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Discussion Starter #1
Here it is. I am sick of European football. I love it, but I am sick of it. And yes for what I am about to say my team is also guilty for. I am sick of having to many foreigners on our clubs.

For starters a club in England or anywhere else for that matter should be comprised of players from that country, Chelsea are an absolute ****ing disgrace.

This is the reason that I have such a huge dis-interest in the Serie A, Spanish leagues. To many non-italian, non-spanish players. As a fan of national rather than club soccer I think it is our clubs responsibility to protect our players and develop them to make our country better. I have said this a lot of times but the Azzuri are finished in 4-6 years, the Germans are crumbling as we speak and it is only a matter of time before the same fate hits the English and Spanish. Something must be done. Last week the EU rejected UEFA's proposal that each club must field a MINIMUM of 6 players eligible to play for that Clubs national team. What a farce, I thought that would be the rule that would save football. But not, the greedy fat-cats have spoken. Shame. The game is losing its soul with their inflated competitions and such. A bloody shame.

I have always said that if I was a pro player and I was a superstar I would play for PORTO only and only PORTO. What happened to club loyalty?

I remember awhile back the illustrious Pele made a comment. He said that when he played all those years for Santos (his only real club) he would kiss his shirt after a goal to signify his love for the club and supporters. He then said that he sees players do that for 3-4 clubs in their careers. Where is the loyalty he asked?

Thank you for your time,


FOREVER PORTO!
FOREVER THE NORTH!
SEMPRE PORTUGAL!


[This message has been edited by Marcoa (edited 22-04-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Marcoa (edited 22-04-2000).]
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have always said that if I was a pro player and I was a superstar I would play for PORTO only and only PORTO. What happened to club loyalty?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Greed and running after money can change anything....


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Sabry, Benfica
Del Piero, Juve
Forza Juve
 

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Hmm...I will bring you an examble from basketball.Greece was traditionaly the biggest power in european basketball along with Spain and Italy.All these countries grew up some magnificant players like Galis,Menegin and San Epifanio.After some years,these cpountires were still dominating europian basketball but something was starting to change,the greek clubs started giving the greek nationality to serbian players to use them as greeks since only two foreighners were allowed.It worked and at time you could see 3 serbians and two americans at playing at the same team.Not all teams had serbian-greeks but all the top clubs had at least one.The italians did the same with Slovenians while the spaniards prefered to naturalise Americans.After the Bosman ruling things went out of control.Now every italian,greek or spanish top team has 5 or 6 foreighners at a roster of 12 players.You can see Italians playing in Greece,Spanish in italy and Greeks at Italy and Spain.Since the greek clubs were the richer they started to attract the best EU-players and naturalised americans (US players with EU passport).The national team was struggling whikle Italy made something different,decided to call foreighners with Italian passport to the national team! now the 3 players out of 5 starting at their national team are non-italians.One american,one brazilian and one Slovenian.The spanish did the same and used an american.Basketball seemed to be ready for the disaster...but then what happened? some new talent grew up and the managers dropped foreighners.There are foreighners at the clubs but at almost every team has one or four or three espablished domestic internationals and two or three domestic young talents.Spain presented De Miguel and De La Fuente,Greece has Fotsis,Papanikolau and Dikoudis while Italy has Meneghin and Basile.All these and of course many more have managed to shine despite the competition from the foreighners.To be exact,it helped them since they had to work harder to break in the roster.Anmd they did.The results? Greece has right now the best crop of talents and young players since the old years.Foreighners are still here,but onbly quality ones who give something to the championship...and guess what,Greece dominates again europian basketball.Everyone thought basketball is dead but the greeks,spanish and italian players proved the opposite...

Its exactly the same with football...it seems we go for a disaster but a sport with so many fans cant die.And as long as the CL games offer the quality we all see we have nothing to fear of.



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The sun will rise again...and it will be...GIALLOBLU!
 

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Marcoa I have always believed the same thing and agree with you 100%. There are the odd loyal players but unfortuanetly the beautiful game has turned in to a game dominated by players and managers who are only interested in money and teams such as chelsea shouldn't be even called english and with heynckes buying many foreigners and depleting the portuguese players benfica are going the same way.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
sabry,

I've always prided myself on my loyalty. Yes I would play ONLY for Porto if i was a superstar. I would be paid well as Porto is not poor so I would see no need to play abroad.
 
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I agree with the sentiment about money dominating the game, what is especially sinister is the media and TV companies buying teams.

They then want a 16 team Euro league with NO promotion and NO relegation. Of course Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man U, Milan, Lazio etc will be in this. There would be one token Portuguese team - Porto in all probability.

Eventually it could be like the NFL or Baseball.

However the big three in Portugal buy all the best players from the other Portuguese teams the same as Spainish and Italian teams ultimately buy the big 3's best players.

No difference.
How can Sporting complain if Delfim goes to Italy when they got him from Boavista?
 

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Marcoa,

you misunderstood my post, I mean that OTHER players are running after the money not you, I was not suspecting your loyalty, I know you would play for only Porto and I said nothing about Porto being rich or poor, its totally not my business...

Hope you got the message

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Del Piero, Juve
Forza Juve
 

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The players have to have free agency. Without it, they have absolutely no say in where they can work. They should be allowed to seek the highest wage possible. Isn't that what every worker does? Unfortunately, free agency means no team will stay together for more than a few seasons.
As for the foreigners- don't blame them, blame the owners who'd rather bring in talent than cultivate their own. The last thing we need is racist/predjudiced response to an issue that has nothing to do with nationality (I'm not calling a racist, Marcoa. But their are many people, aside from yourself, who will take this argument in that direction). Football is a business just like building cars or selling stocks. It would be nice to believe all the footballers would play for free, but that's a joke. They've got to make a living. The only difference is they make a fotune playing a game.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
no blame Bosman. Before the Bosman ruling Champions League football was actually exciting. Before you could have teams like Steau Bucharest, Red Star, Benfica, Ajax make it to the CL final but now it is all the fat cat bastards who run real, barca, manu, inter etc.....

Second some football teams are not just teams but icons. barcelona is the perfect example. Barcelona is a symbol of Catalonia (spelling?) yet they are comprised of mainly dutch and other nationalites. what the $%^& to dutchman care about the battle between Catalonia and Madrid? Nothing because they would leave for any club that bids higher. Look at Mihatovic (name?) on Fiorentina. I remember when he signed for them last summer he goes on rambling about that it was "ALWAYS MY DREAM TO PLAY FOR FIORENTINA" pffffff...ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....yeah I'm sure some kid growing up in Belgrade dreams about playing in Florence.

and no the advertisers and TV Companies do not control the game. We do. I wish! I wish! that every football fan in the world would stand up and say that they are sick of this BS and then......change the channel! Oh my! that would be sending out a message. Tell me Daeone, if you were a serb would you not be frustrated when every talented player in your clubs gets bought out by some Italian-Portuguese-Spanish-Brit etc... club out there. That would leave your league with a bunch of second and third team players. I am tired of this. We must all make a stand, but we won't. Because we fall right into their hands, we are the suckers. The game is losing its soul......and it seems that it is only me that cares.
 

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I hear you. If Sporting could ahve kept it's talent they could field the current team plus Figo, Sousa, Sabrosa, Cadete and so on. It would be great to have a team stay together and dominate for years. What solution do you propose? Do we forbid the players to offer their services to the highest bidder? That's capitalism, my friend. We could go back to paying the players a small wage and signing them to the team for life, but that's little more than indentured servitude. What if somebody really does want to see the world and play in Rome or Madrid? They should be allowed. I just get pissed when a player really would like to stay at a club, but can't because the club can't pay them like the big teams. The bigger teams have always bought the best players from around the world. Barca has always had foreign stars. The problem is that the old rule that allowed only three foreigners on the field rule is gone. Barca, Milan etc. can field a global all-star team because they can. It's not the players fault that they get payed a fortune or that Portugal can't compete with Italy and Spain in salaries. That's just economics and I don't like any more than you do.
 

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Club loyalty never existed because owner loyalty to players never existed. As soon as a player loses a step or doesn't meet expectations he is gone. We do it here everyday, calling for the transfers of players that no longer meet our approval. I have always loved particular players no matter where they play. Should I hate Figo because he left Sporting. No, he just made the right decision for himself. Don't blame the players for taking advantage of what the system gives them.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The 3 foreigners a side rule was wonderful! Best rule ever! And now FIFA wanted to introduce the 6 nationals rule....which would also be wonderful! but guess what...it was rejected....Daeone lets not forget that it is us who pay their ridiculous salaries and it is who wonder who much the playeres really care about us. They go on talking about how the fans this, the fans that...but frankly they don't give a **** about us.
 
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I have to agree with Marcoa.
Free agency is fine. But the current system of the CL means the rich teams get richer and the poorer get poorer. Then obviously they've got the cash to buy the players.

It's gonna get worse.
By their prize money split, UEFA is making the inequality greater.

The trouble is if UEFA tried to reverse this trend the big teams would just break away and form their own league anyway.

Football's ****ed.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
amen Laureano!
 

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True, but football has always been like that to a degree. Look at each country's league and you'll find that only a handful of teams have ever really won the championship. There are exceptions, but not many. I think the point you're making is that now the European tournaments have become the same way. It used to be teams like Benfica would make the European Cup final every few years. Now only a handful of teams have a real shot at winning. That's a sad truth that will probably not change. The CL is all about television and advertising dollars. Berlusconi of Milan wanted this mega-champions league ten years ago and he finally got it. He figured playing the little teams was a waste of time and there was more money if the big teams played only each other. The funny thing is he keeps getting beaten by those little teams (Gala and Rosenburg).
 

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not true Daeone. I remember about 20 years ago Academica/Setubal/Guimaraes had actually challenged for the title...never happen again though
 

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Boavista challenged last year. Some little team always challenges and makes it interesting , but in the end the big fish come out on top.
 

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20 years ago when football was actually played with passion if you didnt have much passion for your club then you at least had passion for your country.
Remember when teams like setubal went in to europe and gave teams like liverpool a good game i might be mistaken but didnt setubal beat liverpool 5-1 or something similar. We had teams like academica and setubal who would give the big three a run for their money.
In euorpean finals you had teams from different countries Belgium, Portugal, Romania, Engalnd, Spain, Italy, France Germany, russia, austria, scotland, hungary and more.
Unfortuanetly today's game is all about money thats why the best players go to the biggest teams with the most money regardless of how much they like the team. 7 out of the last eight teams this year were from the 4 richest leagues and were probably very high on the rich list of clubs, whilst only in 1980 the last eight in the european cup were nottingham forest, hamburg, ajax, real madrid, dynamo berlin, hadjuk split, celtic and strasbourg. Apart from 2 or 3 of these teams they aer now all struggling. WHY? Because they are not a big club and do not have much money and can't compete with the man utd's and the barcelona's.
Take Nottingham Forest as an example they won the european cup in 1979 and 1980 because they had a good manager and players who were comitted to their club and money only came second. Now they until recently were battling against relegation from the first division (the equivalent of the segunda liga) because they do not have the fan base and the financial resources to compete with the big teams and any good players they do get are only interested in money like van hooijdonk who went on strike from the club for about 4 months.
Unfortunately football is heading further this way with breakaway superleague's because of ludicrous t.v contracts, because of pay per view because of rising ticket prices because of the amount of foreigners a team is allowed to field. Soon the real fans will be priced out of the game but what do the football governing bodies care but what do the big clubs care, Well they dont care including they are making money.
Regarding the 6 foreigner rule I personally think 6 foreigners are too much and it should be a 3 foreigner rule if not less.
What the **** is the point of calling Chelsea English if they often play without a single Englishmen, same with Rangers who play with maybe one scotsman, benfica soon will be going down the same way and soon the players who play for the club I support will not even be able to speak my Language.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Good points!

There is no passion in today's game. Players go on the field with the mentality that if they fail they know some other dumb-ass owner will overpay them again.

[This message has been edited by Marcoa (edited 23-04-2000).]
 

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We are all very naive if we believe that money came second to the players of 20 years ago. Those players weren't any different than today. There's just a hell of lot more money around for them to consider and they now have the freedom to go after it.
What I do find disgusting is the new leagues that spring up for the big teams. Football is very boring when only teams from three or four countries can win. There are so many games being played that you need two or three strong teams within the club to win anything. One for the CL, one for the league and one for the country's cup. That's what is truly foul. That's why team from Portugal, Holland etc... will never win anything anymore. The likes of Porto and Ajax can field great teams, but they can't play on three fronts. Barca can because they have twenty world class players from all over the place.
I agree with the sentiments you have expressed, but I think it's wrong to blame the players. True, they should consider club loyalty, but the clubs should consider loyalty as well. The truth is the clubs are only loyal to themselves. The players are interchangable and are replaced when no longer needed. That's why the player must find the highest wage possible. Their careers are short anyhow, but they are even shorter when their club no onger finds them profitable.
 
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