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Discussion Starter #1
What are your feelings concerning McLeish? Do we keep him until the end of the season or what? I'm loathe to call for his head, but i'm starting to get fed up with him. Tactically, he's been shown up time and again, and his team selection usually raises a few eyebrows. Fair enough, he's had nothing like the money either Advocaat or Smith had to spend, but it is his team. His bad signing's must outweigh his good one's.

One of his favourite lines is that he won't sign player's for the sake of it, and that new player's are bought because they can add something to the team. Player's like Capucho, Ostenstad, Vanoli, and Mladenovic (up to now) have added absolutely nothing. Additionally, Khizanishvili is looking substandard despite a promising start, Vignal is a headless chicken with no positional sense, and Bob Malcolm's prolonged appearances in the first team continue to baffle me.

In short, the team, as it is just now, will not win the championship, will not win the Scottish Cup, and will struggle to even win the CIS Cup. If this happens, McLeish must go. Anyway, Happy New Year...
 

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Nice guy but at times pretty dreadful tactically. Admitedly it's be a tough job because key players like Boumsong (and Ferguson previously)....the sort of players he was trying to build the team around....have been sold at terrible times, so i can sympathise a bit with his predicament. But there is just beginning to be too many really stupid decisions over the last year that are not helping the cause - Bob Malcolm not only getting a contract extension but also seeming to become a first choice, Moore getting picked for the game against PAOK away then worse of all for the game against CSKA, the decision playing players out of position, the tactics for Euro games - PAOK and Auxerre especially....Would still give him until the end of the season though.
 

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I think he deserves til the end of the season... but tactically, I fear he has already shown he is most definately NOT the man for the job.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
He's very much on a slippery slope now. His whole attitude and demeanour annoys me. In much the same way as I wanted Brown and Vogts sacked, I detest McLeish's apparent lack of passion. I think as fans we like to think of our players getting bawled at after bad performances. Maybe McLeish does, but I find it hard to imagine.

This Rangers team, no matter what he's had to spend, is his. Eight of the players who started yesterday were signed by him, with Hutton also coming through the ranks during his tenure. At least 3 or 4 of them are not good enough. From now until the end of January is probably going to be the most important period of McLeish's reign. The signings he makes (or fails to make) will decide his future one way or the other. Lose the title, and I don't care by how much, and his time must be up.

I'm not just saying this on the back of one result either. He's steadily been losing the faith of the fans, and once that happens it's difficult to get it back. I remember when we appointed him I was one of the few fans I knew who thought he'd do a good job. I still hope he proves me correct.
 

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In Europe I think he's failed to match up to Advocaat. I don't think we're going anywhere fast in Europe under McLeish. This is due to tactical failures which have been shown up recently- especially in the last two games. On European nights we were usually in good shape under Advocaat though.

As TB says he has lost two highly influential players in Boumsong and Ferguson. He's lost other players besides that. Domestically he's done as well or better than Advocaat with a lesser squad of players and no money. It seems to be down to his man management skills which are better than Advocaat's. McLeish has the dressing room and on the whole this is enough for the SPL where the Old Firm's quality wins out over any tactics.

Under McLeish we still have a good chance of winning two trophies this year and next year we'll still challenge to the end for domestic honours. In Europe though I think we'll fall again unless he is actually learning something from these defeats. For now I'm happy for him to be in charge.
 

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I don't like the players he's signed on the transfer market. He was handed a no bad team, not world class, but not a team that would have been beaten by Celtic six times in a row.

I don't know if he solely makes these decisions but maybe the team should get some new scouts. Or he needs new advisers. Whatever he needs, he must change the type of players he buys on the transfer market. Young players would be a nice start. No more of this buying players at the end of their career nonsense. Also, players who play for the shirt and not money would be nice.

I really miss the old days, McCoist, Goram, Durrant, Dury et al, played for the shirt.
 

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To be fair to McLeish though that squad he inherited was not performing before he came along and he took them to a domestic cup double then treble. That was without any cash and then he was forced to let the best players go- that's when it all went wrong. Team building doesn't seen to be his best asset as this was the vibe I got from Hibs and Motherwell supporters too. He has had a limited budget to do it though.

Apart from that though I think the scouting system in general has not been good. Who scouted Marcus Gayle for Advocaat or told him £12m would be a good deal on Flo?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Measuring McLeish against Advocaat domestically is a difficult one. I know there are a lot of mitigating circumstances for McLeish's failings, but I think history will remember Advocaat as a more successful Rangers manager than McLeish (especially up to this point in McLeish's management).
 

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I think you are right and people will see Advocaat as the more successfull. As this season is not over you can't really count it but over the six year period this is how they have done:

98/99 Advocaat Treble
99/00 Advocaat League and Scottish Cup
00/01 Advocaat Nothing
01/02 Advocaat/McLeish Scottish Cup and League Cup.
02/03 McLeish Treble
03/04 McLeish Nothing

In a head-to-head Advocaat won two out of the four Championships he was involved in. Up to now McLeish has the same 50% record with one Championship out of a possible two- the league was already over before he arrived in the 01/02 season.

Both won two Scottish Cups out of a possible three which shows but that will definitely now changed with our exit on Sunday there. McLeish though has won two out of three league cups whereas Advocaat only won one out of the three. This season that will hopefully be three out of four for McLeish.

Trophy-wise Advocaat has the upper hand given that an extra SPL title is much better than an extra CIS Cup. Percentage-wise though McLeish has the better domestic record in a lesser time with lesser resources. When you consider that Advocaat had 5 trophies out of 6 before O'Neill arrived and then and then won nothing for the year and a half after that it could be said that he had it easier too.

Although there are no trophies to compare against I do still think under Advocaat we were a better side than under McLeish, and Smith bar the 92/93 season.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
When you look back at the team Advocaat had at his disposal in the first couple of years, we really underachieved in Europe. On paper at least, the side he had was 10 times what we have now. And I was alluding to the fact that Advocaat only had to beat a couple of pretty poor Celtic teams at the start of his reign. Still, you can't knock it and history won't remember these details.

Back on-topic, another thing that puts me off McLeish is that he appears to be a bit of a yes-man for Murray. Of course Murray is his employer, but I wonder who's really been driving the Ferguson deal? I really hate to sound negative, and i'm still right behind the team.
 

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As you say Murray will be the driving force behind the deal. Souness probably knows Blackburn won't give him Ferguson directly so he can do it via Rangers :dielaugh:

Joking aside though I'm impressed that Bazza is wanting to come back. We miss a leader in the middle of the park and he would be that guy for me. I don't think any of the guys like Lovenkrands, Vignal, Namouchi, Arveladze, etc. who are prone to being lazy would get away with it if Bazza is on the park.

Back to McLeish. I'm right behind him too and can also see his shortcomings. I'm not being cruel here but If I was Murray I'd get McLeish to sit down with a good tactician and get some learning done. He obviously doesn't know as much as he thinks and could do with some teaching. If he set that against his man management skills then he'd do alright.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Why do tactics appear so simple to us mere fans? Is it so hard to analyse videos or whatever of opponents, identify strengths & weaknesses, and take the necessary steps. Knowing your best team and formation should also be a given. I don't think it's that difficult, but it really seems like it is for some managers.

Damn it, I want his job. There's no point in denying it any longer :mad:. All you have to do is tell your assistant to take the training, pick a formation, pick a team, and win every week. How hard is that? It's not as if Rangers don't have a divine right to win everything :stuckup:.
 

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I want it too :happy:

Can't be that difficult, can it? In Europe you play a 4-5-1 away from home and a 4-3-3 at home, forget about what the opposition are doing. Domestically you play whatever you want because it really doesn't matter. Preferably you choose one of the formations you use in Europe so that it becomes second nature to the players.

One thing you never do is start experimenting with new formations and unless you are playing a team who are way better than you don't change your formation to counter theirs.

Simple really. :shades:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
At least he wears a tie :stuckup:

Goes back to what you were saying in the banter thread I suppose chivo :rollani: :D.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
It's amazing what you can do with computer technology these days. You've clearly superimposed an image of St. Martin at a funeral (or court) in front of some faceless figures in green and white :D.

Anyway, this was a football topic, so if you want to open an Old Firm fashion thread do it in the Celtic forum. It could use a few posts now and then :finger:
 

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I know it could do with a few posts, but we've been too busy celbrating lately :howler: , If only you's had as many points as you have posts :finger:
 

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Bohemian Celtic said:
I know it could do with a few posts, but we've been too busy celbrating lately :howler: , If only you's had as many points as you have posts :finger:
We know the feeling. Winning an old firm match is great. Those 10 days in November when we won two of them was a time of celebration for us too. we still managed to post though. It's all gone quiet over there though, obviously not that much to talk about.

Keeping this on topic I'll go back to McLeish. One thing that does not help the team but I do like about McLeish is the way he conducts himself. Sunday was a good example. After the match he told it like it was concentrating on the football. He didn't feel the need to march Alex Rae up to the Rangers fans in a pathetic act of defiance after the abuse he received throughout the match and didn't feel the need to blame the other team for any Rangers player's misconduct. It was made all the easier right enough by the fact Celtic won because they had no need to lose the plot and spit the dummy under these circumstances.

As expected the Graham Spiers sports diary has decided not to carry on the fight against bigotry any longer. That's because Saint Martin, as he often refers to him, has decided not to make it an issue any more and that is also because after a Celtic win it is no longer an issue. We can say one thing at the very least about the Rangers manager- at least he accepts defeat with dignity and doesn't cry like a baby. Talkling of Spiers though he does actually provide a funny insight into how Saint Martin was put in his place on Sunday by Willie Young for his cry baby antics here.
 
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