his dad) is in fact a Croatian but like I said only some Licani said this and never have I read anything about that.

About Prso, let's not forget that he's half Croatian and born there, you know how tough it is for the half/half people. They usually pick one side and be very patriotic over it, or they don't pick a side at all and leave things as they are. And in this case, the Cro NT offered him a big chance.

Goran Bregovic is also half half his mother being Serbian and his father Croatian so you cannot say he's an ethnic Croat.
 

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Monte, it is funny to discuss ethnicity as a measure of nationality, especially in an ethnically heterogeneous region such as ex-Yugoslavia. Kezman ethnically certainly IS NOT Serbian, but by nationaly and by his choice he is. Dado Prso maybe ethnicaly a Serb but his choice is Croatia and therefore he is a Croatian. You are ethnically Serb, but nationally you're Dutch by birth and choice. My son is ethnically mixture of Czech and a Serb but he is an American 100%.

If you insist on ethicity as being an important determinant of nationality, then Bregovic is Croat since in Serbian (and Croatian) tradition the ethnicity is transferred by father.
 

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monte said:
About Prso, let's not forget that he's half Croatian and born there, you know how tough it is for the half/half people. They usually pick one side and be very patriotic over it,
That is very true, you can even see it on the forums here. ;)
 

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:rolleyes:

As far as I'm concerned, if you play for Croatia, you're Croatian. If you play for Serbia, then you're Serbian! It's as simple as that. There's nothing Serbian about a guy singing the Croatian anthem and running around in checkered shirts.
 

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What is the info you base Kezman's ethnicity on?
It was the first interview sportskacentrala did with him. I think.
 

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Ben Akiba said:
Monte, it is funny to discuss ethnicity as a measure of nationality, especially in an ethnically heterogeneous region such as ex-Yugoslavia. Kezman ethnically certainly IS NOT Serbian, but by nationaly and by his choice he is. Dado Prso maybe ethnicaly a Serb but his choice is Croatia and therefore he is a Croatian. You are ethnically Serb, but nationally you're Dutch by birth and choice. My son is ethnically mixture of Czech and a Serb but he is an American 100%. .
I know it IS NOT Serbian ;) but he said his grandfather came from Slovenia so I questioned you about the Croatian part. All in all it is not very important what he is, but I want to be sure.

About Dado Prso - people overlook some important issues. Who says his choice is Croatia? Yes, he chose their NT, and represents their country in football. So? Does that mean he chose that part of himself over the Serbian part? Not to me. So your conclusion 'therefore he is Croatian' does not have to be true at all. It's just football. The guy was born in Croatia, that fact alone is enough to say he's Croatian, his choice to play in their NT does not affect that anymore. (my opinion: A choice to represent SCG would have made less sense for a half/half being born and raised in Cro, -unless someone has had some nasty experiences - although everyone in that position would still be welcome).

I bolded the word choice because I do not fully agree with the sentence although it's too complicated to explain what I mean exactly (it does not have to do with Serbia either).

Ben Akiba said:
If you insist on ethicity as being an important determinant of nationality, then Bregovic is Croat since in Serbian (and Croatian) tradition the ethnicity is transferred by father.
I never saidI insisted on anything I simply said he is not ethnically a Croat if he has a Croatian and a Serbian parent. Yes I know that it is tradition and that is how it's seen back there but quite frankly I find that a dumb theory while discussing someone's ethnicity. A child has a mother and a father who both play an equal part in determining a child's ethnicity.

(sorry for the editing I need to see the post in full format to see if I agree with all I wrote in the first 'edition' and most of the time I do not ;) )
 

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Ethnicity is part of tradition and no much more than that. It is not a biological category or quantitative category to be mesured as half-half, 3/4 etc. As a part of a tradition, ethnicity has to have some traditional way of being transferred to posterity since one cannot inherit it genetically or by some divine intervention. Many ethnical groups chose father as being a 'carrier' of ethic (or religious) belonging. On the other hand, there are some that assigned this 'sacred' duty to mother.
 

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Ben Akiba said:
Ethnicity is part of tradition and no much more than that. It is not a biological category or quantitative category to be mesured as half-half, 3/4 etc. As a part of a tradition, ethnicity has some traditional way of being transferred since one cannot inherit it genetically or by some divine intervention. Many ethnical groups chose father as being a 'carrier' of ethic (or religious) belonging. On the other hand, there are some that assigned this 'sacred' duty to mother.
:wallbang: Yes you have a point there (although i DO think ethnicity is more than tradition).

Brings me to an anecdote about this: A woman from BG once asked me, 'do you like your juice?' I said yeah... 'well if I pour water into it, it will still be more or less the same colour, but is it the same juice?' No..

anyway :D
 

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Ethnicity is a lot more than tradition, I might be British by birth but as a person I'm Serb. My attitudes, my beliefs, who I am as a person is determined by my ethnic origin, I class myself as a British Serb not English.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Ben Akiba said:
Kezman je pravoslavni Hrvat.
Vecu glupost u zivotu nisam procitao. Covek se rodio, odrasto, i proveo veci deo svog zivota u Srbiji. A da ne pricamo o tome koliko je para ulozio za obnovu Hilandara, porusenih manastira po Kosovu itd. Kako je onda moguce da je hrvat? Znam da cesto volis da lupas gluposti, ali po meni si u ovoj sitvaciji bas, bas preterao. I ponovo te pitam, odakle tebi to da su njegovi koreni iz Hrvatske?

Tamo, u Vinipegu, izgleda stvari postaju prilicno iskrivljene i crno-bele kada su u pitanju Srbija i srpstvo.
Ne, nego ocigledno da si ti matori odavno prolupao. Kao sto ne postoji Pravoslavni hrvat, tako isto ne postoji katolicki Srbin (a oni katolici sto zive u Srbiji deklarisu se uglavnom kao madjari, ili u mnogo manjem broju kao hrvati)..Ali opet me zanima, kakve veze ima Kezman sa Prsom? Zasto si njega uopste spomenuo ovde, da bi mene iritirao, jel? Pa cak i da su njegovi pre nekih 100 godina dosli iz hrvatske, to i dalje ne moze da se uporedi sa Prsom cija je cela porodica bila PROTERANA iz svojih kuca. A on frajer ladno obuce sahovnicu i sa rukom na srce slusa, "lijepa nasa", eh Boze, svasta se moze videti na ovom svetu danas..
 
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