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Discussion Starter #1
So - to make it easier to identify promising young Juve owned players (and kill five minutes :D) - here's my first 11 team of talents (do pitch in with those I forget):

Edit: These players are either loaned out or half-shared.

------------------Mirante
Piccolo---- Gastaldello Masiello---Molinaro
Gasbarroni-------Paro-----------Bentivoglio
----------------Chiumiento
-----------------------Palladino
----------------Volpato


Mirante: Siena
Piccolo: Lazio
Gastaldello: Siena
Masiello: Avellino
Molinaro: Siena (I believe he plays as a right back though. Not getting many minutes so far).
Gasbarroni: Sampdoria
Paro: Siena
Bentivoglio: Mantova
Chiumiento: Le Mans
Palladino: Livorno
Volpato: Siena
 

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are those talents from juve's primavera or picked up from somewhere when they were 18 and then loaned out for half a decade to see what happens?

i think the "problem" with developing youth players and give them a fair chance in the first team is that juve's expectations on national and international level are so high, that they have to invest in top players every summer to keep the squad competitive on all fronts.

not the best ground for young talents to blossom, same as with inter or milan.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
il Principe: Many of these players were picked up at 16-17 from other teams and then inserted into the Primavera, but everyone of them have played in the Viareggio and with the Primavera.

I agree with your assesment on the other hand. But the system of loaning players out - some will flourish and some wont. Same goes for the numerous loan players Roma had out a few years back. Now a certain lack of depth in your squad means that youth has been trusted more, and it's paying dividends at the same time as it means there will be some incertainty as to the performances (Rosi being an example - sometimes looking real good, against Siena absolutely toyed with). Juventus... well... we haven't taken anyone back into the squad since I can remember. At the same time - before the Triad Juventus Primavera wasn't really a big factor, but now it is, with three straight Viareggio wins and a constant flow of talents. Eventually we will reap some dividends.

For many years I think Juve hasn't been attentive enough to find teams that would actually give the youngsters a good enviroment to grow as players and playing chances, but in a sense that has changed by shipping out players in bulk to the same teams (Siena, Crotone and Salernitana to mention the obvious ones in order of importance. Crotone's coach is even Juventus primavera coach of three years ago).

Cacíni: Well.... Apart from De Rossi....Rosi and Bovo ( :yuck: ) who would immediately replace a Juve player among your talents (honest question). But you are great too, I know. I saw when you beat us in last years league semifinal, and even if that was RIDICULOUSLY unfair - it was still clear that guys like Cerci, Conti and particularly Okaka are something.
 

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i read a couple of weeks ago, that juve has signed a deal to loan players to ravenna (think it was them).

regarding roma's current situation, well, there's a saying in german language:
"to make a virtue out of an emergency". :D

there simply was no other choice than integrating primavera players, but we all no if we weren't shirt of money, we have brought in other, on a top level proven players for millions and millions.

unfortunatly, as you mentioned, there can never be a guarantee that one player will develop into top-class, just as long as he keeps playing on a regular basis and a s much as we wish we'd have a squad full of the talents of totti's and bruno conti's, reality is different.

but at the same time i'm more forgiving when player from our primavera are used and make a mistake than with others, who were bought in for a good amount of money and had a horrible season.

how come you dislike bovo?
i see some potential in him.his first freekick goal is not far away i feel.
 

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Cacíni: Well.... Apart from De Rossi....Rosi and Bovo ( :yuck: ) who would immediately replace a Juve player among your talents (honest question).
What, you don't like Bovo?! (Apart from him being a romanista, obviously)
I think he's a very good promise...a versatile defender who can hit a mean free kick. There's an absolute shortage of defenders like that in Italy. Granted, his year in Parma was pretty damn horrific, but A) he had a fantastic Olympic tournament, outshining most of his serie A teammates, and B) he's been very solid for us whenever he's had to step in (out of position). I'm well pleased we have a player like him as cover for our first choice defenders, because I know that he seldom messes up. He's solid.

As for your original question, before me sidestepping; yeah, those, and Aquilani certainly. The system you've chosen isn't exactly optimal for Cerci, otherwise I'd be inclined to include him as well. Curci, too, before I forget.
Me, I like Palladino in your team, while I find the rest to be wholly untested. With DDR alone in the team--who's broken down both Milan's and Juve's midfield only this very year--we would virtually be assured victory in this highly hypothetical game of football :D.
 

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Ahhh, Glenny showing his sadistic side again :D Yet again talking about players we will never see in our shirt :( :pp

You looking for another "Maresca" to break your heart again? ;)


I may sound greedy and selfish in wanting to see some of these players play for Juve, but I'm also glad we arent in the same citaution as Roma, being forced to play them, due to lack of quality players.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Cacìni said:
What, you don't like Bovo?! (Apart from him being a romanista, obviously)
I think he's a very good promise...a versatile defender who can hit a mean free kick.
I think he's a dirty lump of wood :D . I don't dislike Roma players just because they play for Roma btw. I like Aquiliani (and D'Agostino more so, but he isn't Roma owned anymore) and respect De Rossi although I dislike his attitude (I wouldn't if I was a Roma fan though).
I really dislike Bovo's playing style that's all. Much like Iuliano I think, a big brute, only with an added free kick. That he is a 'talent' these days says a lot about the 'crisis' in terms of Italian defenders I think.

I forgot about Aquiliani, I admit, and I also agree that the Juve guys are untested. Going solely on promise here.

Cacìni said:
highly hypothetical game of football :D.
Indeed :).

Osman: Well, Maresca was different, in the sense that we not only had him on our hands, we also saw his impact WITH the team, still treated him crap, and now have Blasi and Gianni covering for Vieira.... :( :googly: :rolleyes: .
But no - it was just as much for my own benefit, because it is really hard to keep track of these guys, as we loan out - or make half share arrangements - for five or six new guys every year. I'd forgotten about bentivoglio completely for instance, even if he's a regular with his youth NT and has done well for upstarts Mantova in serieB.

As for my own belief in them.... well, Zlatan and Trez should be locks for quite a few years down the road still, but if Paladino and Volpato can deliver on their promise (brilliant start to the season for Palladino before his injury) - then there's every reason to look to them in a few years I think.
 

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Its incredible to see the youngsters that we have at our disposal, and yet, Ithe way things are at the moment, I thinkk that maybe 2 of those players will wear Juve jersey in the next years, wich is a real shame...

You know, if we win the scudetto this year, I wouldnt mind to bring some of those youngsters to Juve and have a rebuilt season with those youngsters, I mean, look ate our team, Nedved, Del Piero, Cannavaro, Thuram, Pessotto, are on thier 30's and Vieira, Emerson, Camoranesi, Kovac are not getting any younger, so I wouldnt mind to not compete for the scudetto next year, if that mens to start a rebulding of the team.

I will love to see Gasbarroni, Volpato, Palladino, Chiumento, Paro and maybe Masiello in Juve next year.

But then again, I know that this may not happend
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well - hopefull Chiellini and Balzaretti can open it up for the others (being young and rather unproven as they are). Of course - it's much easier for them when they play positions where their rivals for a sub role aren't stars.

Either way - not too many of the loaned out players have really meritted a position though. Miccoli was bought and loaned out - did tremendously - and was taken back in without us really giving him a go. Maresca did really well, was taken back in and wasn't given a real go. Brighi.... well. Anyone else? None that I can recall in the last many years, and to be honest noone else have shone and led their team like M&M. Gasba has been frequently injured and in and out of his teams, so it's no surprise when we move for Marchionni on a free who has done much more than Gasba.

Like mentioned before - we don't have room for these players to mature here. They have to make the serieA cut and then come back, and then I think that Juventus has to change in the sense that they must have a realistic shot at playing in rotation when they're taken back.

For instance - if Volpato and Paladino have two strong seasons following this debute one where they've only been used sporadically - then DP is probably at the end whereas Zlatan and Trez are still strong. Taking the two youngsters in as third and fourth options in attack at that time would make sense. That is of course premature, as they haven't yet made a name for themselves, but at least in that situation they would have chances to make the cut - unlike if they were here now.
 

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A problem with doing GEA teams favours by giving them one's surplus youngsters is that, normally, they won't see a whole lot of playing time. Which is the only reason they're loaned out...might as well sit at home on Sundays and at least train with world class players if you're going to sit on the bench in godforsaken teams and cities amongst the bottom dwellers of serie A.

Roma had to loan out Aquilani to serie B to give him actualy playing time and experience two years ago. And despite being one of the Cadet series's best midfielders that year, there is no way he would get a shot in with any serie A midfield, despite being a better player than many of the ones in the bottom five. It's become downright rare for 19-20 year olds to be starting in A--no matter how far down the table their team is. Too much too lose to develop players for the big guns.

And the situation only worsenes when there is no foresight and no planning made by the team loaning players out. Case in point; Valerio Virga, right winger who made a couple of appearances for Roma last year under Conti (one, dare I say, fantastic game against Udinese in the semis of the TIM Cup, among those) but who would find it hard to play this year. So he's loaned out, to Palermo. Palermo, with their newly-appointed coach Gigi Del Neri, who when at Roma did not put Virga on once, in any game. Where's the logic? Now he's at Ascoli, and I don't think he's getting any space there either.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Good choices mark77 :thumbsup: .

I had forgotten about Mantovani. Don't know how Cassani is doing at Verona though. Either way - both he and Piccolo are in Italy's provisioned U-21 EURO squad - like Chiellini, Mantovani, Nocerino (at Messina) and Palladino.

http://it.uefa.com/competitions/Under21/Teams/Team=66/index.html

A good site for keeping check of the whereabouts of the youngsters appear to be this French one: http://www.juventus-fr.com/transferts.php

Cacíni: Your Virga example is exactly like I feel has happened far too many times with our players. But again - I see a slight change in that pattern with Juve, as generally they now seem to arrive in teams where there's also a desire to use them.
 

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has miccoli been loaned out or sold to benfica?
maresca was sold to sevilla, right?

wouldn't mind both of em in next season's roma lineup to be honest.
 

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didn't miccoli get injured?
think it was in the (great :D ) game against man united.

both would fit in splendid into roma, but that's most probably not going to happen either.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
il_principe said:
didn't miccoli get injured?
think it was in the (great :D ) game against man united.

both would fit in splendid into roma, but that's most probably not going to happen either.
Well... Miccoli... that isn't 'impossible', whereas I think neither Maresca nor Sevilla have any intention of finishing their partnership.
And while Maresca would be great in most any team (IMO) I don't exactly see why Roma would really need a playmaker like him? Unless Totti is supposed to be a forward from now on.

I mean - isn't Dacourt (in other words the tough guy) the one you'd want to change? ... with De Rossi and Perrotta being locks and Aquilani your possible Maresca of the future?

At least I'd concentrate on an area striker (unless Nonda shows his worth) and a DM.

NB: Yes - Miccoli has been injured forever... or so it seems. I hope he comes back to haunt Liverpool, but don't know if he is ready at all.
 

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Glen said:
At least I'd concentrate on an area striker
While a power forward could no doubt be of worth to this Roma, il principe's on to something with Miccoli. Playing the way we have since New Year's, a quick, mobile attacker seems almost like a better fit. It's all about motion, having a player who runs very little and only moves inside the box is a luxury we may not be able to afford.

Food for thought, and decidedly off topic--apologies.
 

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Volpato is qualityand being watched by Man U apparently.Matteo Paro looks like a good passer and very composed player (doesnt he play for Chievo not Siena btw). i remember seeing Piccolo playing for Italy undr 17s at left back wen he was their captain and he was awesome.
 
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