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Discussion Starter #1
this is also related to Turkish football in general so I'm posting it here. As you al know, the actions and the calls of the referee during the BJK-Samsun game was unjust-the referee overlooked Samsun's fouls and handed out Red cards to Besiktas like people hand out candy to kids on halloween. He provoked our players, and caused irrepairable damage in the end.


THis is what Lucescu hasd to say:

" "CÝDDÝ CÝDDÝ ÝSTÝFA ETMEYÝ DÜÞÜNÜYORUM. BU ÜLKEYÝ ARTIK TERKETMEK ÝSTÝYORUM. BUGÜN YAÞADIÐIM OLAYLARIN BENZERÝNÝ GALATASARAY'DA ÇALIÞIRKEN DE YAÞAMIÞTIM. HAKEDÝYORSANIZ KAZANMALISIN. BÝZÝ DURDURMAK ÝSTEMELERÝNÝ ANLAMIYORUM. MADEM ÖYLE; BÝZE DOÐRU DÜRÜST DAVRANSINLAR. BÝZE KAÇ PUAN KAYBETMEMÝZ GEREKTÝÐÝ SÖYLENSÝN BÝZ DE ONA GÖRE PUAN KAYBEDELÝM. HADÝ GELÝN SIFIRDAN BAÞLAYALIM. HÝÇ OLMAZSA BÝZE KARÞI DÜRÜST OLUNSUN. ÞARTLAR EÞÝT OLMALI, KURALLARA ONA GÖRE UYULMALI. BÝZ ANCAK SAYISAL ÜSTÜNLÜÐÜMÜZÜ KAYBEDERSEK YENÝLÝRÝZ. OYUNCULARIM AÞAÐILANMAYA DAYANAMADI VE MAÇA KENDÝLERÝ SON NOKTAYI KOYDULAR."

quick Translation:

I am seriously considering resigning and leave this country for good. I had lived through similar events to the ones I witnessed today while I was at gtalatasaray. A team should be able to win if they deserve it. I don't understand why they would want to try to stop us. If that's the case, then they should at least treat us right. They should tell us how many points they want us to lose, and we'll lose points accordingly...
 

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D-lite said:
this is also related to Turkish football in general so I'm posting it here. As you al know, the actions and the calls of the referee during the BJK-Samsun game was unjust-the referee overlooked Samsun's fouls and handed out Red cards to Besiktas like people hand out candy to kids on halloween. He provoked our players, and caused irrepairable damage in the end.


THis is what Lucescu hasd to say:

" "CÝDDÝ CÝDDÝ ÝSTÝFA ETMEYÝ DÜÞÜNÜYORUM. BU ÜLKEYÝ ARTIK TERKETMEK ÝSTÝYORUM. BUGÜN YAÞADIÐIM OLAYLARIN BENZERÝNÝ GALATASARAY'DA ÇALIÞIRKEN DE YAÞAMIÞTIM. HAKEDÝYORSANIZ KAZANMALISIN. BÝZÝ DURDURMAK ÝSTEMELERÝNÝ ANLAMIYORUM. MADEM ÖYLE; BÝZE DOÐRU DÜRÜST DAVRANSINLAR. BÝZE KAÇ PUAN KAYBETMEMÝZ GEREKTÝÐÝ SÖYLENSÝN BÝZ DE ONA GÖRE PUAN KAYBEDELÝM. HADÝ GELÝN SIFIRDAN BAÞLAYALIM. HÝÇ OLMAZSA BÝZE KARÞI DÜRÜST OLUNSUN. ÞARTLAR EÞÝT OLMALI, KURALLARA ONA GÖRE UYULMALI. BÝZ ANCAK SAYISAL ÜSTÜNLÜÐÜMÜZÜ KAYBEDERSEK YENÝLÝRÝZ. OYUNCULARIM AÞAÐILANMAYA DAYANAMADI VE MAÇA KENDÝLERÝ SON NOKTAYI KOYDULAR."

quick Translation:

I am seriously considering resigning and leave this country for good. I had lived through similar events to the ones I witnessed today while I was at gtalatasaray. A team should be able to win if they deserve it. I don't understand why they would want to try to stop us. If that's the case, then they should at least treat us right. They should tell us how many points they want us to lose, and we'll lose points accordingly...

Yolu Acik Olsun...


He says others are treating besiktas unfair...

He wanted the federation to wipe out 3 of our points we earned after beating rize 4-1...
 

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Romania is waiting with open arms! :hopefull: :D
 

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D-lite said:

quick Translation:

I am seriously considering resigning and leave this country for good. I had lived through similar events to the ones I witnessed today while I was at gtalatasaray. A team should be able to win if they deserve it. I don't understand why they would want to try to stop us. If that's the case, then they should at least treat us right. They should tell us how many points they want us to lose, and we'll lose points accordingly...
This is a typical Luce statement....just pathetic. Reminds me of Hagi's statement when he was banned for 6 ganes for spitting on a ref and he threatened to leave GS and thereby threat GS's Uefa campaihn ( i think) that season. TFF then had no other choice to reduce Hagi's punishment to 2 or 3 games.

Luce is trying to do the same...and its pathetic....him crying like a baby is making me lose all respect for him because he is a good coach. But he has to become a man and to learn to take defeats....be a man and take it on the chin.

Not by crying like a baby.....threatening to leave Türkiye....do you think we Turks give a damn?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I certainly give a damn. I think today was a disgrace, the referee made calls which were unbelievable, and Luce has every right to complain.
For someone who isn't turkish and who isn't used to Turkish ref's-all of this might truely become unbearable. In the end, he has every right to complain because his team was massacred by a ref today.

BAFLI-you got awarded 3 points thanks to the mistake of a ref, and we got robbed, he is right.
 

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D-lite said:
I certainly give a damn. I think today was a disgrace, the referee made calls which were unbelievable, and Luce has every right to complain.
For someone who isn't turkish and who isn't used to Turkish ref's-all of this might truely become unbearable. In the end, he has every right to complain because his team was massacred by a ref today.

BAFLI-you got awarded 3 points thanks to the mistake of a ref, and we got robbed, he is right.
How were we awarded 3 points by the refs?... we had to play Rize again.. we earnt our 3 points...

How were you robbed 3 points... Your team were an absolute disgrace...

The point difference should only be 2 points...;) but I don't think Ulusoy has the guts to deduct 3 points from you.

From what I know, The rule is:
1) The score is 3-0 if the other team scores 3 or below. However, as Samsun scored 4, the score would be 4-0.
2) A team who loses by getting five players sent of are deducted 3 pionts. Just the same as a team who doesn't turn up for a match, also get 3 points deducted.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
BAFLI said:
How were you robbed 3 points... Your team were an absolute disgrace...

The point difference should only be 2 points...;) but I don't think Ulusoy has the guts to deduct 3 points from you.

1-Three points will be deducted unfortunately, because the TFF will act as if they're 'objective'.

Regardless, BAFLI, don't ever call Besiktas a 'disgrace' on a Besiktas board ok? I don't want to warn you or tell you to watch your words..
I'm assuming you mean no harm for the sake of your other Fener buddies on this board whom I respect.
 

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BAFLI said:
How were we awarded 3 points by the refs?... we had to play Rize again.. we earnt our 3 points...

If the referee hadn't made a mistake you would only have had a draw.
You have to admit that you were lucky that the referee made a mistake in the Rize match.
 

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Come on bros....no need to get ungly. (and that is coming from me)

Hasan...are you still in here.....its time for your Lucozade!
 

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I saw all the red cards, and I'll go through them one by one..

1. Zago. He got a stupid yellow card for a needless challenge, and didn't learn his lesson. 2 minutes later, he nearly snapped the ankle of the Samsunspor player.
2. Ibrahim. The ball is long gone, and he swings a half punch, half slap at the back of the Samsunspor player's head RIGHT INFRONT OF THE REFEREE..
3. Ahmet Yildirim. He comes in late and swings a high kick directly at Cesar's left leg while Cesar's in mid-air. The ball was long gone, and the impact of Ahmet's kick can be seen on the replays..
4. Pancu. Already on a yellow, he makes a later than late challenge, there's no ball and only frustration and/or the intentions to injure the Samsunspor player.
5. Ilhan. Already on a yellow as well, he comes in about 5 seconds too late and takes out the legs of the Samsunspor player.

I'm not even going to comment on any of them, or on anyone else, because it's there for all to see..
 

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I didn't see the game, but all these yellow cards .. sounds like the ref throwing cards left and right .. and losing control of the game .. then trying to control a bunch of angry men by giving them more cards .. red this time ) ... the way I know turks .. that doesn't quite work doesn't it ?

I find it hard to believe EVERY single card was deserved without even looking at the game ... there are simply too many.

Lucescu can be rash with his words, but it's always based on something, he's not the kind that invents reasons to get angry about.

If this was south america, we it would have beem the referee chased around by the team and clibing the fence :)
Damn funny .. I'll have to see the replays from this game .. are they online?
 

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I don't know of anywhere you can find it, but my opinion on it is that all 5 red cards where deserved..

The TRT match analysts Zeki Çol and (something) Urundul couldn't stop praising the referee's handling of the match..

They where also disgusted at Lucescu's comments after the game, and full of praise for Samsunspor players and officials alike who didn't let any of it get to them..

One thinks that it's no co-incidence that Lucescu holds a record of receiving 9 red cards in 2 matches (4 Galatasaray players sent off under his control against Fenerbahçe, and now this match).. And after both matches his comments where almost exactly the same..
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Tolga the problem is that there is no consistency in the refereeing of the turkish league.

If Pancu deserved a red, or if Ahmet Yildirim desreved a red, then so did Tuncay when he hacked Cordoba in the BJK-Fener game.

What Tuncay did there was 10 times worse than any of this. Not that he did it on purpose-but does that matter? should referee's have to decide on intent as well-because that's what the ref today went by. He assumed he knew the intentions of Ahmet yildirim and pancu and showed them a red. The fact of the matter is that the referee didn't know how to handle this match. He made a mistake from the start by giving Giunti a yellow card in a position that totally unwarranted such a decision. He didn't call fouls on Besiktas players, yet he gave out red cards like a maniac against us. by doing so, he contributed to the tension in the game.

Bulent from Gala is 10 times more aggressive of a player than Zago, but why does he not get red carded as much??? Perhaps because a certain TV commentator doesn't keep on claiming he deserves to be thrown out in everygame on Prime-time television?
There is something fundamentally flawed in all of this.

As for Ahmet yildirims card-come on, if he deserved a card there then why did the ref also give Cesar a yellow card in that position too?

besides, Ahmet didn't even touch the player, if referees are going to give out red cards for motions in thin air, they should tell the player sso they're informed and know how to act.

Also keep in mind that Samsuns first goal was an offside and there was a foul on Pancu previous to that. How anyone can congratulate this referee is beyond me, unless those congratulating him (without even questioning the positions they immediately claimed he referee'd a 'perfect' game-such unanimous decisions are unheard of in the turkish media!) wanted to put a stop to besiktas's unbeaten streak that is. Didn't every sports commentator in the nation claim there was no 'thrill' left in the league anymore because besiktas was unstoppable?

Well there you have it-our head on a platter. What all the teams in the turkish league couldn't do (defeat us) a referee managed to do. And now everyone is 'objectively' happy.

Anyone want any Kina?:D
 

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Bro, how can you say that Samsun's first goal was an offside....that is just lame bro....:D

You can clearly see that he starts from his own half........

You are also saying that what everyone else has done is like 10 times worse than what Besiktas players have done....isnt that like being.....10 times too biased!!!:D :tongue:

And you are talking about consistency........bro dont tell me you are that naive to believe that all the refs will be the same on every single game and that their calls will never differ from each other.

You make it sound like there has been consistency before but when it comes to Besiktas everything turns upide down. Bro, the league has always been like this....our refs are the worst in europe (not saying Cm Papila was bad in this game).

But to start blame on inconsistency now is not apprpopriate imo....

I could give you tons of examples where Fenerbahce have been treated really bad by the refs.

But the thing is that whenever the 3 big clubs are being "unfairly" treaten we make up conspiracy theories because we are not used to getting 4-5 red cards.....but if it had been the other way around....that is a smaller team getting those red cards it would have been "normal" right?

In a way i have to give credit to Cem Papila for having the balls to give Besiktas red cards after the 2nd red....normally our refs would stop handing red cards to the bigger teams after the second!

p.s. i know its easier to talk about this when its about another team and not your own but i hope i would have felt the same 2-3 days after the game....:tongue:
 

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Serkan was onside, both because he was in his own half, and because the last man was still keeping him a metre onside..
The man coming back was in an offside position, but passively.. The passive offside rule that was highlighted extensively before WC94 ;)

The foul on Pancu.... Which foul?
The one where he and the Samsun player where shoulder to shoulder, and Pancu was the one who actually pulled the Samsun player to the ground?

From the replays I saw on the Ahmet Yildirim incident, he clearly whacks his left leg...
The guy's right leg was in the air, and his left foot barely making contact with the floor... Then Ahmet comes in and smacks him, and his left foot flings up and makes a right angle to his body! Come on, a gymnast can't even mvoe their leg into that position so quickly!

And let me remind you.. Your club is the one who was repeatedly stating that the league has lost it's flavour..
Your club was the one which boldly stated that they can't help it if their too good for Turkey.. You'll only make enemies saying something as stupid as that ;)

But I do understand your frustrations because it is your team..
 

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Cengo and Tolga - great points. Nothing else left to say ;)

However, it is interesting to see the stance taken by those who attacked Fener's board for complaining about referee decisions earlier in the season. Back then we were told that Besiktas didn't partake in such debates and accepted that referees can make mistakes (I am not saying that Cem Papila made any..)
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I have already expressed my ideas and thoughts on the matter, there's no point in arguing in cricles. I know this benefits Fenerbahce the most so I wouldn't have expected any other reponse from you ;)

The fact of the matter is, Besiktas was massacred by a referee and no one has the right to do that.. Jemster, you have the guts to criticize me while you're doing exactly the same at the moment.

I clearly stated to Cenk, who made a similar argument on another thread, (see how the debate goes round and round?) in such a manner, however 5 red cards were shown-a first in Besiktas's history and perhaps the history of the Turkish league as well.

Of course this makes you happy since a referee helped reduce the point differential. ;)

There is clearly a problem here. People who brush over Tuncay sliding into Cordoba are so ready to claim all the red cards were deserved. None of those situations were any worse than what happened to Cordoba.

And it's interesting to see, for the first time in the Turkish league, everyone (other than Besiktas fans and other objective writers/critics) agree unanimously about what a 'great' match Papila referee'd.

Such consensus had NEVER been reached before. interesting ;)
 

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I heard that Ilie was getting ready to come in the game and then he could not get in because Ilhan got a red...Poor Ilie :)...
although Ilhan probably did him a favour, he was lucky he did not play in such game
 
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