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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Madrid fans,,....
some time u fans really piss me off.....
look o.k Raul is a great player but hey, he aint no way the class of our Andri Shevchenko.....
Shevchenko is faster, can dribble and finish better than Raul, sorry but that is the plain truth. Let me remind u fans then, who are most probably gonna say ...yeh Raul is the better player....
Champions League 1998/1999... I wonder who scored the 3 goals to knock you out of europe......

u tell me madrid fans....

make sure u answer my question and then talk about mr gonzalez........
 

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Welcome Diavolo Aroon! :)
Well, Raul or Sheva?That's a tough call even for a true milanista that i am!But ok, you want to do a comparaison?
Lets do it!
Technically speaking they're both way above average but Raul is i'm afraid better than ANY forward in the world on that area.
However, Sheva is a much better goalscorer than ANY other forward in the world!
In the past seasons, with that great side of Dynamo Kyev he made some REAL havoc!A hat trick at the Nou Camp on a 4-1 away win against Barca and then last year, he was the Pichichi of the CL scoring 3 goals against a certain Real...
and this season, for his first year in the Serie A finished first overall in front of monsters of the likes of Batigol, Crespo and co!and his only 24!!!and 2 hat-tricks and one against the mighty Lazio at Rome!in a game out of this world 4-4!
They're both the 2 best forwards of the world
but if i were to chose one, i would chose Raul... as being his partner in Milan!Imagine a Raul - Sheva attack!That duo would score easily 55 to 60 goals a season and win every scudetto and CL!Well, its ok to dream, but with Sanz, and Berlusca being good friends, you never know! :)

Forza Magico Milan!
Hala Madrid!
Allez Les Bleus!
Arriba Espana!

The world will be Bleu Blanc Rouge...Again!
 
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Discussion Starter #3
I don't remember anyone in the forum specifically saying Raul is better than Schevchenko. But, just to piss you off more, I'm gonna say it now...RAUL IS BETTER THAN SCHEVCHENKO.

Schevchenko has more pace and better dribbling. But does he have Raul's close-control, technique and passing? Schevchenko was topscorer in Serie A this year. Raul was topscorer in La Liga last year...as a support striker and with not more then three penalties if I remember correctly.

Aint no way in the class of Andri Schevchenko? BS. Schevchenko a better finisher? Arguable.

I hold Schevchenko in very high regard; in fact, he's the only player in Milan besides Maldini worth admiring (pissing you off again! :) ), but Raul is definitely in his class if not above.

I suggest you watch Raul more because from what you are saying you obviously know zilch about him.
 

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There's no point of arguing here!
Sheva is the best forward in Serie A and Raul in La Liga!
And they are the 2 best forwards in the world!
One week is one and the next one, the other one!But generally speaking they're the 2 best forwards in the world!Period!

Forza Magico Milan!
Hala Madrid!
Allez Les Bleus!
Arriba Espana!

Forza Sheva!
Forza Raul!
 

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Dear dwMB, there are more players worth admiring in Milan than just San Paolo and The Tzar!
I believe that Zorro Boban and Leonardo, on their day can do wonders and provocate HAVOC in ANY defence!Same for Abbiatti, he's like our Casillas!
I agree that nowadays, Milan does not have many players worth admiring as before, but that will definitely change!Just see next year Milan with Trezeguet, Riquelme, Djetou,
Denilson(?), Figo (?), ...
Forza Magico Milan!
Hala Madrid!
Allez Les Bleus!
Arriba Espana!

The world will be Rossonero...again!!!!
 
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Discussion Starter #6
I was just ticked at Aroon belittling Raul when he's probably barely watched him play. I am under that impression because anyone who's watched Raul, even Barca fans, would acknowledge that Raul is one of the world's premier talents. Anyway, as you said they're the 2 best forwards in the world. One may be better in one week and the other the next. Let's just leave it at that.

And I was kidding about Schevy and Maldini being the only players worth admiring in Milan. Didn't you notice the smiley? Boban, Leonardo and Abbiati can indeed be very good, not to mention Serginho when he's on song, Ambrosini, and young Coloccini (future star defender).
 

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You forget that Raul is not just a simple striker who only score goals. He's also great at creating chances for he's team players. For example look at the latest Real Madrid vs. Bayern Munich game in Spain. Real Madrid win 2-0 and Raul have two assits.

This is the main difference between Shevchenko and Raul. Shevchenko maybe score more goals but he's not as good in creating chances as Raul.

A good way to compare two players is to ask you self would you trade my player with your player. I would certainly not trade Raul for Shevchenko.

By the way there's no doubt that Shevchenko is a great player but it's tough to compare him with the best.

Hala Madrid
 

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Shevhcenko is not the best forward in Seria A.Batistuta and Crespo are better.Sure he is impressive but too incosistent.He may score 4 goals in one and game and then no score for 3 weeks in a row.Crespo and Batigol have been scoring week in,week out.Besides,many of Sheva's goals were simply tap ins and penalties unlike Crespo's who has to create his chances.This of course doesnt take anything away from Sheva but the truth has to be said.Vieri is better as well.

Raul Vs Shevchenko? there is practically no comparison.Raul is better not only because he can do everything better than Shevchenko but also because he is such a proven player at such a young age.

------------------
Any given Sunday,you either win or loose.That's FOOTBALL...
 

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Interesting topic this is. First I would like to tell you Aroon that this place is not for lame dudes like you. We don't want a war here :) I am glad San Siro said what he did, and this has put him very high in my eyes. I know Sheva is now a trademark to Milan, so saying someone is better than him is quite something. Congrats for being objective San Siro! :) I don't know if I'd be capable of saying someone is better then Raul ;)

Now about the two: I agree they are by far the best strikers in each of their leagues, ONLY...
Raul is indeed by far the best in the Primera. Guys like Hasselbaink and Makaay are one class lower then he.
Shevchenko is IMO together with Amoroso the best striker in Italy, but not far behind is Crespo, Mijatovic and perhaps Vieri. I admit the Serie A has a bigger amount of really world class strikers and that's the reason for it.

Now to compare them head to head:
Technique - Raul vastly superior in this category. IMO he and perhaps a couple of Brazilians are the best technichal players in the world right now
Dribbling - both are equal here. Raul canreally pull of stunning moves, so can Shevy.
Finishing - also equal. Both can be hunters of the penalty area.

One thing we HAVE to remember though is Raul scored 25 goals last season (3 penalties), playing in support!!! WOW!
Shevchenko got 24 this year, and something like 8 were from the spot. The rest were primarily tap ins ;)

On this comaprison I unfortunately have to concl;ude Raul is the better player, but I also agree both are in the absolute top! World class all the way...only Raul a bit better :)

WORLDS TOP 5:

1 Raul
2 Figo
3 Zidane
4 Veron
5 Shevchenko? (perhaps)

That's my opinion anyway :)
 
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Discussion Starter #10
If I were to choose THE BEST XI for the season 99/2000 I'd probably include both Raul & Sheva. But... c'mon, guys... IMO it's not serious to make such bold statements that one is better than another, or both are better than the rest. Both are great players, but that doesn't mean there are no other great forwards in the world. There are at least 20 forwards in the same class or above, but not all of them had the same luck with injuries this past year. When I say ABOVE I mean forwards who've played on the very top level not for 2-3 years like R&S, but for 10! like Romario & Batistuta, players who have seen it all.

P.S. Amo, I disagree with you though about Vieri. I think Sheva is more skillful and more unique. But, again, this is just my opinion.
 

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Hehe, Shevchenko is for his first year in Italy, he became a goal scorer and people started criticizing him. How well did Hernan do in his first year. As about the penalties, Sheva made most of them, and if the defenders were not so harsh he could have scored more. Plus don't forget Boban got an injury (he took many penalties as well), and Andrij scored regularly while he was playing. When he was left with a bunch of defensive midfielders and a "tree" (Bie..shalala) he menaged to keep in the first place among the goal scorers, so leave him BE. Bati had Rui Costa, Crespo had Fuser and Amoroso, and Sheva was left alone, and he was FIRST. And guys don't forget in Italy the defenders are far better than in Spain.
As about the technique, Labas, I disagree. Shevchenko was making fun of every non Italian defender and with a player like Nesta (in Rome), and if he was in Spain he would have shown more.
Dribble- Raul never did what Shevchenko did to Barca defenders, but his dribble is in a shorter area, while Shevchenko prefers to lead the ball long (he showed some short dribble against Chelsea).
Finishing- If Raul played in Italy we could have had more to compare (i.e. R9 scored manby goals in Spain and yet he could not be a top goal scorer in Seria A).
Passing- Shevchenko is not counted to organize the attacks as Raul is so in that case Raul is better, though Shevchenko made some good passes on goal.
Total- I think both players are very good, and Raul is a little bit better in means of experience in a better league. Yet Shevchenko will improve and would be of serious challenge (don't forget he begins only his second year in Italy).
As about the best forward in Italy, I think Crespo and Shevchenko had great performances this year and it'd be unfair if one of them is prefered to the other. They are the two best forwards for me in Seria A. And yet labas is right the rest are not far behind. Shevchenko needs several more years to become a real leader of the team like Crespo (and partially Raul).
Forza Milan!

[This message has been edited by giani_82 (edited 24-05-2000).]
 

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Welcome Giani_82 amico Diavolo!Come stai?
I totally agree with what you said!Sheva was completely left alone once Zorro got injured and that **** -head of Zac refused to use Leonardo, so all he had was a bunch of defensive midfielders and a "tree", (Biershi.t) so and even beside all this, in the the toughest league of the world, he still managed to finish 1!A thing that the likes of Zico, Maradona, Platini, Gullit, and the Great MVB, Batigol, Ronaldo, Crespo, Vieri and other world class players did not manage!Finishing the best goal scorer in Serie A in his first year!Don't forget that!
And believe me, his goals were not only tap-ins!Some of them were breath-taking!Remember his goal againt Bari, taking the ball in his own half, and then resisting to 4 players of the Bari team to score!!!A goal a la Baggio or ala Maradona or ala Ronaldo!!!If Sheva was playing in La Liga in a great talented team like Real, he would score 30 to 35 goals easily!
Labas, thanks for your compliments! :)
But don't you think that your comparaison is a little bit too much biased toward the great Raul? :)Cant you make that comparaison while being objective?We all know you LOVE and WORSHIP Raul, but can you try to be OBJECTIVE?
Raul "vastly" superior to Sheva in technics??
YOu must be kidding my friend!!!Sheva is a wonderful technician!If you can't find any tape of his Serie A goals and actions, why dont you go back one year in time and take a look at last year's CL Dynamo Kyev-Real 1/4 finals?Go and ask Hierro and his friends of the Merengue defence if Sheva is not technically loaded? :)They will tell you... :)
As far as technics are concerned, the best and most technical player is Zidane!It is amazing what he does with the ball!!!How about Zorro, Leonardo, San Paolo, Redondo, Figo, Denilson,Giggs,Ginola?They rock with the ball!Have you seen these guys with the ball Labas? :)I really hope so, because otherwise you're missing something big! :)
Vieri don't even come close to Raul and Sheva!He is the typical British forward ala Bierhoff!
Tall, powerful, basic technics, but consistent goal scorer!
So,when you (people in general :) ), please be objective!Thanks! :) :) :)

Forza Magico Milan!
Hala Madrid!
Allez Les Bleus!
Arriba Espana!

Forza Sheva!
Forza Raul!Tomorrow show the world what you can do!And bring back that 8th CL to Madrid!
HALA MADRID!

The world will be ...Rossonero...Again!
 

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Although I was never a big admirer of the "soviet" school, I think Sheva is a massive player (shame he plays for Milan). Those of you that were following last year's ChL should have known that already, before his Serie A "career".

I also have a very high esteem for Sergei Rebrov that has just made a move to Tottenham.

I don't think that any of these players is Raul though.
 

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Ciao San Siro! :) I've not seen your posts in a while, and now I find you here (heh, I know you love RM), but come more often to Milan forums. :)
Hala, have any Milan fan offended you? Or you just can't forget one result 5:0 ten years ago. But yeah you are right Shevchenko performed briliantly not only in the last year in CL, but even in the previous one, so it's no surprize he joined a team like Milan. May be we are not in our best shape right now, but the truth is we had a good first half of the season (while you were in a bad shape), and then the things changed after Boban was out.
Forza Milan!
 

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It was not only the 5-0, but the fact that you threw us out of the Champions' Cup 2 years in a row. What I also can't get over is our bad luck, being called to play against you before the final not once but twice, if it had been the final, it was only one game, anything could have happened.
The fact remains that at the time we were the best team in Europe, except only for yours. AND THAT'S WHAT I REALLY CAN'T GET OVER.
Nothing personal with all you guys, but I have hated your team ever since and I really gloated in your Gala defeat this year. Not that you'd ever want guys like me as your supporters.... hehehe
 

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Heh, I liked Real (not that I hate you now) back then, and especially Michel (he's still my favorite Spaniard), and you are right you were the second best team in the world. It's pity both of the teams happened at one time. But anyway, now you have Raul and Roberto Carlos and you are again in the final, so you are partially compensated.
 

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Ok, maybe I haven't been totally objective :) What I meant with Raul was, he is just so ELEGANT with the ball. There is really no other player in the world that plays with such finess. His technique is IMO still better then Shevchenko, but that's not my point. What I mean is when you see Raul with the ball, you just know this is an awesome player. He moves with such grace, finesse and elegance - it's really wonderful to watch and IMO there really is no other player like this in the world. I agree Denilson may have better tricks and that may be also called better technique, but he lacks the genuine feel for the ball. By this I mean, let's say the goal against Manure - if you have a chance to see it again, just look ho he takes the ball on his back heel, and then slowly takes it past Silvestre and nails it perfectly into the corner. I have it on my MediaPlayer and it's really a treat.

About Sheva - I live in Poland, so we know a lot about this guy and I remember all of his performances in Dynamo Kiev and I agree he's great, but like I said he lacks that elegance. Still he's gonna be the FIFA World Player some day, that I'm sure of :) (if Raul let's him sneak in, that one time ;))
 

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This is a pointless debate.
Raul is an old-fashioned style support man and Shevchenko is an old-fashioned style striker.
What Raul has in finness and technique, Shevchenko makes up for in pace, positioning and movement off the ball. They are more of a partnership than equals if you see my point.
BTW, Figo is not going to go to Milan, so it really is a useless rumour to even mention.
(this really sets me up for embarrassment now if he goes. hehe :) )
And i actually think that Denilson is the most technically gifted player i have ever seen. But he is almost more of a circus act than a proffessional footballer, don't you think? lol
Well, i'd pay to watch him any day. :)
It's like he plays for the pure joy of entertaining and trying new things rather than the cynical pursuit of success.
(although in saying that i'm sure he plays also for the hefty number of "0"s in his salary. hehe )
 

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Haha, Milan first met Real in the 1/2 in 89 1-1 at the Bernabeu (with another out of this world goal by MVB! and another one perfectly valid refused injustly :( ) and 5-0 at the San Siro! and the next year it was in the 1/8 finals (2-0 at the San Siro I still remember that game the Real Keeper made the match of his life, i think it was Paco Buyo, a great Real legend, otherwise it could have easily been another 5 or 6-0! and 0-1 in Madrid!)
But Hala, you must be kidding that at that time (late 80's Real was the best team in Europe!!! Milan at that time was UNSTOPPABLE and probably one of the 10 best teams ever in the history of football!!!Please be objective!I agree that Real were strong but Milan was an extraterrestrial team!This was the team of Imortals, the Invincibles!The True Magico Milan!The True Diavolo!
The likes of the same level of the Real of Di Stefano in the 50-60's, the Ajax of Cruyff
The Brasil of 70, The France of the early 80's, , the Barca of Cruyff...Well the BEST!
Ok, you know what people, lets leave that as it is, Raul and Sheva are best forwards of the world!Period!
For now, lets prepare to celebrate the 8th CL
victory for Real Madrid!

Forza Magico Milan!
Hala Madrid!
Allez Les Bleus!
Arriba Espana!

Real show the world, that you're the best of 99-00 CL!Just do it!
 

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P.S. Amo, I disagree with you though about Vieri. I think Sheva is more skillful and more unique. But, again, this is just my opinion.

this doesnt really count i just wanted to try one thing......
 
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