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whose the better driver?

  • Kimi

    Votes: 16 43.2%
  • Alonso

    Votes: 17 45.9%
  • Both are equally matched

    Votes: 1 2.7%
  • Only time will tell

    Votes: 3 8.1%

  • Total voters
    37
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Kimi. But they're pretty even in the long run. Kimi is quicker but Fernando is the smarter driver, not to mention he has more luck. Kimi's more ruthless and is more likely to take a chance whereas Fernando is comfortable motoring around in third or something. Quite even, really.

The fact that the Renault is a far more reliable car helps too.
 

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Kimi.

The way he charges from the back everytime speaks for his skills.
 

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Eric0815 said:
Kimi = Senna

Alonso = Prost

Kimi = fast laps/wins the great and memorable races

Alsonso = drives just fast enough/wins championships
I'd more or less agree with that assessment. Kimi needs to finish more races IMO. Right now Alonso is the better driver.
 

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Eric0815 said:
Kimi = Senna

Alonso = Prost

Kimi = fast laps/wins the great and memorable races

Alsonso = drives just fast enough/wins championships

That's somewhat true, though you would have expected Alonso's style to be more similar to Senna considering his Latin roots. But since I've always like Senna more than Prost and IMO Senna is the greatest ever F1 driver, my pick for this poll is Kimi :D
 

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I agree with Leonardo, Kimi is the driver that goes as hard as he can always to make the best of the car, but Mercedes-Ilmor and Mario Ilien are not a big help for him.
Alonso is more of a Prost like Eric said face to a Senna/Hakkinen type like Kimi.
Kimi is the best driver of the generation, i will be very mad if he leaves McLaren and Alonso will come here go for 2nd or 3rd and brake the engine because its not realiable...i really dont see Alonso the driver for McLaren, but better then Montoya.
Kimi is also the unique type that whatever happens to him outside the track...women, whiskey, vodka, beer he`s still Kimi the best on the circuit.
Il say that if Kimi was at Renault in 2005 and Alonso at McLaren, i would have seen a poor trying Alonso saying that its just not the car that can bring you a title...while Kimi fighted till the last lap.
Like in Australia Kimi was pushing till the last lap, as Alonso wasnt going hard 1-2-3 laps might have been the answer for Kimi to execute Alonso and win the race.
 

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McLaren said:
I agree with Leonardo, Kimi is the driver that goes as hard as he can always to make the best of the car, but Mercedes-Ilmor and Mario Ilien are not a big help for him.
Alonso is more of a Prost like Eric said face to a Senna/Hakkinen type like Kimi.
Kimi is the best driver of the generation, i will be very mad if he leaves McLaren and Alonso will come here go for 2nd or 3rd and brake the engine because its not realiable...i really dont see Alonso the driver for McLaren, but better then Montoya.
Kimi is also the unique type that whatever happens to him outside the track...women, whiskey, vodka, beer he`s still Kimi the best on the circuit.
Il say that if Kimi was at Renault in 2005 and Alonso at McLaren, i would have seen a poor trying Alonso saying that its just not the car that can bring you a title...while Kimi fighted till the last lap.
Like in Australia Kimi was pushing till the last lap, as Alonso wasnt going hard 1-2-3 laps might have been the answer for Kimi to execute Alonso and win the race.

If... if... I don't get what Alonso did so bad to look such a bad driver for some of you. Alonso wasn't going hard in those 3 laps to keep the engine. Next race, Kimi breaks the damn engine again and we have to head about bad luck again. If Kimi is the best, he has to prove it.
 

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How is Kimi "breaking the engine"? Everybody knows that the Mercedes engine is unreliable and generally weak, it's nothing he's doing other than driving on the limit. If it was just Kimi breaking it then how do you explain the plethora of engine problems when de la Rosa, Montoya, Wurz, Coulthard and even Hakkinen have had with the Benz engines over the last five years?
 

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Sir Leonardo said:
How is Kimi "breaking the engine"? Everybody knows that the Mercedes engine is unreliable and generally weak, it's nothing he's doing other than driving on the limit. If it was just Kimi breaking it then how do you explain the plethora of engine problems when de la Rosa, Montoya, Wurz, Coulthard and even Hakkinen have had with the Benz engines over the last five years?
The Mercedes engine breaks easily, but if you force it much more, it's worse. It seems Kimi just wanted to make the fast lap to keep the false myth that he's the fastest, when Alonso was faster than him during all the race. Alonso uses the same engine the next week, so he didn't use it at the maximum power to avoid problems. On the other hand, Kimi made the engine to suffer unnecessary stress just to appear as the fastest again, just as JPM said. If his engine is not as reliable as the Renault's, why did he force it? It doesn't make any sense.

Then IMO, Kimi is a really good driver, but I also think Alonso seems more intelligent driving the car. Alonso knows when he has to attack and when he has to defend. Kimi is more demagogic in his driving.

De la Rosa is in the comments of the races for Spain. He says that the McLaren can't work at 100% all the time, they have a limited amount of Kms to drive to the limit. And I guess it's the same for the other cars. I don't say Kimi breaks the engine, I say that his stupid driving in the last race increases the risk of breaking the engine. Why does he stress the engine in an already lost race when he may need it next time?

It's such a false myth that Alonso is a conservative driver. He chooses the moments when he has to be agressive, like he did in that start when he made a historical movement to overtake 4 cars using the dirty zone, and when to defend to keep a position. It's all about taking the right decision in the right moment and, at least, for now, last year and this year, Alonso showed to choose better than Kimi.

With all this, I don't say that Kimi is bad driver. He's great and enjoy to see him, but I don't see the reason why he's better than Alonso... and, if he is, he has to prove it. He can do it... of course, he can, but until then, Alonso has been world champion and Kimi hasn't.
 

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Point of information -

I heard from the commentators that Mclaren was the only engines not busted this season.

As in, they havent required any forced engine change as of yet.

=D

Koeman, I don't think Kimi is so foolish to risk his engine just to 'appear faster than Alonso'. He knows that getting the points is definitely more important than getting his name on the fastest lap list. He, for sure, knows how important each and every single point is after the past few seasons of close misses with the number 1 spot, and definitely knows that his long term goal is to get the Driver's Championship, and not 'Fastest Lap' driver for the races.
 

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Casillas said:
Koeman, I don't think Kimi is so foolish to risk his engine just to 'appear faster than Alonso'. He knows that getting the points is definitely more important than getting his name on the fastest lap list. He, for sure, knows how important each and every single point is after the past few seasons of close misses with the number 1 spot, and definitely knows that his long term goal is to get the Driver's Championship, and not 'Fastest Lap' driver for the races.
But his 2nd position was safe too. He pushed in the last 2 laps as if his life depended on it. It didn't make sense.
 

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Koeman4 said:
The Mercedes engine breaks easily, but if you force it much more, it's worse. It seems Kimi just wanted to make the fast lap to keep the false myth that he's the fastest, when Alonso was faster than him during all the race. Alonso uses the same engine the next week, so he didn't use it at the maximum power to avoid problems. On the other hand, Kimi made the engine to suffer unnecessary stress just to appear as the fastest again, just as JPM said. If his engine is not as reliable as the Renault's, why did he force it? It doesn't make any sense.

Then IMO, Kimi is a really good driver, but I also think Alonso seems more intelligent driving the car. Alonso knows when he has to attack and when he has to defend. Kimi is more demagogic in his driving.

De la Rosa is in the comments of the races for Spain. He says that the McLaren can't work at 100% all the time, they have a limited amount of Kms to drive to the limit. And I guess it's the same for the other cars. I don't say Kimi breaks the engine, I say that his stupid driving in the last race increases the risk of breaking the engine. Why does he stress the engine in an already lost race when he may need it next time?

It's such a false myth that Alonso is a conservative driver. He chooses the moments when he has to be agressive, like he did in that start when he made a historical movement to overtake 4 cars using the dirty zone, and when to defend to keep a position. It's all about taking the right decision in the right moment and, at least, for now, last year and this year, Alonso showed to choose better than Kimi.

With all this, I don't say that Kimi is bad driver. He's great and enjoy to see him, but I don't see the reason why he's better than Alonso... and, if he is, he has to prove it. He can do it... of course, he can, but until then, Alonso has been world champion and Kimi hasn't.
You might be right at some point but you exagerate when you call Kimi`s driving dumb, if its dumb where was Suzuka 2005? He knew what he was doing.
Also now he knows that maybe the Mercedes V8 is more reliable then the last.....hmmmm 6 Mercedes V10's.
If the engine is unreliable its breaks cause it brakes you cant just drive slowly if you start 11th or 13th and finish 8th of course the next race the engine cant resist especially if you start from pole ( see Germany 2005 )
If Alonso was in Kimi`s situation in 2005 probably he wouldnt even get those great races starting from behind+braking the engine in the next race while he was in the first 2 rows of the grid.
Naturaly the Renault is a better car then the McLaren this year, even if i hope what Ron says ( similar to last ) that in the 5th race the car will see many improovments.
 

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Koeman4 said:
But his 2nd position was safe too. He pushed in the last 2 laps as if his life depended on it. It didn't make sense.
He finished 1.8 seconds behind Alonso in Melbourne, since Alonso was cruising in his final laps. I don't think Kimi would be quick enough to catch Alonso in the race, though a driver who's closing in on the race leader normally pushes his car to the limit in an attempt to:

1. Close down the gap
2. Exert pressure on the race leader into making a mistake (running wide, or spinning)
3. Take over grid position due to misfortunes of the race leader (engine failure or blown tyres -> not likely to happen to a Renault car though :D)

Of course, Kimi failed to pass Alonso in the final laps in Melbourne, and his final laps in Australia may well have caused unneccessary strain on the fragile Mercedes engine for the race in San Marino :scared:

Well done K4 :star: In just one year of following F1, you've known much more about the sports techinical aspects than those idiots in my workplace who have followed F1 for over a decade :cool:
 

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I really hope the next years Mercedes V8 will be at least as unreliable as the 2005 and see how Alonso deals with it...even though the chances are preety smalls it seems the V8 Mercedes works better then the V10 but lets not foreget in 2005 the first 4 races the engine was reliable and when France came and the engine blew after 3 hot laps on friday the nightmare started.
I think Alonso will really screw up at McLaren his years, i really hope Kimi dosent leave and Alonso will give up after 2-3 years.
At McLaren i want to see drivers like Senna, Mika and Kimi not Prost, Damon Hill or Alonso.
 

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Koeman4 said:
The Mercedes engine breaks easily, but if you force it much more, it's worse. It seems Kimi just wanted to make the fast lap to keep the false myth that he's the fastest, when Alonso was faster than him during all the race. Alonso uses the same engine the next week, so he didn't use it at the maximum power to avoid problems. On the other hand, Kimi made the engine to suffer unnecessary stress just to appear as the fastest again, just as JPM said. If his engine is not as reliable as the Renault's, why did he force it? It doesn't make any sense.

Then IMO, Kimi is a really good driver, but I also think Alonso seems more intelligent driving the car. Alonso knows when he has to attack and when he has to defend. Kimi is more demagogic in his driving.

De la Rosa is in the comments of the races for Spain. He says that the McLaren can't work at 100% all the time, they have a limited amount of Kms to drive to the limit. And I guess it's the same for the other cars. I don't say Kimi breaks the engine, I say that his stupid driving in the last race increases the risk of breaking the engine. Why does he stress the engine in an already lost race when he may need it next time?

It's such a false myth that Alonso is a conservative driver. He chooses the moments when he has to be agressive, like he did in that start when he made a historical movement to overtake 4 cars using the dirty zone, and when to defend to keep a position. It's all about taking the right decision in the right moment and, at least, for now, last year and this year, Alonso showed to choose better than Kimi.

With all this, I don't say that Kimi is bad driver. He's great and enjoy to see him, but I don't see the reason why he's better than Alonso... and, if he is, he has to prove it. He can do it... of course, he can, but until then, Alonso has been world champion and Kimi hasn't.
That's all well and good in theory but there's still alot you've missed. Every engine has a lifespan, no denying that, but irrespective of how fast he was going Raikkonen was still going to cover those extra 10.6km of the Melbourne circuit, regardless of how fast the car was moving, and thus meeting that race weekends total number of kilometres. You also forgot that McLaren hardly ran during the practice sessions, only putting a combined six laps in on Saturday, so their limit on the engines life was helped by that fact. You can be motoring about at 60k/ph about and the same amount of distance is going to be added to the engine's distance limit.

It differs because throughout the race Raikkonen wasn't pushing, those bastard Midland cars prevented him from challenging Alonso for the win, hence he didn't push as hard for what was pretty much the entire race as it was fairly obvious that as soon as he went on it at any stage Alonso was going to floor it, even though he was the one who kept pushing despite having first all but in the bag anyway. By not pushing as hard, barring those final laps, the engine wasn't revving as high as it would have if he was going as hard as everyone knows he can. When the engine doesn't rev as high as it can it puts less stress on the engine itself, therefore conserving it longer.

Distance limits mean nothing because it would have gone the same distance regardless. The stress he would have conserved throughout the race itself - especially during the lost laps from the multiple safety cars when the engines would not have been performing at even half the absolute rev limit - means that going quick on the last two laps really won't make much of a difference as it's only two laps at the absolute rev limit, opposed to fifty-something laps on it. Of course it doesn't matter what limit the car is revving to, engines will explode at any time even if you spend all race going at 60k/ph, but I hardly think being on the rev limit on laps 57 and 58 will mean that in San Marino it'll go BOOM! the moment they turn it on on Friday practice. The Mercedes engine may be volatile, unreliable and weaker than the Renault but the difference between the two is very little.

Regarding the conservative driver thing ... well, put it this way: Alonso is Prost to Kimi is Senna. Alonsost is a methodical, technical driver who - as you said yourself - picks his spots. Sennaikkonen may not be as good a decision maker as Alonsost is and may make the odd mistake and drive a little more recklessly, and their ability to know when to be on it and when not to be is massively underrated, but everyone knows who is the bigger legend, even though statistics might say otherwise. :)
 

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It differs because throughout the race Raikkonen wasn't pushing, those bastard Midland cars prevented him from challenging Alonso for the win, hence he didn't push as hard for what was pretty much the entire race as it was fairly obvious that as soon as he went on it at any stage Alonso was going to floor it, even though he was the one who kept pushing despite having first all but in the bag anyway. By not pushing as hard, barring those final laps, the engine wasn't revving as high as it would have if he was going as hard as everyone knows he can. When the engine doesn't rev as high as it can it puts less stress on the engine itself, therefore conserving it longer.
Yes, but also if there was no SC then he wont have had the chance anyway.
I dont think we should call the Midlands bastard, at the first look yes but after all they cant keep the pace up with the Renault in the last corners when Alonso pushed it but they also messed up themselfs, i call them half bastards for what they did.
 

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Sir Leonardo said:
That's all well and good in theory but there's still alot you've missed. Every engine has a lifespan, no denying that, but irrespective of how fast he was going Raikkonen was still going to cover those extra 10.6km of the Melbourne circuit, regardless of how fast the car was moving, and thus meeting that race weekends total number of kilometres. You also forgot that McLaren hardly ran during the practice sessions, only putting a combined six laps in on Saturday, so their limit on the engines life was helped by that fact. You can be motoring about at 60k/ph about and the same amount of distance is going to be added to the engine's distance limit.

It differs because throughout the race Raikkonen wasn't pushing, those bastard Midland cars prevented him from challenging Alonso for the win, hence he didn't push as hard for what was pretty much the entire race as it was fairly obvious that as soon as he went on it at any stage Alonso was going to floor it, even though he was the one who kept pushing despite having first all but in the bag anyway. By not pushing as hard, barring those final laps, the engine wasn't revving as high as it would have if he was going as hard as everyone knows he can. When the engine doesn't rev as high as it can it puts less stress on the engine itself, therefore conserving it longer.

Distance limits mean nothing because it would have gone the same distance regardless. The stress he would have conserved throughout the race itself - especially during the lost laps from the multiple safety cars when the engines would not have been performing at even half the absolute rev limit - means that going quick on the last two laps really won't make much of a difference as it's only two laps at the absolute rev limit, opposed to fifty-something laps on it. Of course it doesn't matter what limit the car is revving to, engines will explode at any time even if you spend all race going at 60k/ph, but I hardly think being on the rev limit on laps 57 and 58 will mean that in San Marino it'll go BOOM! the moment they turn it on on Friday practice. The Mercedes engine may be volatile, unreliable and weaker than the Renault but the difference between the two is very little.
Okay... time will say. In any case, I don't want to do the mistake of underrating Kimi's talent. I enjoy watching the guy and I do really hope he doesn't have any problem. I do really think Kimi is the only one who can stop Alonso nowadays and the F1 is boring without a real contender. I'm really hoping to see many "Kimi vs Alonso" battles in the next years. :)

Regarding the conservative driver thing ... well, put it this way: Alonso is Prost to Kimi is Senna. Alonsost is a methodical, technical driver who - as you said yourself - picks his spots. Sennaikkonen may not be as good a decision maker as Alonsost is and may make the odd mistake and drive a little more recklessly, and their ability to know when to be on it and when not to be is massively underrated, but everyone knows who is the bigger legend, even though statistics might say otherwise. :)
Well... an extreme comparison. Kimi better starts to win more often to be in Senna's level. I remember that, when I was a kid, I followed these Senna vs Prost races and, you'll find it funny, I always liked Alain Prost better. :D I stopped following F1, because the Schumacher domination was really boring. Anyway, Kimi is more agressive, but I think he has to be more consistent in his driving and I think that this is the only thing that doesn't make him world champion. In that sense, I think Alonso is already closer to Prost than Kimi to Senna. Time will say...

BTW, I'm really wishing that Kimi goes to Ferrari next year... rumours grow and grow. How will it be for a McLaren fan to see Kimi in the red car and Alonso in McLaren? :D
 

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Be a McLaren fan with or without Kimi but i will concentrate my support on the other driver then Alonso more. I want a driver to show off make others head crack like Kimi did in Suzuka.
 
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