[SAD ANDY]

It has not happened yet, but it deserves a thread of it's own.

So far, this is what has happened :

-Löw does not play Frings in either of the 2 last qualifiers, Frings sits on the bench
-Ballack speaks to the press, voicing his disapproval of Frings not playing, and says Löw should come out and say whether he intends to play Frings or not
-Löw responds in the press, voicing his disapproval of Ballack speaking to the press, but says Ballack's position and standing in the NT is unaffected
-Löw then later speaks to the press again, telling Ballack to come to Germany and have a 1 on 1 meeting, with his captaincy and playing time itself at stake
-Ballack says the NT needs to contact Chelsea, as he is being tended by Chelsea's medical staff and is recuperating at their facility

Am I missing something between Löw's first and second press conferences? Something by Ballack? Because what explanation is there for Löw saying he doesn't feel any differently about Ballack's position, and then goes and demands to see Ballack, threatening his position?

Anyway, does it not seem hypocritical for Löw to talk to the PRESS to respond to Ballack, exactly what he is criticizing Ballack for doing? And he had 2 interviews after Ballack said what he said, so there is certainly no excuse for him speaking anything about what should be said to the press and not personally.

My thoughts are :

1. Ballack acts on instinct, which is to say spontaneously and bull headedly
2. Löw seems passive aggressive. You can see it in how he acts.
3. This should end the same way as Ballack's problems with that other guy, a little private talk and everything stays the same
4. Frings will retire from the NT, so no decision has to be made about him

Ballack spoke his mind, whether warranted or not, and Löw, with his 2nd interview, blew it way out of proportion. Both are afraid of losing their position.

At least now I know why Ballack played the full Wales game, obviously injured. It's because he fears his position is in danger, and thus played even though he shouldn't have in his condition.

 

[Tigerheart]

There are not the same measurements for a coach and a player. As everybody with a position in German football already mentioned, Löw and Ballack are not on the same level, Löw is Ballack's boss!

It is like on this forum, if I am the owner then I can do things that normal users are not allowed to do. And I don't mean administration stuff .

 

[SAD ANDY]

They may not be on the same level, but I find do indeed find it hypocritical that Löw says it is disappointing that Ballack speaks to the press and not him directly, and then proceeds himself to speak to the press, and not Ballack directly.

This is speaking of the 2nd interview, of course. Where he changes from the normal rebuttal, to a complete THREAT to Ballack.

I have no problem with either of their first Interviews, I have a huge problem with Löw's 2nd interview.

This is like if I (a poster) start a thread saying Tigerheart (the mod) should be clear on who can and cannot post in here, as some can only view this forum, and not reply in them. And you reply in my thread, stating I should have Private Messaged you about all this, and you don't like how I posted a public thread, but my posting privileges will not change. And then you reply again, in the public thread, demanding me to PM you and clear matters, and I may be suspended/banned depending on how I respond.

That's ridiculous.

 

[Edwin]

Ballack has an ego problem here.

Whether, Low has one or not and is at fault is irrelevant. Ballack is an NT player at the moment, not the head or assistant coach, not head of the german DFB.

Like Frank said, Lowe is Ballack's boss and that's the end of the story. If Low is at fault, the DFB is his boss and will deal with him appropriately.

 

[Rothose]

I think the overall mood in the NT is not very good at the moment.
It was wrong by Ballack to critizise Löw in the media, he should have done that in a personal conversation with the NT management.
But what worries me is that Ballack is not a loudmouth who speaks first and thinks later like Effenberg, Matthäus, Basler and all those former NT 'greats'. I don't think that the only reason for the recent outbursts in the media are aging players fearing to lose their starting spots in the NT.

Löw and his paladins like Hansi F(l)ick and esp. Bierhoff are suspicious to me. Under the management of Klinsmann and Bierhoff, the NT was turned into a marketing machine for which the sport was not the only focus anymore, the NT and the NT matches were used to create 'events' in order to earn money. Bierhoff was often critizised for that and i bet that esp. the older players were annoyed by all this marketing hype around the NT created by Bierhoff. Löw seemingly did nothing to stop that, to stop Bierhoff and to turn the focus back to the sport, at least this is my impression.

Will be interesting to see what happens next. Frings is not a factor anymore but if we lose Ballack, this will weaken our NT.

 

[Tigerheart]

Well there are two things i need to reply.

The first is: If you get criticized in public you obviously get asked by the media about it, you cannot even avoid speaking to the public without sounding weird ("no comment" stuff). And as I already said before, there is a certain order. If a players does something wrong the coach will react, if the coach does something wrong the club/association will react. The German FA publically supported Löw and criticized Ballack for what he did, that should say enough about doing something wrong or not in this case.

The second thing is to Rothose: Löw has been the statistically best coach in the history of German nationalteam football. Yes, Bierhoff can be a bit annoying and I haven't forgotten how his wife kicked out Kahn from the WC 06 but nobody can deny the success of the team. And that is absolutely all that matters, that Germany has success at tournaments.

I also don't see the loss of Ballack as a super big deal if it would happen. Surely he is a great player but he also is a born loser and he is by far not as influential anymore as he used to be. There are other players around him in the nationalteam with big quality by now and where he once used to be the best out of everyone he now is not the main focus anymore. He just fears that and that shows a very bad attitude in him. We all already know what a sore loser he is and now he already bitches before actually losing. I am really tired of this. I hope he gets stripped of the captaincy, that would teach him a lesson and he can still be a part of the team.

 

[SAD ANDY]

The first is: If you get criticized in public you obviously get asked by the media about it, you cannot even avoid speaking to the public without sounding weird ("no comment" stuff).

No, that is when you say to the media "This is a private matter, I will discuss this privately", not demand privacy from the player and then publically threaten his position.

The German FA publically supported Löw and criticized Ballack for what he did, that should say enough about doing something wrong or not in this case.

This means nothing. The German FA will publically support the NT Coach over any criticism anyone has, because otherwise it would throw into doubt why the FA is keeping a Coach they do not support. Even if Ballack had said Löw is kicking the ankles of players who are not loud enough in their dressing room rallies prior to 1st & 2nd halves, the German FA would support the Coach.

Surely he is a great player but he also is a born loser

So are most of the German players then. Schweinsteiger? Klose? Podolski? Lahm? Both the German NT and Bayern have lost a lot of cups.

and he is by far not as influential anymore as he used to be.

I heavily disagree. Watch the NT without him, and with him. Big difference.

There are other players around him in the nationalteam with big quality by now

That has always been the case, but nobody in his position.

and where he once used to be the best out of everyone he now is not the main focus anymore.

Hah, who, in your opinion? The only person who is standing out for the NT besides Ballack for me, is Lahm. And even Lahm has very off days.

I hope he gets stripped of the captaincy,

There is not a single player on the German NT who I can see as Captain instead, other than Frings, who is not being used.

Who should be Captain in your eyes?

A Keeper? Already a bad choice, but you have Adler. A Defender? All of them are too young and not leaders. Midfielders? The only leader and experienced player in Midfield is Ballack. A Striker? Already a bad choice, you want Klose? How will he lead the team when he is isolated up in the opponent's half?

Ballack & Frings are the only choices for Captaincy.

 

[Tigerheart]

We are not going to agree on this.

I will stick to the opinion of 90% of the persons in German football that have said something about the topic.

 

[SAD ANDY]

What is your opinion then, on what will happen at this meeting?

 

[Tigerheart]

I honestly have no idea, the latest escalation is Scolari saying Ballack is not allowed to travel because of his injury and if Löw wants something he needs to come to London. If I would be Löw I would refuse but I don't know how he will react.

My decision as said before would be to strip Ballack of the captaincy. New captain would be Klose since in German nationalteam it is always the one with most nationalteam games. After Klose comes Friedrich (actually Frings but he doesn't count) with just two more games than Schweinsteiger. I think Schweinsteiger will be the captain for quite a long time after Ballack isn't captain anymore. The question if just when he will not be captain anymore.

I have absolutely no idea what Löw will do but the longer the fight goes the stronger will be the impact on Ballack, that is sure.

 

[SAD ANDY]

WTF Scolari, I hope this is not true.

Anyways, the problem with Captaincy is not the Armband, but the player. You can go ahead and put it on any player, it does not mean the player will suddenly become a leader.

Klose is not a good choice, as he is a Striker. He cannot lead anyone when he is so far upfield. Schweinsteiger is not much of a leader either.

The captain needs to be someone between the goalposts and the forwards, IE a Midfielder who plays all along the midfield. And then, you need a talker. One who speaks to all the teammates during the game.

Klose does not do this, Schweinsteiger mostly only opens his mouth, to complain to the referee.

This is why Ballack is the perfect Captain for Germany. He is both a DMF and an AMF, so he is close to all the teammates, and he talks to them all. He talks all the game long to his teammates, encouraging them.

 

[Tigerheart]

A captain also needs to be respected by his teammates and well other than Frings nobody reacted positive about his interview/fight with Löw.

There are a lot of captains out there that are strikers btw. And I am not saying quality-wise there is a better captain than Ballack but if he acts like lately then it is not how a captain should act and of course that also counts in being a good or bad captain.

 

[Captain Dotty]

Loew, what a man! :heart::hopeful:

 

[SAD ANDY]

Tigerheart, please please please translate this brand new article for me, I am using Babelfish and it doesn't recognize half the German words!

I understand enough in German to know the jist of it, most of the key points, but I cannot understand the details, and it seems neither does Babelfish!

Here is the article : http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/nationalelf/startseite/artikel/384492/

What I get from it is :

-Ballack has apologized today
-Ballack said it was never intentional to attack the coach
-Chelsea did not let Ballack go to Germany, because he has something like a Cast on his legs, and has to wait until in therapy until the things on his legs can be removed
-Requests a personal meeting on January 31st?

Could you specifically translate the Ballack quotes? Those are the most important.

Thanks!

 

[Tigerheart]

What I get from it is :

-Ballack has apologized today
-Ballack said it was never intentional to attack the coach
-Chelsea did not let Ballack go to Germany, because he has something like a Cast on his legs, and has to wait until in therapy until the things on his legs can be removed

Not a cast, just strings from the surgery. They will be removed next week.

-Requests a personal meeting on January 31st?

No, as soon as possible, so most likely next week or the week after that.

Could you specifically translate the Ballack quotes? Those are the most important.

He said he will fly to Germany to meet Löw and apologize as soon as his medical status allows him to do. He said it was wrong to do it in public but he never imagined it to become such a big deal. Therefore he now needs to say it was a mistake. He didn't want to attack the coach but support teammates in a difficult situation. He didn't want to attack anybody personal but as a captain wanted to say what he thinks is wrong with the nt.

That are all of his quotes. Earlier today Löws lawyer (don't ask me why he had to say anything but well some like publicity) said Löw is extremely hurt by what Ballack said especially about the respect part since respect it the most important thing for Löw. And the lawyer said the meeting is not a talk but rather a hearing and if Ballack doesn't explain himself making enough sense to still work together then no possible option can be ruled out. The lawyer sounded like Ballack has little chance of a future in the nationalteam.

To me it sounds a bit as if Ballack suddenly feared he went to far. Now I think what will happen for sure is keeping Ballack in the nationalteam after the talk with Löw. If he continues to be captain? No idea.

 

[SAD ANDY]

THANK YOU!

And Strings? Owww, those suck. I had my head sewn up when I was young, the bastard doctor in charge of taking them out tugged them on my head to get a reaction from me.

And what's up with this lawyer business? Did Löw even authorize this lawyer to speak, or did he just want a piece of the media?

 

[Tigerheart]

There was no comment on whether he was supposed to talk or not, I guess rather not...

 

[Rafo]

What's the problem with Bierhoff's money making policies in such difficult financial times after all?

I think Ballack should be in the team, at least until WC 2010. But if the worse happens, Borowski is the best option to replace him. Almost as good a goalscorer. Well, that's what Ballack did best after all.

Joachim 'touchy' Loew.

 

[Berbatov_9]

does that all deserve to be in the main news on ard? LOL

A simple call should have been enough to end it. Better: Ballack should have said that behind closed doors- not via the media. Then the discussion would not have become that big.

Btw: I think the problem is not Löw for Ballack, it´s more Bierhoff. That slimy guy has lots of influence. And his favourites.

 

[football48]

Yes, I worry about Ballack's position with the team now. I hope all of this is just the marketing genius Bierhoff's attempt to steal tabloid interest, but sadly it seems to run more deeper and personal. It's rather unfortunate that Ballack feels the need to publicly critisize his own, and now has to back-track after sticking-up for his teammates because, formally, he's a subordinate. What has Low ever done for the stature of German football that his players haven't done for him and for us? Personally, Ballack should be player, captain and coach. It's things like these that make me remember how tactically out of touch Low was for the Euro final.