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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is my last on this one this season and as a consequence it's propably going to be REALLY long. So bear with me.

As I've said elsewhere I think Parma's goal was valid against Juventus.
Therefore I can certainly understand Your frustrations, because in all propability this ended Your dreams of "Lo scudetto".
There is no doubt that Lazio IS being treated worse than Juve. Most of You completely ignore the fact that we've had many valid penalty claims as well, but I would be a liar if I claimed that we've had as many as You have. This last incident against Parma was obviously the icing on the cake, and I don't think any of us Juve fans think You should be quiet about it.
But just as well as You are dedicated fans of Lazio, You must understand that we feel the same about Juventus. Whenever something bring up unfounded negative claims about Lazio it's only understandable that You react- and You do.
I've already said that the refs. are more positive towards Juve than You guys, and You can continue calling us lucky or protected, but you have no evidence and consequently no right to say that we bribe referees. These matters has been looked into over and over and over again, and there has never (NEVER) been any eveidence to back up that theory. I will swallow the arguments that Juve gets unfair protection from the refs. because it's by far the most popular team in Italy and at the same time the dominant team in the history of Italian Calcio. This is obviously not fair, but it's not Juventus fault that this is the case.
Like I said when replying to AngeloB's post yesterday, I'm all in favor of a new board within Lega Calcio. If nothing else it might clear the air some, and to me I think (hope at least) that it would change the image of Juventus being favoured because of it's mystery "power" within the organization of Lega Calcio.
I don't think it would actually change much as You can't change the fact that Juventus is the team most referees grew up admiring. As most Italians (36% according to a recent survey published both at Juventus official site, Daily Soccer and Italian-soccer) support Juventus the statistical propability that they will be in favor of Juventus will always be there. I'm not saying it's right- much less fair, but on the other hand You really can't blame Juve for being the most succesfull side in Italian football history.

Some peiople suggest proffesional referees. There's certainly enough money available within the Italian football community, so to me that seems a good idea. But what would it change ? IF there is any kind of bribing going on, obviously it would make it easier for the refs. to turn them down if they received better wages.
I certainly don't believe Juve is bribing refs. and quite anumber of the Lazio fans I know best has stated on previous occasions that Juventus is propably not paying anybody off. That doesn't mean the bias doesn't exist anyway.
The only positive effect I see from professional referees is that they have better training options, and subsequently might be better all-round referees, but all the training in the world won't alter the fact that anybody as interested in football as You'll have to be to decide becoming a ref. will have preferences.
Am I saying that nothing can be done ? To some extend yes, but I DO think that some other measures can and should be taken.
Sven G. E. repeated sugestion that Lega calcio should use extra referees behind the goal is a good one I think. The possibility that two sets of eyes will see better than one is obviously true.
That should cancel some of the wrong calls on penalties (for and against) and I suppose it would give extra credibility to the league.
Measures like these would benefit our reputation as well, because to tell You the truth it's getting pretty annoying that everything about Juve is being downsized by opponent fans.
Lazio has received as many penalties from dives this season as Juve (2 as far as I can remember), but as Pippo has the extradinary history of doing it, You all seem to think that every time we get one (penalty) it must be false. We've scored on all our 9 penalties while I know that You've converted 6 of 8 or 9 penalties this season (I'm not 100% sure how many Miha or any other has missed). Can we at least agree that's not the account we're being favoured in. You have had more claims for penalties that hasn't been given, but just like You all know about the incidents in which Lazio has been shorthanded, we Juventus fans remember the times we've been cheated, and all the times I brought it up here the response is that we've had it coming. You know- that makes us a bit angry as well. We're no differnt from You. We wan't the best for our team as well- we just support another team.
Remember again that I'm not claiming that we're treated equally and obviously that isn't fair. On the other hand you must also understand that we cannot believe that Juve is buying their relative succes, because there has never been any evidence supporting that. You have every right to be frustrated, but You can't lay the blame on Juventus and call us thieves over and over, because these matters are not in our hands (club or fans).
I was mad yesterday because I thought many of You crossed the line of decency with the continous slamming of Juventus.
you have every right to be upset, and Juventus (as the team benefitting from the mistake) is obviously the easiest target, but as I've tried to make clear, I can't see how Juventus can be made responsible for this/these mistakes. All I'm hoping for is, that people will stop saying that a Lazio-Inter draw is because of Juve's influence. I mean.. come on! You may all believe that Lazio is the moral winner of this year championship. I won't comment on that other than I think whoever eventually wins this thing will be worthy Champion because of the consistency they've showed.
I like Lazio as a team, and most of You know I've got nothing against You guys OR your team (except that I dislike Simeone about as much as You guys can't stand the sight of Pippo).
Therefore I'm also sad that we have to experience the kind of hostility we have the last two days, but just as I've made it clear that I understand Your frustration- You must also realize that Juventus fans are fed up with everything bad which can be said about us is blown out of proportion and that we're constantly branded as thieves.

I wan't to end this message with a smiley as a recognition that I like the fact that Lazio has climbed to the heights it has in Italy and Europe. If there's one team I could accept losing a scudetto to it would be Yours, but obviously I prefer that it will go Turin.
I'm sure You can understand that as fellow football fans, and my only plea is that You consider whether it's actually possible for Juve to buy refs. the way You (some of You) have claimed them to do, without ever being discovered.
If You come to the conclusion that it's human preferences within Lega Calcio and the majority of referees being in favor of Juventus and Milan like I think, You could maybe ease up on the heavy criticism of Juve.
Mind You I'm STILL not saying that' fair either, but I think it's unreasonable to speculate so massively against a team that has never been found guilty of anything.
I hope that explains the reactions you've gotten fromJuve fans to Your justifiable anger these last days.

Still hoping we can all get along :).


26,731 Posts
Blah blah blah,sometimes glen you remind me a politician :) :) :) :)

Anyway,what I make of your very well structured post is:

"Yes,we get help but you cant prove it so zip it."

You make sense,no doubt about that,but you make sense because as it is said "everyone is inocent until the opposite is proved"

I dont mean to be offenvice at any case,ok? hope you understand this.

The sun will rise again...and it will be...GIALLOBLU!

Lazio is a big team (you said that), but we are not treated like one. My question is WHY ?

But except everything, yesterday I first became very upset but today I have more realized that what happened at Delle Alpi yesterday was something really bad. It was an offence to football fans all over the world, it was an offence to people who bets on the result, it was an offence to Juventus who could have won this league without the help from referees (I don't mean this, but it sounds good to write :)), it was an offence to Cragnotti who has spend money on Lazio, it was an offence to Parma who are fighting for the CL spot and it was an offence to everyone else who I have forgot to mention.

It doesn't matter if he blew before, after or when Cannavaro headed the ball. There was no reason to whistle and stop the game !!

Forza Lazio

Rather in Serie B than winning lo scudetto in certain ways

17,861 Posts
Glen you prove once again that you should become a diplomat for the UN or something! :)

Nice post, and even though I don't want to say it, I have to agree....they say innocent until proven guilty! It would be nice to favouritism kicked out of the game though...it happens a lot in the EPL too with Man Scum getting all kinds of dodgy decisions ans hours of injury time if they are losing or drawing!

First Place winner, June 2010 Photo Contest
38,837 Posts
Damn, when you say REALLY LONG POST you're not kiddin'!!!!
Ever thought of writing a book, Glen? Give me a few minutes to
catch my breath before I can respond, okay?

First Place winner, June 2010 Photo Contest
38,837 Posts
There is just so much in your post to respond to, I just don't
know where to begin! I think it's great you admit that Cannavaro
should have gotten a goal from his header, as I wrote earlier
it really upset me to see so many Juve fans deny his goal. I can
understand why, but I didn't like it. I still think you are wrong
when you say that there is nothing going on with respect to
buying referee's, just because it's not proved. It's like with the
O.J. Simpson trial, it wasn't PROVED that he was guilty but the
whole world KNOWS he was guilty. But don't get me wrong,
I am not hoping for proof of match-fixing, I just want it to stop!!
Juve fans support their team, just as Laziale do. And I would just
find it terrible if ever Lazio would be implicated in anything like
this. Lazio to me is like religion and I know Juventus is that to
some of you also. But there is just a structual problem with
the support some referee's have for Juve. You say it 36%, but
it could be more than that!! This is just a situation that must be
dealt with, these referees must have enough professionalism to
forget about who they want to win, and just focus on enforcing
the rules!! As far as the hostility between Juve and Lazio goes,
I think that's just hot temperament!! It will all pass in time. I want
to close by saying that I hope Perugia-Juventus will be a clean and
honest match, I hope there will be no more suggestions by Juve
that Amaruso may not want to score against his old team, I hope
Perugia-Juventus will end in a tie, I KNOW Lazio will beat Reggina
and finally I hope for an end to all this controversy! Glen, I give you
TWO smiles from me!!! :) :)

FORZA LAZIO !!!!!!!!!!!

4,844 Posts
Phew, I hope this topic and the replies will actually clear up the air - it's been really heated up here (and in Juve forum) recently.
Yup innocent until proven guilty is what should be the state of mind of those who investigate the matter, but again, the quest for justice should also be relentless.
I have faith in justice, retribution, whatever...so I'd not lose hope. :)

Forza Lazio

13,659 Posts
Ok, let's make this a bit more clear. Juventus probably don't pay referees. Simply because they don't have to.

No Glen, a Juventus supporter is not like a supporter of any other team. Actually I don't get the joy of supporting such a team at all. You know that you are getting gifts from the referees and since you win Lo Scudetto as often as you do that real joy of winning can't be there. Imagine what a single Scudetto would mean to the fans of Roma, Lazio, Parma or even Inter? But instead you keep on shutting your eyes for the truth and win your biased Scudettis over and over again pretending that everything is what it should be. This makes me sick and I feel that the only cure is referees from another country. Perhaps a spaniard or a frenchman would consider Lazio, Parma, Roma and Inter as equals to Milan and Juventus and that Serie A for once would be settled on the field.
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