[Anomander Rake]

Yes, If Italy had the same defence as in 2000, Holland would have hardly have had a chance to score one goal, let alone three. I'd love to see the coach who would win or even draw that game in 2000 with Materazzi and Barzagli.

 

[Primo]

We leaked more goals in one match than the entire World Cup combined! Wow, to see Panucci playing cb for the Azzurri in 2008 was surreal. And he actually stabilized the situation! We looked old. Nevertheless, maybe we can pull one out vs. Romania. DeRossi. :thumbsup:

 

[Seneca]

Italy were in 10 after Zambrotta had been sent off early, in defence NESTA, CANNAVARO and MALDINI were ridiculous, Toldo was god, and I have never seen a team as completely dominated and outplayed as Italy were. It was - to be plain - extremely unfair, that Italy moved on.

You apparently belive that winning is genius in itself. That game had to do with nothing but supreme defenders, sacrifice and luck.

yes, yesterday's game vs holland was like a rematch of euro2000. if we had been redcarded yesterday we would not have lost 3-0.

ofcourse winning major tournaments is genius. otherwise everybody won. a part of being a genius is adjusting to the circumstances to bring out the best of your team and to close down the opponent as affectively as possible. excuses like "but we played exacly the same in the qualifiers and we were great" are only for average coaches/players/people. thats why italy is still the best team in the world - we have intelligence. btw, i even think donadoni has intelligence and the 3-0 was just kinda meant to be ... there are mystical forces around.

the coach has to be a magician.
there's one golden rule: everythang taht COULD go wrong, ALWAYS goes wrong.

 

[Glen]

You MUST have your username changed.... Seneca. It disturbs me no end.

 

[Anomander Rake]

So Domenech must be genius, too, after all it took a mystical conspiracy of Materazzi, Trezeguet, Zidane and the stars of the zodiac to knock out France in the final.

 

[Seneca]

You MUST have your username changed.... Seneca. It disturbs me no end.

why does it disturb you?

 

[Seneca]

So Domenech must be genius, too, after all it took a mystical conspiracy of Materazzi, Trezeguet, Zidane and the stars of the zodiac to knock out France in the final.

no zodiac. zodiac is not magic.
btw, domenech is a very gifted magician. it was no coincidence that italy (lippi) met france in wc final 2006.

 

[Anomander Rake]

Please tell me you were joking, too...

 

[Seneca]

Please tell me you were joking, too...

not joking.
not higher magic, just zodiac is not magic. sorry about that. just simple magic. actually the simpliest truths are the hardest ones to understand.

 

[JuveGER]

Well, Italy can still go through. A win against Romania is a must. And if France doesn't beat the Netherlands (which I doubt now) Italy is second and a draw against France is enough to qualify.

I just watched the goals again and the last two were easily avoidable. The Dutch looked good scoring them, but I think they were more gifts by the Italians. Snejider scores with 4(!) Italians in the box with 3 of them marking no one and Di Natale a step too late. I also question Buffon coming out there. That would have been a hard angle for Snejider to score with Buffon on the line. At the third goal 3 players are in the box marking no one with vanB having a free header. Plus, both goals happened after Italian set pieces. That's just amateurish and should not happen.

In attack there was no link-up play at all with Pirlo having too many defensive duties and the full-backs being quiet. Grosso has to start. He has pace, can beat his man and is dangerous. Di Natale and Camoranesi were barely involved in attack and couldn't feed Toni with decent service. Toni had to drop deep to get the ball which is ridiculous. Bring in De Rossi for Ambrosini and let him and Gattuso do the defensive work to allow Pirlo more freedom. Bring in Chiellini for Matrix who is just terrible. And start Grosso. I'd give the attack another chance.

We will now see what character this team has.

 

[amyaaf]

Donadoni is to be blamed yes, but not as most are blamming him. I would blame him for starting Panucci in the RB because he was giving nothing (I'm pretty sure that on what's left of the tournament we won't see that one), and for playing with Gattuso and Ambrossini, with Pirlo attached in the middle just in front of the defenders, playing like a pure DM. And that's it. I would have fielded the same defense, even knowing all that there is to know about both of them, those are the guys I trust the most.

And please, saying Capello or Lippi wouldn't have done the same mistakes...just give Capello and Lippi the italian NT without Totti, Nesta, and Cannavaro, with no WC defender (Chiellini and Gamberini are good, but not WC), and with the best team in Italy just fielding one italian (that is totally off form), while the likes of Juventus and Milan (that were the teams that gave more players to the NT last WC) are having mediocre/crappy seasons and with important players going through slumps. I really would have loved to see how Lippi or Capello would have handled that.

And last but not least, FIFA has to make the offside rule more clear. It's so free for interpretation, it's ridiculous.

 

[Osman]

Non of the players Juve contributed to the NT are in a slump whatsover. Camo and Buffon have been great for us, and Ale and Chiellini have had the best seasons of their career.

Milans players on the other hand...

 

[amyaaf]

Non of the players Juve contributed to the NT are in a slump whatsover. Camo and Buffon have been great for us, and Ale and Chiellini have had the best seasons of their career.

Milans players on the other hand...

I'm certainly not going to defend Milan players (maybe just Ambrossini, I retain Italy should play him and not Gattuso), but I just don't feel Juve was all that great this season, they reached the 3rd place mostly because that was the only thing they were aiming for, Camoranessi started lighting up in the second half, same goes for DP, Buffon is Buffon (though yesterday he had a bit of a Dida/Kalac/Milan kepper, he didn't seem as secure as usual) and Chiellini is good but not (yet) WC, in fact a better Juve would have contributed with 4 Juventus players in the starting line up.

 

[Vinman]

Well he sees the trainings... Donadoni must see something in them to have played such a team, but Im not sure... maybe he had this team in mind for a long time, but will now have to change.

thats the problem...he can watch all the training sessions in the world, but it makes no difference because he's inept

Di Natale played well, but if Donadoni had any sense he'd realise by now that the stage is set for Antonio Cassano to save the country. Yes, I have THAT much faith in him.

yes...its time to roll the proverbial dice...we've got nothing to lose

 

[Osman]

No, you are a dead wrong. Juve were not great and just a 3rd place team that struggled at times, but that has NOTHING to do with these 4 players and EVERYTHING to do with the beyond average teammates they had.

We were half dead when Camo was injured, and he was our most vital player to tick in our basic game everytime he played (has the highest ratings of the midfielders in the league, and we would challenged for sure if he wasnt injured so long). Our Defence was bad and Chiellini was the only one who did his individual work exceptionally and one of the better CBs in the league. Buffon saved this crap defence weekly and earned us alot of points. Del Piero carried our team when Camo was out and was our best player this season, and incidently if you didnt notice, capocannoieri and had one of the best seasons in his career.

Any notion of any of the above having a slump and being compared to the subpar players of Milan is delusional(except Ambro who was decent).

They did their job individually and were our top players and carried the team as best as they can, which is alot. Juve in general not being dazzling has alot to do with the rest of the squad being average, and nothing to do with the above players.

 

[amyaaf]

You know what, I'm going to leave it like that, I really had no intentions to make it a club argument at first, and I really don't want to do so now. Just that there have been several factors that haven't been in Donadoni's side since he became the azzurri coach, apart from some tactical screw ups he has made. But not everything is to be blamed on him.

 

[Osman]

Was just correcting you on one aspect of that post where you standing up for Donadoni.

You might be right in the other things you mentionned, mitigating factors and such, but you cant excuse him by saying the Juve players have made it harder for him because they have been in a slump, when its the exact opposite. Based on that season, they are on a hot streak, especially a certain forward.

Its not a club argument, you are just wrong on your assessment on the Juve players. And I'm not saying the Milan players have had a subpar because they are a rival team, but because they as you know has been so quite evidently.

 

[pirri]

lets just put this into perspective

buffon- world class
barzagli- under the radar crapness
matterazi-crap and old
zambrotta- former world class wingback...now a good wingback
panucci- wait..this is the same guy who started his proffesional career in 1989..
gattuso- might as well have robbie savage
pirlo- good but not a true dirving force unless he has support
ambrosini- the most uninspired midfielder on the planet and ageing
camoranesi-on his day good but never world class or close to that
di natale- a good player...nothing more nothing less
toni- needs service..and on the main stage has yet to do anything big

 

[amyaaf]

Was just correcting you on one aspect of that post where you standing up for Donadoni.

You might be right in the other things you mentionned, mitigating factors and such, but you cant excuse him by saying the Juve players have made it harder for him because they have been in a slump, when its the exact opposite. Based on that season, they are on a hot streak, especially a certain forward.

Its not a club argument, you are just wrong on your assessment on the Juve players. And I'm not saying the Milan players have had a subpar because they are a rival team, but because they as you know has been so quite evidently.

I wasn't just mentioning Juve players, in fact I didn't really singled out Juve players (the ones that are there are good), but as a whole Juventus was a mediocre team (at least when I compare it to the Juve teams I have seen in the last decade or so, and on a personal taste this Juve was way too mediocre for my liking) and that doesn't help the NT, as well as having a really crappy Milan (where I do single out the NT players performances and the performances of other players that weren't called up because of their lousy form) certainly doesn't make things better for the NT, specially considering these 2 teams were the spine of the WC winning team just 2 years ago.

 

[camelface]

too much talking done here. be quiet and watch the next game