[Johan]

Legally, having sex with a minor is de facto rape even if it is consensual since a minor is not deemed fit to make such a decision. But this doesn't make pedophiles bona-fide rapists.

Lets not forget that there is a difference between being attracted and acting on that attraction. i would guess a couple of millions of muslim homosexuals doesn't act on their attraction, for obvious reasons.

 

[lili]

A very normal one. Pedophilia has been with us forever. Other societies accepted it (and some still do), others don't.

Really? Which societies accept it?
If something has been with people forever it doesn't mean it's acceptable.

People thinking about it is something expectable and it has very little to do with how society is.

It shows a society has very low standards and culture allowing it.

Not caring about moral values such as sex with minors is illegal, but it is not a mental disorder. Therefore, pedophiles (and I refer to people who actually engage in sex with minors) do not belong in psychiatric hospitals but in jail.

It is a menthal disorder and deviation and in most countries not only a matter of criminal law, but also psyhiatric treatment.

 

[Prince-O]

What sort of society is that where people even think about such ideas?

In what sort of society do people not think about such ideas? I don't think the society has got something to do with this. As you can see, many people are outraged even by the idea that this party will be formed. Therefore society does not allow it, does it?

In every society things happen that upset the majority.

 

[Almogàver]

Really? Which societies accept it?
If something has been with people forever it doesn't mean it's acceptable.

Ecuador, for example, as far as I know. Few days ago there was a case in a Spanish tribunal. It was the case of a 24 year old man who had had sex with a 12 year old girl and he was denounced, both are from Ecuador.

This is pedophilia in the Spanish law, but he claimed that this is not strange in Ecuador and many immigrant organizations from Ecuador backed him. She had given her approval to that. She also saw it normal. She wasn't fooled or raped. The thing is that some psychologist studied her mental development and, even though she was 12, her mental maturity was the one of someone who is 17 years old.

The Ecuatorian community in Spain backed these couple. None of them saw it as something strange or bad. Even the psychologists admited that it is the usual case of pedophilia. Finally, the tribunal didn't have any reason to punish the guy, after all the scientist, cultural and sentimental evidences of this particular case.

The legal limits of age are just a general agreement, because we all know that the maturity of a person depends on the case. When I read the headline of the case, I thought that the judge should finish in jail after her (the judge was even a woman) decision. But then you read the whole story, and it made me doubt and still I don't know what to think. In Ecuador things are this way, their culture is this way. She also wanted to do it, and the physchologic studies showed that she was mature enough to know what she was doing. She wasn't a kid with the head full of birds, you know? In general, I'd think this is pure pedophilia, but this particular case is different.

Anyway, what I just said has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Pedophilia is digusting since I assume that it's the case of someone who uses the advantage of the age to force another person to have a sexual relationship, either using physical or just mental superiority. Any sexual act which is not allowed from both (minimum 2 in these times... ) sides is simply disgusting and the approval must be given by someone mature enough to decide it.

But if someone is 12 years old, but mature enough to know what she or he's doing... the thing changes a lot. Sometimes the legal age was 21, sometimes 18, sometimes 16... but it's just a general agreement which doesn't have to be related with the reality of a particular case.

 

[lili]

In what sort of society do people not think about such ideas? I don't think the society has got something to do with this. As you can see, many people are outraged even by the idea that this party will be formed. Therefore society does not allow it, does it?

In every society things happen that upset the majority.

I think it does and i would say it's a too liberal society. It's ok, that a lot of people are against such an idea, but what is the clima on sex in the Nederlands, that a group of people come up with it in public? Isn't it, that a lot of traditional values are simply forgotten? That kids from young age are bombed with a lot information about sex, some of which they aren't able to understand? Why does every third marriage in Europe end in divorce you think? Cause a lot of limits fall and we have young people who are sexually old in the age of 25, cause sex is reduced on pleasing a person's physical need and once one has lived out this need they just move on to the next subject. Pity, that the objects need to be younger and younger.:yuck:

 

[lili]

Ecuador, for example, as far as I know. Few days ago there was a case in a Spanish tribunal. It was the case of a 24 year old man who had had sex with a 12 year old girl and he was denounced, both are from Ecuador.

This is pedophilia in the Spanish law, but he claimed that this is not strange in Ecuador and many immigrant organizations from Ecuador backed him. She had given her approval to that. She also saw it normal. She wasn't fooled or raped. The thing is that some psychologist studied her mental development and, even though she was 12, her mental maturity was the one of someone who is 17 years old.

The Ecuatorian community in Spain backed these couple. None of them saw it as something strange or bad. Even the psychologists admited that it is the usual case of pedophilia. Finally, the tribunal didn't have any reason to punish the guy, after all the scientist, cultural and sentimental evidences of this particular case.

The legal limits of age are just a general agreement, because we all know that the maturity of a person depends on the case. When I read the headline of the case, I thought that the judge should finish in jail after her (the judge was even a woman) decision. But then you read the whole story, and it made me doubt and still I don't know what to think. In Ecuador things are this way, their culture is this way. She also wanted to do it, and the physchologic studies showed that she was mature enough to know what she was doing. She wasn't a kid with the head full of birds, you know? In general, I'd think this is pure pedophilia, but this particular case is different.

Anyway, what I just said has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Pedophilia is digusting since I assume that it's the case of someone who uses the advantage of the age to force another person to have a sexual relationship, either using physical or just mental superiority. Any sexual act which is not allowed from both (minimum 2 in these times... ) sides is simply disgusting and the approval must be given by someone mature enough to decide it.

But if someone is 12 years old, but mature enough to know what she or he's doing... the thing changes a lot. Sometimes the legal age was 21, sometimes 18, sometimes 16... but it's just a general agreement which doesn't have to be related with the reality of a particular case.

JA, I have a daughter as you know and she'll be 11 in a few months.
She's far more intelligent than the most girls in her age and i'd say also a bit more mature. Test could say she's menthally about 14 or 15 or whatever.
I'm her mother and i don't give a crap to it. She's not able to deal with the consequences of her acting yet and she's surely not pshyically ready for a sexual relationship with a grown up man.It will change in a few years, but not next year, when she'll be 12 and also not the year after.

Girls in Equador or wherever else aren't that different from my daughter i beleive. What's different is probably their education and what their parents teach them. So in Equador the legal age for having sex is 12. Interesting. Shows a lot about how they value their children and families.
Did you also know the average lifetime there is about 10 years less than in the more developed countries? That only 56 % of the people there visit school between the age of 12 and 17? That there's 15 % of people who are illiterate?

 

[Almogàver]

JA, I have a daughter as you know and she'll be 11 in a few months.
She's far more intelligent than the most girls in her age and i'd say also a bit more mature. Test could say she's menthally about 14 or 15 or whatever.
I'm her mother and i don't give a crap to it. She's not able to deal with the consequences of her acting yet and she's surely not pshyically ready for a sexual relationship with a grown up man.It will change in a few years, but not next year, when she'll be 12 and also not the year after.

Girls in Equador or wherever else aren't that different from my daughter i beleive. What's different is probably their education and what their parents teach them. So in Equador the legal age for having sex is 12. Interesting. Shows a lot about how they value their children and families.
Did you also know the average lifetime there is about 10 years less than in the more developed countries? That only 56 % of the people there visit school between the age of 12 and 17? That there's 15 % of people who are illiterate?

But what are we talking about? I am not talking about your daughter or my cousins or about our occidental standards.

I didn't even say that what happens in Ecuador is good. I don't think it's good a 12 year old girl has the maturity of someone who is 17 or 18. The only thing I say is that some societies accept things that we don't... and it's easy to talk from our comfortable chair. Ecuador is a very poor country, it's not that they have sex being 12, it's that many kids also work in that age, many kids "work" in mafias and kill as if they were adults... I only showed that it exists in other cultures for many reasons.

In that case that I told you, a 12 year old girls has lived things that have made her reach a maturity not normal in her age. It's not that your daughter isn't intelligent or mature, it's that this girl of Ecuador never had a childness, maybe she got "adult" too soon, because the circumstances forced her to be this way. Sadly, your daughter and the girls of Ecuador aren't the same when they're just born, but I'm 100% sure your daughter didn't have to live the things that this girl has lived. Obviously, the development wasn't the same. Then you attack Ecuador and their people and that's very easy from Europe... but I think you should think about the circumstances of each country and why things happen. You can't see the society of Ecuador from the eyes of a European. Yes, some of their kids also work since they're 7 or 8 years old, but why? Did you think about this? Why do the kids of Ecuador have to work since they're 7? I don't think it's because their parents hate them... or do you really believe what you said?

I just think that this particular case is very tricky and things aren't white or black in such an easy way.

 

[ULTRA GORGATRON]

And of course there must be intolerance about it. I wouldn't even call it intolerance. Modern society does not accept pedophilia for a good reason and that should be the end of it. It is illegal and that's how it should be in my opinion.

Why wouldnt you call it intolerance? Arent you intolerant of murders in your neigbourhood? Or intolerant of burglars?

Or is it that the innocent term "intolerant" has a negative connotation that you do not want attached to you?

This is the weapon they use against people who dislike or disagree with anything.

Intolerance is a word that has too much stigma and emotion attached to it and when people are scared to be intolerant, they become victims of fear. Im intolerant of pedophilia. I think its a disease when the object of sexual attraction for a human being does not in any way resemble a sexually mature human being of the opposite sex.

These people need treatment and constant supervision. One of the reason pedophilia is so difficult to "cure" is because it fulfills a number of very basic, chronically arising human needs.

What if murderers started a political party next? Or terrorists?

 

[Liternit]

lili

at which age will your daughter will be responsible enough for sex?

 

[lili]

But what are we talking about? I am not talking about your daughter or my cousins or about our occidental standards.

You missed my point.

 

[lili]

lili

at which age will your daughter will be responsible enough for sex?

That will be up to her. I can't decide it for her, she will make her own decisions.

Are you planning a Slovenia visit? p

 

[Johan]

Why wouldnt you call it intolerance? Arent you intolerant of murders in your neigbourhood? Or intolerant of burglars?

A guilty without having commited a crime, heh?

Im intolerant of pedophilia. I think its a disease when the object of sexual attraction for a human being does not in any way resemble a sexually mature human being of the opposite sex.

you can't cure attraction. You can only make sure that the people don't do anything illegal, like having sex with kids.

These people need treatment and constant supervision. One of the reason pedophilia is so difficult to "cure" is because it fulfills a number of very basic, chronically arising human needs.

It is difficult to cure since it can't be cured, except possibly lobotomy. Most don't need supervision either. Just like most men don't need supervision due to risk of them wanting to rape someone.

What if murderers started a political party next? Or terrorists?

You are talking about criminals that want to hurt someone.

 

[Liternit]

That will be up to her. I can't decide it for her, she will make her own decisions.

Are you planning a Slovenia visit? p

no it was a serious question, I mean not taking law into count how can you rate something as pedophile or not. Say if you have a daughter that decides to have sex when she is 15 to guy a thats 20 (weird but it happens)

In America sex with minors is such a big deal for instance, even consenting sex

 

[Tim]

None is being sexually oriented towards "raping". Your not thinking here, they have a "different" sexual attraction that don't have to mean they will rape anyone.

If they act out on their attractions, then technically it is rape, because a child below the age of consent is not considerd mature enough to make a sound judgment about a sexual encounter with an adult, who may try to coerce the child into such an encounter. No consent, no consensual sex, even if the attraction for the kiddy bangers might not necessarily stem from the control that they acquire during the situation, whereas control if often more of a motivator than the sex itself for other rapists.

 

[Tim]

These people need treatment and constant supervision. One of the reason pedophilia is so difficult to "cure" is because it fulfills a number of very basic, chronically arising human needs.

I doubt there is a cure for people who cannot control themselves enough to keep from sexually assaulting children or other adults. Even with heavy treatment there is always a good chance for a relapse if they are given the opportunity. That's why they shouldn't be given an opportunity (in the form of parole) and should be kept in jail instead.

 

[lili]

no it was a serious question, I mean not taking law into count how can you rate something as pedophile or not. Say if you have a daughter that decides to have sex when she is 15 to guy a thats 20 (weird but it happens)

In America sex with minors is such a big deal for instance, even consenting sex

I wouldn't qualifie sex between a 20 years old and a 15 years old as pedophilia, although the USA have an age differency of 5 years at least when talking about it. It's sex with a minor however and this is punishable not only in the USA, but elsewhere as well. It's up to the parents how they deal with it. I'd say it's better to prevent than to cure and as a parent you can prevent only with talking to your child and this since a very young age. I don't expect my daughter to do or not to do things because of me, but because of herself. :smileani:

Pedophilia is the sexual interest towards children, either prepubescent or at the beginning of puberty, which in average starts in the age of 13.
So let's say pedophiles are exclusively interested in 13 years old and younger and i would say they are also older than 20. So 20 years old and up are by all means adults, 13 and younger aren't.

 

[lili]

I doubt there is a cure for people who cannot control themselves enough to keep from sexually assaulting children or other adults. Even with heavy treatment there is always a good chance for a relapse if they are given the opportunity. That's why they shouldn't be given an opportunity (in the form of parole) and should be kept in jail instead.

Tim, pedophilia in the most cases doesn't include sexual intercurse with children. If and when it does, that's a criminal act.

 

[AMOROSO!]

Really? Which societies accept it?
If something has been with people forever it doesn't mean it's acceptable.

I never said it was acceptable. I said it was normal that some people would feel that way. And that it is also NOT a criminal offence to think that way.

Which societies accept it? You know nothing of history? You know nothing of rural India?

It shows a society has very low standards and culture allowing it.

Nonsense. Society has very little impact on the sexual impulses of the people. Do you think gay people don't exist in Islamic countries?

If society actively encouraged or condened pedophilia, then you could argye about degeneration of society etc. etc. But that's not the case, is it?

It is a menthal disorder and deviation and in most countries not only a matter of criminal law, but also psyhiatric treatment.

Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. Sexual deviations are NOT mental disorders. If that's what you believe, then people who enjoy bondage or cross-dressing should also be classified as mentally ill.

And no, pedophiles are not treated as psychiatric patients unless they have an actual mental disorder. Much like rapists (and I'm not saying pedophilia and rape is the same thing) they are people who commit a conscious crime.

 

[Blitzkreig]

I never said it was acceptable. I said it was normal that some people would feel that way. And that it is also NOT a criminal offence to think that way.

Which societies accept it? You know nothing of history? You know nothing of rural India?



Nonsense. Society has very little impact on the sexual impulses of the people. Do you think gay people don't exist in Islamic countries?

If society actively encouraged or condened pedophilia, then you could argye about degeneration of society etc. etc. But that's not the case, is it?



Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. Sexual deviations are NOT mental disorders. If that's what you believe, then people who enjoy bondage or cross-dressing should also be classified as mentally ill.

And no, pedophiles are not treated as psychiatric patients unless they have an actual mental disorder. Much like rapists (and I'm not saying pedophilia and rape is the same thing) they are people who commit a conscious crime.

wtf has rural india has to do with pedophilia ?. I agree that still there is child marriage thing going on (It is very very very rare). but it is not like the way u morons think. though some kind of marriage happens between kids (belive me it is very rare and it is between kids) nothing physical happens in between them. when they become adults then comes the real marriage, where they can have sex. The thing is that it is some kinda forced marriage. i mean... one doesnt have the right to chose his/her own spouse. but again this is a very rare thing and ofcourse it is against the law.

 

[ULTRA GORGATRON]

I doubt there is a cure for people who cannot control themselves enough to keep from sexually assaulting children or other adults. Even with heavy treatment there is always a good chance for a relapse if they are given the opportunity. That's why they shouldn't be given an opportunity (in the form of parole) and should be kept in jail instead.

As for protecting children, we do have preventative measures and steps we can take that are moderately effective. I heard they are tagging them with trackers, providing information about pedophiles living in the area, etc

However, I think there should also be a solution to people who are dealing with this kinda of "attraction".

I dont think imprisoning them is a good idea. We dont need a "pedophile community" to build up in prisons, and you dont imprison people to protect others- you imprison them to punish them.

I do think that there is a solution out there for paraphilias. We just havent found it yet.