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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Bilardo said that he could not say that he din't give a substance to a Brazilian player (Branco) to drink which caused him to be sleepy in the pitch. Maradona was the one that gave the drink to BRanco in the heat of Turin of the 90 WC and said: "go on drink it, drink it"... and Branco drinked it.

Maradona said a couple of years ago that their was something wrong in that game.

Branco after teh game (i saw on TV today) said that the drink affected his game.

One more sad story of Argentinian football.... and one more story of Maradona and his substances!!! :thmbdown:












Quarta, 19 de janeiro de 2005, 19h43 Atualizada às 19h53
CBF pretende denunciar Argentina à Fifa







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O secretário geral da Confederação Brasileira de Futebol (CBF), Marco Antonio Teixeira, afirmou na quarta-feira que a entidade encaminhará à Fifa uma denúncia contra o ex-técnico da seleção argentina Carlos Bilardo.
Em entrevista à revista Veintitrés, Bilardo indicou que foi preparada uma solução de água com drogas durante jogo da Argentina contra o Brasil na Copa do Mundo de 1990, na Itália. "Não digo que não aconteceu", disse o treinador.

Para o técnico do Brasil, Carlos Alberto Parreira, o incidente se torna ainda mais grave porque Bilardo é também médico.

"É uma coisa que tem que ser melhor apurada. É incrédulo, eu custo a acreditar que um treinador do gabarito do Bilardo, um médico... Se realmente for verdade, tem que ser apurado e levado para outras instâncias porque é uma coisa muito séria e antiética", disse o treinador.

"As conseqüências tem que se perguntar a juristas, a quem entende de regulamentos", acrescentou.

No dossiê, os brasileiros usarão depoimentos do lateral-esquerdo Branco, que levantou a suspeita à época. Ele tomou a "água" enquanto Diego Maradona recebia atendimento médico e disse ter se sentido sonolento.

"Eu tomei conhecimento das declarações através da imprensa. Trata-se de um fato de extrema gravidade... estamos preparando um dossiê, com informações da mídia, que será encaminhado na segunda-feira ao presidente (da Fifa, Joseph) Blatter, solicitando providências enérgicas", disse Teixeira na sede da CBF, no Rio de Janeiro.

Segundo a versão de Maradona a um programa de televisão argentina, em frente ao banco de reservas da seleção de seu país havia sido deixada uma garrafa com água adulterada.

A Argentina derrotou a seleção brasileira por 1 a 0, gol de Caniggia, nas oitavas-de-final da Copa e acabou vice-campeã do torneio após perder para a Alemanha na final.

Bilardo

A denúncia, de acordo com Teixeira, terá como alvo Bilardo e não a federação argentina.

"As declarações são dele e ele é quem tem que responder. Assim é que entendemos... Uma vez confirmadas as declarações pelo próprio Bilardo, pedimos à Fifa que tome medidas enérgicas sobre o assunto", afirmou.

O dirigente brasileiro não acredita que o fato de o presidente da Asssociação de Futebol Argentina, Julio Grondona, ser vice-presidente da Fifa possa atrapalhar as investigações.

"O presidente Grondona sempre tratou dos assuntos de futebol de forma descompromissada. Acho que ele mesmo terá interesse em apurar isso de forma vigorosa".

Teixeira disse que o caso tem que servir de exemplo, uma vez que uma das prioridades da Fifa é o jogo limpo. "A questão do fair play é hoje uma questão fundamental e é fundamental que as equipes joguem em igualdade de condição".
 

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Yeap Bilardo has a large history in this since player, and don't act like if you didn't knew it, please Ze, is wrong as hell, I won't have any problem to even take the second post, but please don't be that dumb to act like: argies this, that, for christ sake the first free of sin to throw the stone...btw for anyone who thinks football is a nice and justice paradise, please wake up..

You are arming a thred to bash, and from where are you standing? from where any country can stand?

The final thing is that usually people take it with Bilardo precisly because of his winning in anyway, I use to hate him, for many reasons, years have land better on him and he strangely has gain some sympathy for me, he is like a nice wacko now, but once he was one of the public persons I hate the most.

For the record, players are bought, managers are bought, laundry money is everywhere in football, a new sort of slavery with kids, drugs are in almost every player in high competence in every pro sport, etc..etc...

If your objective is to say all argies are lame, well done, and in many ways we are, but go and wash your hands before Pilato, and condemned the act, the person, but not whole countries....
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Fangio said:
Yeap Bilardo has a large history in this since player, and don't act like if you didn't knew it, please Ze, is wrong as hell, I won't have any problem to even take the second post, but please don't be that dumb to act like: argies this, that, for christ sake the first free of sin to throw the stone...btw for anyone who thinks football is a nice and justice paradise, please wake up..

You are arming a thred to bash, and from where are you standing? from where any country can stand?

The final thing is that usually people take it with Bilardo precisly because of his winning in anyway, I use to hate him, for many reasons, years have land better on him and he strangely has gain some sympathy for me, he is like a nice wacko now, but once he was one of the public persons I hate the most.

For the record, players are bought, managers are bought, laundry money is everywhere in football, a new sort of slavery with kids, drugs are in almost every player in high competence in every pro sport, etc..etc...

If your objective is to say all argies are lame, well done, and in many ways we are, but go and wash your hands before Pilato, and condemned the act, the person, but not whole countries....

I din't know it fangio!!
 

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Sorry Ze, I thought you knew it, the thing I was trying to remark is the way you are putting the facts, Bilardo has many things to respond, but your logic is:

Bilardo=Argentinian football as anything noble we made? isn't too far?, isn't too far to consider brazilians as neat as a white cloud?? just give your opinions about the fact
itself..the nature of cheating and wrong is a difuse line in the argentinian, mentallity anyway, you are more than right in that one.

Diego I inform you even TOLD the story tons of times, in fact he didn't knew at first so when he was going to drink, Galindez stop him and told him, so Maradona said, NO THIS IS WRONG!!....ehhh??? no way he even endorse it, and offer it..the brazilians realized something was wrong when Olaerticoechea was going to drink and Galindez or Diego stop him to do in it....

Is not a problem of argentinian football, is a problem of argentinian society, that even put black clouds whenever even mat be existed, but hazte la fama..y echate a dormir, the truth is that argie football is not:

River's, Argentinos Jr., Independiente totall lyirical football style
Is not all about running Boca..
Is not Menotti
Is not Bilardo
Is not Piojo Lopez
Is not Maradona
Is not the ingenious chants, colorfull masses
Is not assasins dress in fans
Is not millionaires
Is not the poorest
Is not Teutonics Batis
Is not Negritos Tevez
IS JUST EVERYTHING and even the opposites in every point I descripted.
The more extreme catenaccio Helenio Herrera, Cuper, Zubeldia...the pragmatics Bianchi, Pekerman...the lyricals Yudica, Menotti...the excentrics Bielsa, Bilardo...everything is here, from the most brave act of playing with the knee like a football ball, and an uña encarnada, making a prodigius assist, to try to dope the rivals, in the same game, the same person, that many times represents everyone here in their worse and more noble acts, we despise Maradona because reflects what we are and can't support, and denied, we admire him because he is what we will love to be...and never will....he is the reflect of a non existant society, where the more noble act, and the more outraegous lack of nobility, is possible in a fraction of a second, but always in a legalframework...emmmm stop what legal? whate frame?, in a non rules enviroment, and from where Maradona, and the majority of players come, even worse...but remember our rules, that by the way not much suitable to survive in a favela or villa...

You have your right to be mad, you have your right in seeing a long history of cheating in argentinian football (society)..as long there is a long history of nobility, and awesome talent...
The objaction I'm making is: if the purpose of the thread is too take your anger out, well is ok, but if it is to just bash argie football...well your are not even standing in the righteous part of the world.
Anyway about this particular case, who gives a shit from where you are standing to just claim in a right way this deserves a sanction, I'm with you, but is the approach you are using the ones that sound like saying a bit more than that, so there is important to know that the boomerang will return.
As I said I never believe the naturality that many players from that team tell this story, is incredible how they can of feel proud...I tell is pretty disgusting, pretty embarrasing, and is just plain wrong, but even not being Nostradamus, this thread, as Diego's photo one will end in: you do this..you did that...both not football, societies must mature some day, if not the more mature ones (not equal to good ones) will still eat us alive, and not because they are mean, just because we let them and we play the game of life with no clear rules, in that enviroment they just break our asses in an understandable way. Because we are careless, and with no even slightly sense of community...I take it further, well is because is a sign of a major problem and is because is going to get this kind of stuff as alwys in anendless stereotype, some hate, some no limit admiration, and beyond, just wanted to give my opionion before the storm, hope you are not mad and understand what I'm saying, not easy task btw as usuall to get my ideas, not because of being complex, bizarre and erratic are more accurate...
 

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Bilardo handed Branco the drink after Maradona assisted Caniggia. It was in stoppage time! The World Cup was OVER for the Brazucas.

You're killing me here Ze! :howler:

PS - Anyhow, Havelange got his revange in forcing the Mexican ref to give the game and Cup to the Germans who gratefully accepted the gift.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Fangio,

Just putting a football story in XT.... no need to make a hurricane out of a glass of water.

Now CBF is taking Bilardo to FIFA forhim to explain the facts better:)

Btw, we are not saying that because of that Argentina won. You won that day, end of story. The thing is that it is a pretty sickening thing to put sleeping medicines in a bottle of water and give it to an opposing team player. That is not normal in Brazil, and as fa as I know it has never been done in this land.


Loco,

Germany deserved the cup... had the best team and it was a matter of time before they scored. ANd I loved that Mexican ref's performance :):)

Remember that Romualdo Arppi Filho made arguably the best referring in w world cup final in 86!:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Former Argentina coach Carlos Bilardo, a man famous for his ruthless approach and gamesmanship, was in the middle of a row on Wednesday involving a bottle of water, Brazil and the 1990 World Cup.

Bilardo appeared to imply in an interview with a Buenos Aires magazine that Argentina offered Brazil's players a bottle of water which had been drugged with a tranquilliser as the South American rivals met in a 1990 World Cup tie.

"I'm not saying it didn't happen," the controversial coach known as Big Nose told the magazine Veintitres.

However, as Brazilians, believing that Bilardo had confirmed what they had long suspected, were calling for action to be taken, the coach later denied the episode in an interview with Brazil's Estado News Agency.

"Not this again," he was quoted as saying.

"I don't know anything about it," added Bilardo, who led Argentina to World Cup victory in 1986. "These magazines always put what they want."

"Since then, I've spoken to Falcao, Casagrande, Junior, Dunga, (Carlos Alberto) Parreira, (Luiz Felipe) Scolari .. and nobody said anything about it."

The incident ranks alongside Argentina's 6-0 win over Peru, which took them to the 1978 World Cup final on goal difference at Brazil's expense, as one of the great controversies in the tournament's history.

Brazil were dominating the second round match, which was played in stifling heat, when an Argentine player went down injured in the second half and the team doctors and physiotherapists came on to the pitch.

The Argentine players took advantage to drink some water and some of their opponents, including leftback Blanco, came over to share some.

Argentina, who went on to reach the final, sneaked a late breakaway goal to win 1-0. Two days afterwards, Branco said that he had felt dizzy after drinking the water.

Brazilian Football Confederation (CBF) general secretary Marco Antonio Teixeira said: "This is an extremely serious fact .. we're preparing a dossier."

Brazil's current coach Carlos Alberto Parreira said he found the story difficult to believe but said the incident should be investigated.

"It's something that needs to be better looked into," he told reporters. "I find it difficult to believe that a coach of Bilardo's standing (should be involved)."
 

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It sounded that bad the way you posted, and you know how this thread can end, anyawy let's go another part, and I repeat I think they should take out our silver medal, I wlaways thought that way.

Ze, isn't a bit too much Corinthians???? pal, are they going to have a decent pre season training? because if not, they will have to find the team rolling and that is hard, and the noise of the fall will be heard in Siberia, have you any at lest minor fear of this? I will in your shoes...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Fangio,

I don''t think they should strip the silver medal. However, I think they should ban Bilardo & the guy that mixed teh stuff in the water for a while.


No pre-season training... the team will be rolling in the tournament. First we have the Paulistao, then we have teh Brasileirao which is what it really matters!:)

Then next year we fight for our dream... the LIBERTADORES!! Only trophy that is missing from our illustrious trophy cabinet :)
 

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Let me ask one question related to this topic, since some people seem to think that the topic is about Maradona's quality as a player. If your NT was playing a World Cup match and the opposing team's staff gave drugged water to your team's players, what would YOU think about it? Would you think it was an acceptable "part of the game"? I'm sincerely curious. What would you think if another team gave drugged water to the Argentinean NT? Is it only OK when Argentineans do it to other nations, and dishonest if done against YOUR team?
Loco said:
Bilardo handed Branco the drink after Maradona assisted Caniggia. It was in stoppage time! The World Cup was OVER for the Brazucas.
No, sorry to burst your bubble. Branco was given the drugged water around the 40th minute, before the first half had ended; and Argentina's goal was at the 81st minute of the game... but of course, the precise moment when he was given the drugged water is completely irrelevant. The problem lies in the very act of intentionally drugging your opponents. It's CHEATING, pure and simple.

I understand that when we talk about 'cheating' Maradonut immediately comes to mind, but his quality as a player is not the issue here. Is anyone willing to discuss the original topic – or do you prefer to avoid the subject altogether and just post unrelated "Maradona is the football King" nonsense, since it's impossible to defend Bilardo's actions? :rollani:
 

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I understand that when we talk about 'cheating' Maradonut immediately comes to mind, but his quality as a player is not the issue here. Is anyone willing to discuss the original topic – or do you prefer to avoid the subject altogether and just post unrelated "Maradona is the football King" nonsense, since it's impossible to defend Bilardo's actions?
So why you avoid my post G, this thread is uselles as the Maradona pick if its oriented to only an endless steriotype discussion, I will hate to turn this in bashing thread for any purpose...
 

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Fangio said:
So why you avoid my post G, this thread is uselles as the Maradona pick if its oriented to only an endless steriotype discussion, I will hate to turn this in bashing thread for any purpose...
I don't want to turn this into an attack on Argentina. After all, it's not like the decision to drug the water and offer it to the opposition was approved by a nationalwide poll – so the general Argentinean population has nothing to do with this and can't be blamed for it. This isn't about Argentina or its citizens, it's about something Bilardo (and some professionals who surrounded him) did in the 1990 WC.

This can be an interesting thread if we avoid to generalize this into an "Argentineans are evil" silliness. Extending Bilardo's dishonesty to all Argentineans would be as ridiculous and unfair as assuming that all US citizens are lying adulterers just because Bill Clinton is one.
 

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Twayka said:
Maradona is the greatest player the world will ever witness.
You change you mind very fast. You said a couple of months ago henry was the best player the world has ever seen. I am not bashing you, I am just saying what you wrote and I will just state my opinion, feel free to disagree.

Pele is the greatest player ever. Seriously, What have you seen of Pele's career? I bet you have only seen that goal in 58 against Sweden and his moments in the 70 wc. I bet you never saw a single video of Pele playing in the 60's when he was destroying ,with Santos, European Champions like Inter, Benfica. In fact, People use two arguments two put Pele down. They say he never played in Europe and that it was so easy to play football back at that time. Let's talk about these two arguments.
First Pele never played in a European team. He never did, but Did you know Santos used to beat the crap out of European Champions? 5 x 2 against Eusebio's Benfica in Portugal (3 goals form Pele). beat milan 2 times out of three games (Santos lost the game in Milan's home but Pele scored 2 goals). Beat Benfica again 4 x 1 (Pele scored onr) and Inter 4x1 (pele scored one goal) in 66. In fact, Pele played almost 100 games agains European team and scored a goal per game, the same average he had in Brasil. And please, also remember that the brazilian league was probably the best in the world that time because almost no one that time went to europe. Just imagine today the brazilian league with Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Adriano, Ronaldinho, Kaka,Cafu, Roberto Carlos, batista, Emerson and many, many others playing here instead of europe. The fact is that if you take brazilians and argentinean from european teams and libertadores becomes better than the CL.
Now Lets go to the second argument. Why was it so easy to score back in Pele days and know one came close to his record of goals? In fact, the one that came close in the amount of goals is Romario that had his great moments in the late 80's and 90's and when it was so hard to score as most of you guys say.
And I have also seen a lot of guys here saying that Pele was only a good scorer and that he was a striker. For once and for all, Pele was not a striker, he was an AM who was a great scorer and a great playmaker as well. You may ask: "How was he an AM if he scored all those goals?" It is easy, he was that good. ;)
 

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brasileiro said:
And I have also seen a lot of guys here saying that Pele was only a good scorer and that he was a striker. For once and for all, Pele was not a striker, he was an AM who was a great scorer and a great playmaker as well. You may ask: "How was he an AM if he scored all those goals?" It is easy, he was that good. ;)
Pele said himself that he was a striker,so you are not telling the truth.
 
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