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Discussion Starter #1
When Kleberson came to United he got injured in the 2nd game, and even though not many people saw him they said he was a flop and so on. But since his come back, he has been superb. He is giving assists and being quite danqerous in attack. What I wanted to ask is, is Kleberson still considered for the national team (if so, is he a starter or a squad player) and what do brasilians think of him?
 

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Cachorro
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Our coach considers him a starter in a midfield composed of Gilberto Silva, Kleberson, Ze Roberto (from Bayern Munich) and Ronaldinho Gaucho. :cool:

Here in Brazil Kleberson is respected, but unfortunately the players who compete for his position on the team are more appreciated by the fans in general: Renato from Santos (basically because he plays in a big Brazilian club) and Juninho Pernambucano from Lyon (basically because he's awesome). ;)

I personally would prefer Juninho Pernambucano in that position – but Klebs is a quality player, so his presence in the 1st eleven is not a problem. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Juninho Pernambucano is superb. I still dont understand how a very big club hasnt bought him yet.

I still take the piss out of celtic fans for those goals that he scored against them this season to knock them out of the champions league:D :howler: :happy:


About Kleberson...in what position did he play, when he was in Brazil. Did he play the role that he played for Brazil in the World Cup which is more defensive from the centre of midfield, or like at United as a link up man between the midfield and the striker?
 

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Trimi said:

About Kleberson...in what position did he play, when he was in Brazil.
You know... we aren't sure ourselves. :tongue:
I'd guess soem type of "modern" defensive mid, who defended and attacked when he had to.
 

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Cachorro
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During the 2002 WC Kleberson was the 2nd man of midfield in a 3-5-2 system. He played the right side, supporting Cafu's advances and helping Gilberto close the spaces whenever we lost the ball.

Tell you what: I'll post here something I wrote at another forum, earlier this year. I think it may answer your questions. ;)
 

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Kleberson – the Underrated World Champion

(originally written by Garrincha in 08-19-2003)

Alex Ferguson, Manchester United’s manager, recently had this to say about his most recent signing:
"In training last week he showed absolutely marvellous form. He's a very quick lad with a great vision of the game and he can play in different positions, which is going to be very important to us. As I have said, I am convinced he won the World Cup for Brazil. It was after they changed their pattern of play in their game against Belgium last summer, that his influence began to come through and after that he was outstanding. The fans will love him at Old Trafford I am sure."
These statements caused quite a stir, and many people bashed Sir Alex for saying this. The criticism covered a wide range of arguments, from "He only says that to boost his new player’s confidence" (which may be true, but it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s wrong) to "It was Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo who won the WC for Brazil, Kleberson was expendable" (which is a MUCH more arguable point, as I will demonstrate).

Well, let’s not waste too much time discussing Ferguson’s motives for making those statements, they're self-evident - and that doesn't take away the merits of what he said. Manchester's transfer campaign disappointed many people who expected "the richest club in the world" to splash some cash on at least one recognizable world-class star. Ronaldinho Gaucho was attempted and chose Barça; and other deals were probably attempted before Kleberson and Cristiano Ronaldo were announced. IMO both these players were excellent signings, and both will contribute heavily to Manchester’s future success. But I digress. Ferguson’s intentions were probably just to praise his new player’s skills, and remind all unhappy fans that this new face was World Champ just last year, even though he’s not "proven in Europe". :rolleyes: :star:

But – and this is where this becomes controversial – Ferguson not only underlines that Kleberson was World Champ, he goes on to state that the midfielder’s contribution was decisive, suggesting actually that without Kleberson the World Cup wouldn’t have ended in Brazil’s hands. :mute: Now THIS is a minefield.

Let’s look at the state of the Brazilian team before Kleberson won a position on the starting eleven. We were using three defenders (Lucio, Edmilson and Roque Junior, with Edmilson sometimes pushing forward to help the mid) and a five-man mid: Cafu, Gilberto Silva, Juninho, Ronaldinho and Roberto Carlos (look at the picture posted below, taken from Scolari’s personal notes from the WC, contained in his recently-released biography). That was our basic midfield in the first four matches on the WC, and while it was sufficient for the Group Stage, that formation was neutralized by Belgium in an alarming fashion, raising serious doubts regarding Brazil’s future in the competition. The Belgians marked Juninho closely, and whenever Middlesbrough’s lightweight midfielder lost possession we found ourselves quite unprotected. Gilberto Silva had his hands full covering for our wingers Cafu and Roberto, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo tried returning to help the middle but it became obvious that something needed to change or the World Cup would soon be over for us; we were simply giving too much freedom to the opposing midfield.

Even with that fragile midfield formation, and despite Belgium’s tactical superiority over our team, the Brazilian players still were talented enough for us to defeat Belgium; we won because we had the better players, even though they were – in that game – tactically superior. Scolari was not blind and he knew that against England’s stronger team, things wouldn’t be so simple. If the highly-competitive English team had the chance to control our midfield like Belgium did, our World Cup adventure would be over quite certainly.

(continues in the next post…)
 

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Cachorro
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... still about Kleberson, I hope I'm not boring you...

And this is where Kleberson came in. If we look back at the available players in the WC squad, it becomes clear that NO other player could do quite the same job performed by Kleberson. He came in to cover for Cafu’s advances down the right flank, and more – to go up the right side himself when the opportunity arised, so that Cafu wouldn’t be the only alternative for that side of the field. Juninho already was used for that, but Kleberson’s stronger defensive contribution also made Gilberto’s work in front of our defense much easier.

This wasn’t Scolari’s only change for the game against England, mind you: He himself admitted that in the first four games we played in a 3-4-1-2, with Ronaldinho floating behind Ronaldo and Rivaldo. When Kleberson came in (again, according to Scolari’s own notes – look at the picture below) we changed to a 3-4-2-1, with Ronaldinho Gaucho and Rivaldo both helping the mid, which gave our team more stability – a stability which allowed us to defeat England even with one man down. ;) In Scolari’s own words, written before the game against England: “We watched the England games repeatedly and decided to use Kleberson to give more consistence to our midfield and to strengthen the right side of our defense, because England’s leftback is a very good player who passes quite well.”

The question is, why was Kleberson so important? Couldn’t Vampeta, another right-sided defensive mid, do the same job? Maybe, IF he had Kleberson’s mobility and speed. While it’s true that Vampeta was briefly used as a rightback, early in his career (which might be an argument in favour of choosing him) the truth is that he doesn’t have the necessary speed for that. Vampeta’s advantage over Kleberson is his more refined passing, and Kleberson’s advantage over Vampeta – which ultimately earned him the starting position – was his huge mobility and adaptability to multiple functions. When Brazil had possession Kleberson was able to burst forward, almost as an attacking mid, as he did several times in the WC final for example. Vampeta’s more “paced” rhythm was very important in some moments of pressure, but Kleberson gave our team a “punch” on the right-side that had been a problem for a loooooong time.

For example: In 1998 we used two left-sided players in our midfield for example: Rivaldo and Leonardo. In that World Cup’s final, once France closed down our left side with Thuram and Karembeu, all they needed to do was block Cafu and we had NO right side available, because there was nobody else for that side. Edmundo tried something on the right-wing but improvisations rarely work in decisive games. I’m not saying Kleberson would have changed history if he had played in 1998, but if he was there instead of Cesar Sampaio it’s clear that our right side would be much harder to stop, because Cafu would have a valuable helper down that flank. Who knows? Things might have worked differently. :undecide:

Before anyone questions Ferguson’s words by stressing that Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho were the truly decisive players… well, I agree that the three “R”s were the stars of the company, and without them we’d probably be screwed. But Kleberson’s contribution wasn’t less important than theirs – we could still be creative and dangerous without one of the three “Rs”, but without Kleberson we would lose our midfield’s "motor". Without Kleberson (who was, IMHO, the best player in the final game, better than Ronaldo, despite the goals scored by "Il Fenomeno") we wouldn’t have reached the WC final, because he was a perfect fit in our midfield, giving us more mobility and consistence (to use Scolari’s own term). :cool: So, was Kleberson the best player in the WC? No, in my opinion Rivaldo was the MVP of the tournament. But without Kleberson’s hard work and adaptability Brazil wouldn’t have done it – Sir Alex is 100% right about that. :proud:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Garrincha thanks for those detailed replies. Well, Kleberson at United plays kinda like in his Brazil formation which you posted above, by going on the right and supporting gary neville and putting great crosses in, like the one against man city:D....but the only difference is that at United, he has both Keano and P Neville as defensive midfielders rather than just Gilberto like in the Brazil team. So, by having 2 defensive mids covering for him, he also goes and plays as a link up man between the midfield and RVN or as an attacking midfielder coming from deep like Scholesy (and he is a good one at that).

That was the thing that confused me, as I remember he always being called a defensive midfielder, but now at United seeing him attack a lot, made me unsure about his position. So, again thanx for clearing that up.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
And btw I totally agree with you about Rivaldo being the MVP of the tournament.
 

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I will keep it BRIEF (...............!!). The fact that a player from Atletico Paranaense (the 1st ever) forced his way into a WC squad PERHAPS says it all
 

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MineiroGiant said:
I will keep it BRIEF (...............!!). The fact that a player from Atletico Paranaense (the 1st ever) forced his way into a WC squad PERHAPS says it all
He is not nearly as good as DaGOLberto! :star:
 

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You know when someone start to quote himself is that for what...
...Your own TV Show in a cable channel!
Beware Galvao Bueno and Trajano, here comes Garrincha's Xtra Footbal Show!!! :star: :star: :star: :star:
 
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