[svennis]

I have stopped counting the numerous young talents Juve have signed recently ( Glen give us the list ) but a few, Cassano, Maresca and lately Zanchi - when will it end ?? I can not see how this is good for the italian national or italians in general ?? Imagine that these players will be under the influence of one club for a long duration of time - how can this be a good thing ??

I don´t know why we are so lowkey about our youth squad but it stinks !!

Another thing: If Cragnotti sells players just when we start to love them then there will be nothing to keep the fans at Lazio !! Nesta will never be sold but I want to relate to more then one Lazio player.

Stankovic is a perfect example of a player that should stay - we have 2 seasons of Stankovic playing just about everywhere but his regular place ( central ) - now it seems like Eriksson is trying to make Stankovic into a right wing and possibly take over after Conceciao but that´s in the ffuuuuuuuuuuuture. If we sell Stankovic then it would suck and I don´t care to explain why.

On my wish list was Zanchi as I see him as a possible great central defender now I really hope that Cragnotti will make a move for Cassano but since he´s already tied to Juve it will be impossible. Look at how juve operate: They have all these great players that they then use to get even greater players .. what fishnets does Lazio have in Serie A / B ... Cragnotti stop spending so much money abroad and start building a spiderweb in Serie A and let´s compete with Juve on more then one level.

Forza Juan Sebastian Veron !!!!

 

[PinkFloyd]

I agree

Forza Lazio
Viva Veron
http://home.enter.vg/pinkfloyd/lazio.htm

 

[Jena25]

Juve has also bought from Bologna Cipriani (this season has played in Lecce) and other players 17-18 years old. I don't want to see my idols sold, but players come and go, Lazio remains. After that Cragnotti has sold Signori now nothing can hurt me. But I hope that next year will remain the 25.
FORZA ALMEYDA!

 

[almaster]

Yeah, friends. it's getting more'n'more interesting around the situation of competing with Juve in makin' transfers, these hot guys are trying to put their dirty money hands in everywhere, don't forget their last unfair act with buying Paramatti, I'd like to admit that this guy is pretty much good in defence and now we're deprived of gettin' him. I don't understand why not to get back in our players Beppe Signori, he's still showing himself as a worthy striker, he's smart in his work, moreover he already played in Lazio and it was not a bad time both for us and him.

 

[svennis]

Nothing unfair about the Paramatti deal .. it´s just the upperhand that Juve holds on the italian transfer market.

Forza Lazio !!

 

[josh07]

Quote Soccernet.com :

Patrick Vieira is wanted by Juventus - and the Turin club are ready to pay £14million for the French midfielder.

-----

 

[Glen]

Svennis; Props to you .
Obviously we're thrilled that Juve attracts the interest of most Italian youngsters.
One of the reason this happens is that Juve cannot use all the good Italians coming our way. We always have one of the best Primavera teams, but as those players will not all make it to Juve teams like Bologna, Udinese, Bari and others know they proffit from a healthy relationship with us, as they can get good players cheap or loan players who can't find a place in our side.
That's one of the biggest reason why Juve has the upperhand when dealing with those teams, as they know they will get more than money from having a good relationship with Juve.
Sadly we're having alot of injuries right now, so we might not perform that well against Pistoiese in the Primavera quarters, but tardelli said a few months ago, that he had never seen a Primavera side as talented as ours.
And next years will be even better.. .

Josh; Every team would like Viera, but Arsenal wont sell him. The prizetag is rediculous anyway as he would certainly command a higher fee. Anyway this alledged offer was alledgedly vehemently defied by Wenger.

Ciao.

 

[Nedved!]

My sentiments exactly, svennis!
To me, the fact that we are at the top now should mean that we can afford to bring in more young Italians - clubs like Leeds are future-oriented -they may have to wait a few seasons before actually winning the title- , but Lazio's foundation is already quite strong, so it's possible to nurture young talents and winning trophies as well! Especially given that we have quite a number of matches...
And I hope Deki stays as well. He's good -he just hasn't got that many chances to prove it! So even if he's seen as surplus to the team, at least just loan him , Cragg, but don't sell him. And bring in more youths -Italians- as well, otherwise Juve will take all of them!

Forza Lazio

 

[svennis]

On the other hand it´s impossible to predict how a talent is going to turn out .. I´m sure that there have been numerous talents that just needed the right kick to blossom and this happens when you least expect it.

Juve are doing the smart thing but it´s not a given that this will be the ONLY smart thing. I have seen too many talents wasted in one club only to become mega in another ( Davids anyone ?? Carlos ??

Still I think all presidents in Serie A would trade places with Juve - maybe Lazio can become the third club in Serie A ( Milan and Juve are nr 1 ).

Forza Lazio !!

 

[aquila]

As you know, these days the Italian Under-21 national team are playing in the European championship in Slovakia and tonight they will face Turkey in a decisive match.

In the previous games against England (a 2-0 win) and Slovakia (1-1 but Pirlo was sent off when Italy were 1-0 up), the players who have been outstanding are Zanchi, Francesco Coco and Roberto Baronio. Zanchi commanded Italy's defense well and he's very strong in the air, as he proved against England. I somehow expected him to go to Juventus because Udinese and Juve have some links (Gionata Bachini, Morgan De Sanctis). Coco is a great left-back, fast and skillful, he has played at Torino this season, but belongs to Milan, I think.

Baronio was the playmaker and also scored the important goal against home side Slovakia with a long range shot. He has showed fighting spirit too, and this is a very good thing. In his previous spell at Lazio, he showed little grit and as soon as things went wrong, he tended to fade away. I think the year he has spent at Reggina has been so important to him. Baronio has learnt what it means to fight for a target, to struggle for avoiding relegation. A tougher Baronio is just what Lazio really need. But he ought to know that he's second choice behind Juan Sebastian Veròn

FORZA LAZIO

 

[Vito-Corleone]

The main reason can be said in 1 word, "Moggi" also known as Glen . Its not a question about Juve taking all the young Italian talents, it is also a matter that Lazio isn't going after those players prefering the names of Lopez, Rivaldo, and a matter of Milan going after Gerard, forinos unstead of Italians and the same could be said for Roma, Parma,..

Zanchi was available for the taking if lazio wanted to really buy him. So you see it is all about the philosophy of the team's managment. Just look at the rumured players list that Juve and Lazio are after, it puts everything into prespective in terms of team transfer strategy and goals.

I think Lazio strategy is to get established players, ready to compete right away. They have the money to pull it off and it was proven this season that you can win this way.

Forza Juve

 

[almaster]

My best regards to all Laziofans !
Nedved! I also think that Lazio now needs some refreshings by attracting youngsters Italians having on mind that we will have a pretty lots of games to play in the following season and to play them suitably without any big or small mistakes. Moreover just think over the fact that Italian National has only three our members whereas Juve gives 7! By the way I don't understand why Zoff didn't call Simone , isn't he a good enough striker ?!

 

[svennis]

Vito Corlenone you see everything in black and white but that´s not how the real picture looks like.

Juve has an iron grip on the domestic transfer market and only big bucks can dent it. Look Zanchi went to Juventus but he could have gone to Lazio - if Lazio would have paid Udine maybe 1.5x or 2x what Juve paid .. now the question is if it´s worth it ??

I think that what Parma is doing is smart .. they have aquired a big part of Napoli and they keep building connections with other clubs .. this is the future if you want to make it in Serie A.

My biggest wish is to see Lazio move more on the domestic market and build a web of connections - the only way of doing this is by signing young talents and having them play in Serie A. I think that Lazio should move on Napoli and maybe Vicenza or Sampa and start some sort of symbiosis where Lazio would supply some talents to the team in exchange it would be easier for Lazio to buy talents from Sampa etc .. I know we have good relationships with Inter and Parma and that´s great but from those teams we can´t get any real bargains

 

[Glen]

Svennis; you're partly right that we have by far the strongest ties to the other teams, but it's not true that You will have to pay more. Juve generally pays well for the talents we buy and that's just one of the reasons why other Italian clubs want's to deal with us. We paid more than Lazio wanted to with Paramatti and at the same time made arrangements concerning 3 youth players.
Juventus is doing all it can to create a monster Primavera side as well- while I don't see Lazio trying too hard in that aspect.

Anyway- You're completely right on the symbiosis part I think. It's invaluable, but the reason we have this "irongrip" is because of effort and desire to sign many youngsters + tradition for doing so + the power of being one of the traditionally great teams.
It's a long process, but the first step for Lazio ought to be developing the Primavera side. It's no coincidence that Juventus and Milan might very well meet in this years final, while every other "Big 7 team" is gone.

Ciao.

 

[aquila]

Glen, when you say "Lazio ought to be developing the Primavera side", do you mean buying young players and then field them in the youth team, like Juventus do? Or dou you mean choose young local players and then bring them to the youth team, like Lazio do?
Glen, please, can you name a product of the Juventus youth team who has made it to Serie A top football? And can you name a Turin player who grew up at Juventus? Take Maresca for example. He's a Sardinian player who joined an English team. Then Juventus bought him. Do you consider him a product of the Juventus' Primavera side, like Alessandro Nesta for Lazio? Also it must be said that Lazio youth team has only Italian players, while other teams have foreign players.

As for the Juventus' web amongst Italian football, Moggi has now linked also Napoli, whose general manager is Moggi's godson, and whose transfer market advisor is no less than Alessandro Moggi, son of the Godfather! Also Torino fans have done a sit-in because Torino's new director is a close friend of Moggi.

FORZA LAZIO

 

[Kazema]

This really has nothing to do with Juve or anything, really, just a question that's been on my mind for a while. The name Gionatha, I assume is Jonathan in Italian. I've seen it spelled so many different ways. In particular for Gionatha Spinesi. I've seen his name spelled Gionata, Giontatha, Gionthana, Giothana, Jonatan, and Jonathan. Is it that it can be spelled different ways or is everyone just having trouble typing? It's news sites and I've seen RAI spell his name different ways in different games, mainly Gionata or Jonatan. Or do they use an 'h'? I don't know. This post is pretty pointless but I'd like an answer anyway . It just came up because someone mentioned Gionata Bacchini. Is his name spelled different in different places too?

 

[Vito-Corleone]

very interesting information there quila. Moggi also worked in Napoli a few years back (the Maradona era) before moving to Roma and than Juve.

Svennis, there are still good young talents there in Italy that can be purchasd. I don't see Lazio going after them.

Forza Juve

 

[Glen]

Aquila; I'm not going to say that Juve is the greatest at creating talents themselves because that's just not the way they operate.
As you say we buy (or get options) on promising players when they're 15-20 years old. In the last two years Juve has been more agressive than ever in that respect and it's a new trend I like alot. It stems from the obvious fact that other teams than Juve and Milan are getting very powerfull economically, and thus it's no longer possible to simply prize the best players off to Turin. We need to get them while they're young.
Juventus has a grand total of 17 Italian youth International players (Primavera or younger), and I don't know how many of those who's truly home grown. I would suspect only a few. But the point is that they get a whiff of the athmosphere at a big club, and the best of them get to train with the serie A squad- and the best of those can move on to a serie A carrier at Juve or elsewhere. If we can't use them- they'll be used to "indepth" other teams instead so we can get their best players later on.
Having the best (or consistently one of the best) youth sides, creates the image of a great club to youngsters at all other Italian clubs, and thus it becomes more prestigious to join Juve than most other clubs.
It's a positive cyclus having strong youth teams, and if I were a Lazio official I would go out and try to obtain some of the U-15 to U-19 players from minor teams (like Juve did with U-18 playmaker Brivio from Rimini- 17 years old).
I doens't really matter if all the promising players become Lazio stars, but the club itself will gain prestigue among the upcoming talented youngsters, and Lazio can help developing Italian talents. Like You said Juve is not renowned for actully promoting many of our players to the senior squad, but many of those players went on to play with other serie A sides with great success. It's a new strategy of Juve's to buy SO many talented youngsters, because they want to rival Ajax, Barcelona and Man. Uniteds renowned status as talent groomers.
It's cheaper and the players coming from the youth ranks are loyal to the club.
You ask me to name players who actually made it and I admit that's hard. Sartor was believed to be a fantastic prospect, but after he broke his leg at 18 he was never the same again (used to captain the Primavera and U-18 national side). He's not a star now, but still a product of ours. The last player I can recall to have gone all the way from Juve's youth sides- going away on loan- and coming back to the seniors is Padovano.

But our major contribution has been to other teams. I seem to remember Fiore being a Juve player once, but I'm certain about Binotto, Camaratta, Perrotta and De Sanctis to name few. Mind you that I only know a little about past players of our youth sides, as most of my informations have been obtained in the last 18 months through the net.
I do know however that Juventus is the team that has provided the highest number of players to serie A this season. I don't recall the number or where it was mentioned, but it's more than likely that it's true.

Finally- what I said was not an attempt to put down Lazio. Cragnotti has done a splendid job so far, but in my opinion there are many benefits to developing the youth sector. If Lazio starts going there as well, I will be worried .

Btw. Kazema; Do you know who obtained first buying rights for Spinesi at the same time as negotiating first rights to Cassano ?
I think you do now .

Ciao.

[This message has been edited by Glen (edited 03-06-2000).]

 

[aquila]

We have always to remember the special status of S.S. Lazio, that's of being a public company, I mean. And one of the main goals (or the only goal?) of a public company is to make money. Now a public company that is at the same time a football club makes money through a series of means, one of which is the increase of the shares' price. To do that, the shares must have kind of appeal, in other words the football club must show to have a very good prospective in the future, a short term future, because the people who buy shares want to make money as soon as possible. And a football club need established players to achieve immediate success.

That's why Cragnotti are looking for Vieri, Rivaldo, Crespo, Peruzzi and the likes of them. In the same time, it's important for the club to have a good youth team for at least two reasons, one regarding Lazio as a public company, the other regarding the football side:
1) the young players growing up at Lazio cost nothing and if they become star players, the club will have them at no expense.
2) the young players growing up at Lazio are supposed to have an extra loyalty to the club, take Nesta for example.

That's why Cragnotti has said that he expects more from the Lazio youth team. He knows that Lazio have evrything to gain, by having a strong youth team. Can you imagine the fee Lazio would have spent to buy such an excellent defender like Alessandro Nesta? Instead he's cost nothing.

Glen, as far as I know, Juventus bought Luigi Sartor from Padova and Morgan De Sanctis from Pescara, if I remember well. As for Stefano Fiore, I think his only spell with a big team has been at Parma, who bought him from Cosenza.

FORZA LAZIO

 

[Glen]

Hi there Aquila .

You're right on the special situation concernig Lazio and the stockmarket I think.
There's another peculiarity about it as well though. Lazio is on the rise and has been ever since Cragnotti took over. No matter how you look at it Lazio has been the number one team in the world -Europe at least- (I DON'T KNOW ABOUT CORINTHIANS ZE !! ) over the last year and a half.
Still Lazio is not a team of tradition like it's main competitors. It hasn't had the chance to establish a firm foundation financially and organization wise before, and I can imagine that it's hard to compeete with Juve and Milan especially in Italy.
Cragnotti then has the opportunity to buy players who can help developing his brand in other countries, and THAT is the reason why Rivaldo is still a hot target. I'm sure at least svennis will agree with me when I say that even if you keep Veron there are so many more functional ways to purchase players than buying an extremely expensive superstar when you already have one for that position. I can thorougly understand Cragnotti's reasons for doing this, as he's taking a great risk right now in order to set Lazio up for success permanently.
I read last week that Cragnotti was preparing a new emission for the current stockholders, in which they would be able to buy 3 shares for every 7 they currently own.
The sole reason for this is that Cragnotti needs money to finance the building of next seasons Lazio AND ensure that Lazio has available funds to cover the running costs, because the club has been losing tons of money since Cragnotti took over.
That doens't matter if Lazio can find new sources of income and remain succesfull on the field, because then, in course of a few years, Lazio will have balanced accounts and the organization of a real powerhouse club.
But as those areas have yet to be developed (Brazilian market for Cirio for instance- and a wider possibility of world wide merchandicing), buying only superstars is a risky, but effective way of promoting the brand.
I just don't see why this would interfere with taking more interest in the youth sector. No matter how you look at it having strong youth teams is proffitable.

Concerning Sartor and De Sanctis; You may be right. I'm referring to stuff I heard from the Juve mailing list and the guy giving the information is usually very well informed and lives in Turin, but I can't be adamant about it.

Ciao.